How to restor Gauges?

[NORTH-SHORE(CANADA)]

Hi,
How could i take this gauge a part without broken them i whant to clean them up and restor them
This the original 1944 gauge on a C60L well i think

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

Hi Eric - to me the speedometer is fairly simple and I have restored some including a new decal for the face. However you need to know the mechanics of the speedometer to restore/repair it without damaging it.

I had a look at doing the gauges but gave that away as too hard. The problem with these are that you cannot remove the faces as they are riveted onto a sub-bracket, therefore not being able to remove the face you cannot get into the workings or replicate the face.

Now if you had stuck to the Ford you could have had the complete set along with the switch plates.

Bob

[NORTH-SHORE(CANADA)]

Hi Bob,

I just take with my partner and will do the Ford and The Chevy

And yes will take the Ford panel to

Now 2 more projet at home hop my wife will not kill me

[sth65pac]

Eric,

Being a late model CMP, Common Spares were employed, (EG Chev, Ford, Dodge, Jeep, GMC, Diamond etc) and these these instruments are Stewart Warner http://stewartwarner.com/ Note Impedence and/or resisitance must be known for each circuit, and its respective detector, as they vary from each truck circuit variety, BUT can be corrected. (Bob..... I am Keeping it simple) It mentions this on the S.W. website, with respect to fuel systems.

You are fortunate as you can get replacement parts from them OR New Old Stock which share commonality with many trucks. If they have a NSN you might trace that to New Old Stock or a Surplus set.

If the mechanism is ok behind the dial you have the task of repainting (or getting a repaint) done. The dial may be available from S.W.

If the mechanism is totally destroyed then S.W. may have that too, otherwise New Old Stock parts, again, may help.

(That is the Very Short version of a rather long winded answer).

Ian

[NORTH-SHORE(CANADA)]

Hi,
Most of the gauges is in a good condition but I have to test it to confirm and on the back of the gauges some said GM

[sth65pac]

Hmm,

well Bob & I have had a long discussion about this, there is a machine that can do the job, But they are few and far between.

Basically the stainless (or steel) ring around the instrument is rolled on (or, in some cases squeezed on) in the manufacture. The machine that undoes this process is owned by a select few.

If you need to get an instrument apart, you MAY find an aircraft instrument repairer, or a motorcycle instrument repairer, has the tool. I would enquire first, so that the instruments do not suffer any damage by someone trying to please your request to get the items apart.

When I was in the Navy, we used to use the tool to fix aircraft instruments, but someone threw the tool away as they were not used enough... (No comment on that).

The removal tool looks a bit like an old fashioned can-opener with a peg, instead of a cutter, which you prise under the edge of the clamp and then turn the handle, the ring around the outside is relieved from the edge of the instrument. A tricky machine, I have thought about trying to make one..

If I could get my hands on one, I would be a very busy fellow, they are a godsend as far as repairs go.

I have never done this, but if you were to carefully slice the retaining ring in half, you would be able to get teh instrument apart, but then you would have an obvious cut on the ring!

Ian

[NORTH-SHORE(CANADA)]

Hi,
How to remove the arrow

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

Hi Ian - all good advice. Until I can get my hands on one of these "can openers" a small screwdriver will suffice. Fortunately the "steel ring" as you describe it, I call it a bezel, is thin gauge metal and is easily bent. Just work with the screwdriver around the bezel where it contacts onto the housing and pry the metal away in small increments. Eventually that area will be straight enough to remove the bezel and glass. To replace simply use pliers to bent the metal back around the instrument.
Bob

[NORTH-SHORE(CANADA)]

Hi Bob,
That what i use a small screwdriver and it work well but now how to remouve the arrow

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

Hi Eric - just be careful and don't exert too much pressure on anything. To remove the needles (arrows) I grasp the needle shaft with a pair of pointed nosed pliers and then twist the needle backwards and forwards until it comes off the shaft. This is very delicate and I have twisted of several shafts as the needle was frozen onto it. When replacing, again grasp the shaft with the pliers, position the needle onto the shaft and gently tap it back on. You need to hold the shaft as the tapping may damage the shaft seat. I have replicated the speedometer face through another decal so that is available. Looking at your bravery has inspired me to re-visit the gauges.

Bob

[sth65pac]

Bob & everyonne else,

You can also make up a 'needle fork'. Get a conventional fork cut the two outer tynes off, and bend the two inner tynes very close together, allowing a small slot of about 1-2mm to exist between the two tynes.

Use a cheap, pressed sheet, flat tyned fork, is the best bet as it provides the most pressure on the inside of the needle on the shaft. Not Granny's heirloom silver forks with the rounded points.

Make these tynes so close, that you can only slide them around a shaft, then the circular part of the needle (mounting bit where the shaft goes through) can be used as a purchase point behind the needle.

When removing the needle, slide the fork behind the needle rest the tynes against the circular part in the centre, and pull vertically. It will save you twisting shafts..

Ian.

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

Hi Ian - Ada is out today so I'll hunt around for a fork. Re. pliers usage, I only use them to grasp the shaft, usually between the face plate mounting bracket and the magnetic drive. This way there is no pressure exerted on the needle shaft drive train and the needle callibration spring.

Bob

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by sth65pac

Use a cheap, pressed sheet, flat tyned fork, is the best bet as it provides the most pressure on the inside of the needle on the shaft. Not Granny's heirloom silver forks with the rounded points.

I wish you'd warned me earlier! I've gone and buggered Nan's best cutlery!

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

Hi all - I am having trouble getting the prongs close enough together.

Bob

[Keith Webb]

Originally Posted by Bob Moseley

Hi all - I am having trouble getting the prongs close enough together.

Bob

Bob, isn't that your best crow-lance?

[NORTH-SHORE(CANADA)]

Originally Posted by Bob Moseley

Hi all - I am having trouble getting the prongs close enough together.

Bob

Hi Bob,
What kind of guages you restoring with that one

[Tony Smith]

South Australia (and Vic) have 5'3" Broad Gauge.

[maple_leaf_eh]

Oh brother!

There are classic car restorers who have worked on this problem before. Maybe their forums will be more serious!

[Mike Kelly]

I've pulled apart various speedos .. series 1 Land rover, Jeep, Morris Commercial ... to remove the needle .. I use a pair of scissors .. I carefully place the tips beneath the needle , at its hub , apply upward levering pressure

The needle flies off with some force , and I've lost a couple of them as it flew off somewhere .

That's interesting about Stewart Warner ... the contemporary Jeep gauges look similar, but are different apparently. SW was a GM owned company I think ? A Jeep ammeter would suffice as it's a generic instrument . Fuel gauge would be tricky ... has to be matched to the Chevy sender unit .
Mike

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

Hi all and back on track Terry. I did some Google research on needle removal and surprisingly most of the advice was exactly as I do it. Grasp the needle with thumb and forefinger and gently twist. It was suggested that the needle be first rotated to its maximum speed stop but I overcome this by grasping the shaft with pointed nose pliers. To re-install simply place the needle on the shaft in its correct position and gently tap into place. Here again I use the pliers to minimise the concussion through the shaft drive train.

Bob

[Lynn Eades]

Jeep and Dodge Used Autolite instruments, not S.W. (the speedo was different) as I recall.

[sth65pac]

Lynn,

You are more right. I am surprised at how many companies are under an umbrella of their parent.

Autolite exists today, being Ford's spares maker. Whom is now Bendix, (part of Honeywell) some spares are made made under licence to AEG. The list goes on.

Finding the 'real' player is the hardest game of all.

Ian

[Mike Kelly]

Originally Posted by Bob Moseley

Grasp the needle with thumb and forefinger and gently twist. It was suggested that the needle be first rotated to its maximum speed stop but I overcome this by grasping the shaft with pointed nose pliers.

Bob

I cannot see how you could do that without damaging the needle .. It's very delicate will distort-twist out of shape easily with sideways pressure
Mike

[jim sewell]

New needles can be purchased for Chev retangular dashs from Bowtiebits .
bowtiebits @msn.com

Mike, did you end up obtaining some 1'' webbing as I have some available .
Regards
Jim S.

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

Hi Mike - I have never had a problem with the needle distorting, maybe I have just been lucky. Sometimes a needle is really stuck on the shaft so in that case I put a drop of RP7 or the like into the tiny hole on top of the needle and let it soak for a while. BTW did you ever find your flying needles.

Bob

[Mike Kelly]

Originally Posted by jim sewell

Mike, did you end up obtaining some 1'' webbing as I have some available .
Regards
Jim S.

hi Jim

Yes , I discovered I can buy a 8 metre length at the local Horse equipment shop.. they sell lunge reins ( whatever that is ), made from 1" cotton ( chinese made I suspect ) webbing . It is around 2mm thick as opposed to the genuine stuff which is 3 mm ..and it's a very dark green, but its better than nothing .

Out of interest: What is the webbing you have there ? Is it the lighter khaki colour and what length ? I am interested in it, PM me . The local disposals shop has just about run out of the genuine WW2 era webbing items .. I spotted some 1944 dated compass pouches NOS, and a few of the map holders 1943 dated - they told me the WW2 era stock has just about dried up..after 30 years of selling this stuff ..seems like the end is near .

Mike

[Mike Kelly]

Originally Posted by Bob Moseley

BTW did you ever find your flying needles.

Bob

No, never did find em .. annoying .

[Ian Fawbert]

Hi guys,

I`m in the middle of doing the guagres for my jeep and being the round type, i thought i would chime in on a few things i have learnt/done seen.

Lynn, the jeeps did use Stewart Warner guages. As a rule of thumb, Willys used Autolite, Ford used SW (with some mixes during contracts). The speedo as you correctly said was different in some cases, ranging from SW, Autolite, King Seeley and Motometer- all depending on model and year of MB or GPW and all with different features- needle shape, milage increments, face shape, text, fonts. Military AC guages in jeeps are non factory fitted- they are replacements.

Mike, as for the needles i know exactly what you mean about them flying off! I lost the needle for my early GPW's speedo- the early GPW speedo's are hard enough to find so getting another needle would have been a nightmare! I ended up finding it at the bottom of a tub of scrap steel in the corner of the shed under the bench. It took me a good 1 1/2 hours to find it!

In regards to getting the bezel off, i made a small tool which looks kind of like a can opener. I find its not a damaging to the bezel as a screwdriver was. As a tip, i also start at the bottom of the guage and work my way up/around- you dont need to go all the way round to get the bezel off, so when abit over half way it should pop/slide off. Thus when you put it back on, any pry marks are located at the bottom where they are harder to see/not as visible.

In regards to removing faces which are riveted on, i used a dremel (or similar small grinder) to remove the back of the rivet. Then it can be pushed out and face taken off. Mr faces are being done at the moment and when finished i will just pop the rivets back in and i intend to use some glue type substance on the back to hold them in place/stop them falling out and the face coming loose.


Hope this helps,
Cheers,
Ian.

[Alex Blair (RIP)]

Originally Posted by Ian Fawbert

Hi guys,

I`m in the middle of doing the guagres for my jeep and being the round type, i thought i would chime in on a few things i have learnt/done seen.

Lynn, the jeeps did use Stewart Warner guages. As a rule of thumb, Willys used Autolite, Ford used SW (with some mixes during contracts). The speedo as you correctly said was different in some cases, ranging from SW, Autolite, King Seeley and Motometer- all depending on model and year of MB or GPW and all with different features- needle shape, milage increments, face shape, text, fonts. Military AC guages in jeeps are non factory fitted- they are replacements.

Mike, as for the needles i know exactly what you mean about them flying off! I lost the needle for my early GPW's speedo- the early GPW speedo's are hard enough to find so getting another needle would have been a nightmare! I ended up finding it at the bottom of a tub of scrap steel in the corner of the shed under the bench. It took me a good 1 1/2 hours to find it!

In regards to getting the bezel off, i made a small tool which looks kind of like a can opener. I find its not a damaging to the bezel as a screwdriver was. As a tip, i also start at the bottom of the guage and work my way up/around- you dont need to go all the way round to get the bezel off, so when abit over half way it should pop/slide off. Thus when you put it back on, any pry marks are located at the bottom where they are harder to see/not as visible.

In regards to removing faces which are riveted on, i used a dremel (or similar small grinder) to remove the back of the rivet. Then it can be pushed out and face taken off. Mr faces are being done at the moment and when finished i will just pop the rivets back in and i intend to use some glue type substance on the back to hold them in place/stop them falling out and the face coming loose.


Hope this helps,
Cheers,
Ian.

Ian..
Use this glue,if you can get it...
Sticks anything to anything..forever..
Sticks like camel crap to a prayer rug..
http://www.gorillaglue.com/glues.aspx

[Ian Fawbert]

Hi Alex,

Thanks for that. I`ll have a look around and see what i can get- it does look like good stuff. I noticed they dont sell out of the US/Canada or UK though... maybe time for an email!

Cheers,
Ian