Another C60L Restoration

[Mike Kelly]

This one may fit the bill ..but its in S.A.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/metal-lat...item20e5207996

[Tony Mathers]

Mike lovely photos, love the interior shots especially, I like the fact that they are named for the model, which is what I have lacked.
I already checked out the SA lathe... a bit much and a bit too far... and even though it may be the right size, I want something smaller for my truck. (I still need to carry hay, building materials and firewood, etc, so everything must be easily demountable)

Tony your photos don't turn me on just as much sorry.... but I do feel the pain.

I will first see how the gearbox likes the molasses, but maybe get a spare just in case.

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Tony Mathers

I needed a bumper, and I got this perfectly straight and only a little bit rustic marvel.

It's times like this I remember the two complete Chev bumper assemblies I tried to save from the scrappy last year. Having slaved in 40 degree heat with a crook back to remove the rusty bolts, I dragged them up a steep hill and hid them behind a tree for collection next day with a trailer. When I got there at 8 AM the bastard had somehow sniffed them out and grabbed them with his excavator. They were already in the crush bin, along with a jeep trailer I'd asked him to put aside.

[Tony Mathers]

Tony
That's very very sad, I hope you put sugar in his fuel tank......

[Tony Wheeler]

Unfortunately not Tony, I wanted to kill the bastard at the time but I was only on the property under the owner's suffrance, and since he hired the prick I couldn't even abuse him. I'd been pleading for months to get access but I was only allowed in 24 hours ahead of the scrappy. A lot of good parts went in the bin through lack of time to remove them from wrecks.

[Mike Cecil]

Couple of point to note:

The canvas side curtain bag looks like it is for a Ford (used pegs, not a bar) and for late pattern Australian side curtains for de-mountable '44 pattern doors. Check the depth of the bag (front to back) and see if the top closes with a set of side curtains with the longer door mounts for the steel doors. The small pocket on the front is for the driver's handbook, etc. Fords with standard cabs with steel doors did not use side curtain bags: they used wooden floor mounts and a rotating bar mounted about half way up the back panel in the centre.

As indicated in Mike's posted images, the Aust CMP Machinery trucks came in something like 20 different configurations of machinery and purpose. Each type was suffixed with a different letter, so a 'Truck, 3 ton, Machinery (Aust)' would have a letter suffix, such as 'Truck 3 ton Machinery, K, (Aust)' indicating a certain combination of tools, machinery, and benches (so, more than just the fixed machinery). So, if you are going to equip the vehicle with machinery, etc, then you'll need to choose which configuration you want to build (unless the machinery body has some obvious pointers as to what it was originally?)

The steel log book holder originally had a shaped, leather top flap closure.

The wide back seat, as Keith pointed out, is a late pattern Australian seat and common to both Ford and Chev (but 'invented' by GM-H at Woodville). More comfortable than the standard, but the term is, of course, relative!! Comfort and long distance Blitz driving are like combining 'military' and 'intelligence'!

The body was a nice find. Was it 'local', maybe Elphinstone? I think I recognise it! These were generally built at the GM-H Special Body Plant at Fisherman's Bend, Melbourne. This plant afixed a large brass plate to the lower wooden coaming on the rear, but they are mostly long gone. The bodies were migrated forward to 2-1/2 ton Studebaker US-6 6x6, then later to the 5-ton International F1 6x6 (often mistakenly called a 'Mk.5').

Nice truck. Will look good, and you are not wasting any time, that's for sure!

Mike

[Tony Mathers]

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

Couple of point to note:

The canvas side curtain bag looks like it is for a Ford (used pegs, not a bar) and for late pattern Australian side curtains for de-mountable '44 pattern doors. Check the depth of the bag (front to back) and see if the top closes with a set of side curtains with the longer door mounts for the steel doors. The small pocket on the front is for the driver's handbook, etc. Fords with standard cabs with steel doors did not use side curtain bags: they used wooden floor mounts and a rotating bar mounted about half way up the back panel in the centre.

Thanks for that, I was thinking of using it only as a pattern anyway, but now I know it has value to ford blitz owners, I may be able to swap it for other parts.

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

As indicated in Mike's posted images, the Aust CMP Machinery trucks came in something like 20 different configurations of machinery and purpose. Each type was suffixed with a different letter, so a 'Truck, 3 ton, Machinery (Aust)' would have a letter suffix, such as 'Truck 3 ton Machinery, K, (Aust)' indicating a certain combination of tools, machinery, and benches (so, more than just the fixed machinery). So, if you are going to equip the vehicle with machinery, etc, then you'll need to choose which configuration you want to build (unless the machinery body has some obvious pointers as to what it was originally?)

I don't suppose you have a list of Australian workshop configurations? I have the Bellona Handbook 3, which lists the English / Canadian configurations, is it the same?

I think it may be a fitters truck, because the ladder fitting was on the side. But that is a uneducated guess.
Before I replace the floor, I had better map out all the empty bolt holes, but I suspect when they replaced the floor to fit it to the Inter F1 all the heavy machinery got shuffled / replaced.

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

The steel log book holder originally had a shaped, leather top flap closure.

The photo doesn't show it to well, but the flap is still there.

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

The body was a nice find. Was it 'local', maybe Elphinstone? I think I recognise it!

A full 10 points for that answer..

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

These were generally built at the GM-H Special Body Plant at Fisherman's Bend, Melbourne. This plant afixed a large brass plate to the lower wooden coaming on the rear, but they are mostly long gone. The bodies were migrated forward to 2-1/2 ton Studebaker US-6 6x6, then later to the 5-ton International F1 6x6 (often mistakenly called a 'Mk.5').
Mike

Brass plate is long gone, but this body spent time on the blitz and the inter F1, I don't think it was on a Studebaker as the wheel well hole isn't big enough. (going by the one at Bandiana)


Thanks, all this is great information (But I need lots more) sorry if I am too greedy.

[Keith Webb]

Thanks for that, I was thinking of using it only as a pattern anyway, but now I know it has value to ford blitz owners, I may be able to swap it for other parts.

Like a Chev gearbox?

[Mike Cecil]

The canvas side curtain bag: it's only of value to Ford Blitz owners who have 44 pattern Aust cabs with canvas doors.

Mind you, that sounds like a worthy trade, Keith: Chevie boat anchor for magnificent but slightly delicate Ford canvas product.....

I'd be surprised if the body had not spent some time on a Studebaker. The Studebaker US6 was the deployable truck type for overseas service from 1959 through to the intro of the 2 1/2 ton International No.1 Mk.3 in the mid-1960s. The full suite of required configurations were built onto the Studebaker, including the workshops. By the time the 6x6 Inter F1 came along, the only workshops still in service were mostly on Studebakers. It is possible it bypassed this phase, but I think the odds are against it.

In any event, I'm really glad it is now at a good home and getting some TLC: it spent way too long behind the shed in the weather (along with a rare pump/water purifier trailer body). The owner simply had no room to get them under cover.

Mike C

[Tony Mathers]

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

The canvas side curtain bag: it's only of value to Ford Blitz owners who have 44 pattern Aust cabs with canvas doors.

Mind you, that sounds like a worthy trade, Keith: Chevie boat anchor for magnificent but slightly delicate Ford canvas product.....

I am visiting Keith this afternoon...

I'd be surprised if the body had not spent some time on a Studebaker. The Studebaker US6 was the deployable truck type for overseas service from 1959 through to the intro of the 2 1/2 ton International No.1 Mk.3 in the mid-1960s. The full suite of required configurations were built onto the Studebaker, including the workshops. By the time the 6x6 Inter F1 came along, the only workshops still in service were mostly on Studebakers. It is possible it bypassed this phase, but I think the odds are against it.

You may be right but the wheel hole is only big enough for one wheel, the Studebaker workshop at Bandiana had a wheel well big enough for both wheels.

In any event, I'm really glad it is now at a good home and getting some TLC: it spent way too long behind the shed in the weather (along with a rare pump/water purifier trailer body). The owner simply had no room to get them under cover.

The rare pump/water purifier trailer body is still outside along with a WWII generator trailer that I just don't have the time (or money) to restore. (I was offered it)

[Mike Cecil]

If the wheel well is only one wheel wide, it didn't spend time of a 6x6 F1 either, so must have been sold off prior to, or soon after the change over to the Studebaker in 59-60. (and they were not mounted on 4x4 2 1/2 ton Mk.3)

My guess is it was sold originally on a Blitz, but the joker who purchased it wanted another body type (tray?) so ditched the workshop body. Good that you will not have to alter it back to the blitz configuration, and it also means the bolt holes in the floor should align with a given Blitz WW2 machinery type.

Mike C

[Tony Mathers]

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

If the wheel well is only one wheel wide, it didn't spend time of a 6x6 F1 either, so must have been sold off prior to, or soon after the change over to the Studebaker in 59-60. (and they were not mounted on 4x4 2 1/2 ton Mk.3)

My guess is it was sold originally on a Blitz, but the joker who purchased it wanted another body type (tray?) so ditched the workshop body. Good that you will not have to alter it back to the blitz configuration, and it also means the bolt holes in the floor should align with a given Blitz WW2 machinery type.

Mike C

The wheel well cavity is under the floor boards and has a brace welded in, its dimensions are easily recognizable as the original main bearers are still there and only one is shortened to fit the wheel well and ones ether side are full length and the original front and back of a blitz wheel well. A Studebaker would have needed 2 or more bearers cut.
It still has Vietnam era signage, electrical switch board, power points and wiring. I don't think the Inter F1 needed wheel wells so they were cut out and boarded over. The spare wheel cavity behind the driver has been replaced by a extra section of wire netting, using more modern fittings, but the top weld has broken where it was joined to the original wire netted side.

[Tony Mathers]

I went out and took some more photos of the tray - funny how you never have the photo you need...



brace on shortened main bearer under floor



Original fittings



New style fitting on extension to cover old spare wheel bay.



1960's / 70's switchboard



Tyre pressure sign, one of two on each side (twin axles) . Note the three layers of paints, bottom layer is wwii, then lighter and lighter.

[Mike Kelly]

Tony

This link may be of assistance to you re: searching for equipment for your vehicle

http://www.lathes.co.uk/australian/

Mike

[Tony Mathers]

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly

Tony

This link may be of assistance to you re: searching for equipment for your vehicle

http://www.lathes.co.uk/australian/

Mike

Yes I went there last night looking for the Macson, very disappointed to not find it... I was hoping they did smaller models.

[Mike Cecil]

Well, you learn something new everyday. I stand corrected.

An F1 'mount' it is.

Mike

[Mike Kelly]

Originally Posted by Tony Mathers

Yes I went there last night looking for the Macson, very disappointed to not find it... I was hoping they did smaller models.

Tony

The services here did also use QUALOS and MARS and a few other Aust. brands as well during WW2 . I have a New Visby lathe - these were built by Purcell in Sydney during wartime for essential work. Its a pretty rough machine in some respects , the casting looks like a contemporary Asian made low end of the market item ( rough ) but that sort of thing didnt matter during the war .

[Tony Mathers]

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly

Tony

The services here did also use QUALOS and MARS and a few other Aust. brands as well during WW2 . I have a New Visby lathe - these were built by Purcell in Sydney during wartime for essential work. Its a pretty rough machine in some respects , the casting looks like a contemporary Asian made low end of the market item ( rough ) but that sort of thing didnt matter during the war .

Would they have used older English lathes? such as this:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/301187357...84.m1436.l2649

Its the right price and very close to home.

[Mike Kelly]

Originally Posted by Tony Mathers

Would they have used older English lathes? such as this:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/301187357...84.m1436.l2649

Its the right price and very close to home.

Tony

Thats a odd ball machine not suited to your needs .

The 2nd hand market is flooded with old lathes at the moment , mainly because over the past 20 years or so, many many small engineering businesses , and some large ones too ( like QANTAS workshops ) , have closed down. If you are patient, the right machine will come along ,I am sure . Also, many of the guys who bought lathes as a hobby in the 1950's and 60's or earlier, are falling off the perch, the family usually has nil interest , so they sell .

This forum is a great place to learn about it all.

http://www.woodworkforums.com/f65/

Jacques, who frequents this MLU and the above forums , is restoring a F15A. He Owns a old Qualos lathe in very good shape .

[Mike Kelly]

A few adverts . The Macson ad is pre war but thats the sort of machine for you

BTW quite a few older lathes have Govt. munitions factory badges on them, the numbers of lathes used in these factories must have been high . Mike

[Mike Kelly]

Originally Posted by Tony Mathers

Would they have used older English lathes? such as this:

.

If you study those pics I posted , everything in those machinery bodies seems to be nice and new , the machinery isn't old and dirty . I'd say the Govt. ordered and purchased brand new locally made equipment for those machinery bodies at the time.

Some new machinery was imported during the war, but we were mostly self reliant . Reading the GMH WAR RECORD is an eye opener , tooling was in critically short supply and GMH was dragging old lathes out of rubbish tips and re conditioning them .

[Matt Austin]

G'day folks,

This piqued my interest...

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

...The body was a nice find. Was it 'local', maybe Elphinstone? I think I recognise it! These were generally built at the GM-H Special Body Plant at Fisherman's Bend, Melbourne. This plant afixed a large brass plate to the lower wooden coaming on the rear, but they are mostly long gone...

Mike

My International K5 has such a plate. I removed it, cleaned it up, (as it was coated in flaked white paint) and primed it in grey, for now. I don't know if they're easy to find, but it could be replicated.

Attached is a pic, which may be of some interest.

Cheers,
Matt

[Tony Mathers]

Thanks Mike I will be patient..... maybe

I have owned a copy of Armed and ready. Industrial development and Defence of Australia, 1900-1945 since it was published and I remember reading the trials and tribulations of trying to get enough machine tools during wartime.

Hence my query about that old English lathe.


Matt that plate looks awesome.... dammm something else I have to find.

[Tony Mathers]

I did manage to visit Keith last night, and as well as a few lovely trinkets, I got a lovely front for my truck with working and complete air vents as well as the bottom half of a gearbox.
Looking at the newly acquired gearbox made me realize my original gearbox had a extra growth hanging out the side.




Can anyone tell me what it is?

[Lynn Eades]

You are referring to the PTO ?(power take off unit)

[Tony Mathers]

Originally Posted by Lynn Eades

You are referring to the PTO ?(power take off unit)

Ok yes probably - what would it be connected to? this was a supply truck.

Thanks

[Mike Cecil]

Matt,

Yes, that is the plate I was referring to. Nice that you have it with your truck: a difficult item to find.

Mike C

[Tony Mathers]

After trying to work out from the AWM photos what the funny looking rack was at the back of all wartime workshop trucks, I was able to see for myself what they were at Bandiana. It held 8 annex poles 50x50x2100. After getting a quote for kiln dried hardwood (max of 45mm thick) $250 for the 8, I settled for green hardwood (45mm to 50mm thick) at $50. I ran them through the planer at work today to get them to the correct shape, then carefully stacked them so they dry slowly while the rest of the restoration happens....



The long skinny box behind the drivers seat holds the legs for the benches/drop sides. Does any one have a photo of one of these legs? they should be around 1200mm long and there probably would be 15 per truck. Unfortunately the Bandiana workshop trucks are missing their ones.

[Tony Mathers]

On the weekend I was able to get back to the blitz graveyard and finish cutting of the rear end I needed. It didn't look that good at first but I have been busy tidying up the pieces and it is starting to look like it belongs on a workshop truck. I will post more pictures soon to show the progress.


I was then able to convince my wife that I needed a spare part blitz at our place, but it turns out that the blitz I was slowly cannibalising for parts was about to be scrapped this week anyway.... So my timing was great and I now have another broken down rusty wreck at my place.

[Ryan]

Well done Tony, it's always a good feeling when you save something from going to scrap.