2011 at the Hammond Barn

[RHClarke]

It is 6oC and the snow is rapidly disappearing. The yard is a quagmire, so my plan to drive the HUP on the first day of the New Year got shelved. Instead I took up Bill's invitation to visit him in Greely, a small town south of Ottawa.
Finding the place was very easy; all I had to do was look for a CMP. Sure enough, I recognized a familiar vehicle outline and pulled into his yard.

Bill gave me the cook's tour of his CMP based snowplough and his workshop. Later, I will add photos showing how he took a CMP truck that had been converted to a forklift, and converted it to his snow removal machine.

Later on, we took a short drive in the local area and tried to speak to the owners of various military vehicles that we spotted from the road. We got no response but had a look at the vehicles anyway. A return visit will take place sometime soon and the results of the visit will be posted later.

Back at Bill's place we chatted about other CMP wrecks, including one with a built in winch set up. We had previously discussed this truck at Bob's place when Bill picked up his replacement axle. So, stay tuned as we prove the old adage" Time spent on recce is seldom wasted"!

[RHClarke]

Notice anything out of the ordinary with this "conversion"?
Photo 1 - The CMP as Bill bought it
Photo 2 - Stripped down
Photo 3 - Framing
Photo 4 - Cab
Photo 5 - Finished product

Thanks to Bill for providing these photos

[RHClarke]

Photo 1 - The broken axle
Photo 2 - Interesting "front" end

If I recall correctly, Bob knew about Bill's forklift. Maybe he can fill in some details?

[Phil Waterman]

Hi All

Congratulations on another fine year at Hammon Barn, thanks Bob for the concept and venue for a shared work environment. Now if I could just find a bunch of CMP nuts down here to share work space and projects.

Look forward to another fine year of entertainment.

Cheers Phil

[RHClarke]

Bob and I rolled out our CMPs this afternoon. The weather has changed for the colder so there is less mud to worry about. Bob's truck started on the very first crank, but the HUP took a little more time to fire up. After warming up for a few minutes, we headed up the road to Bob's house. Unfortunately, my engine wasn't running all that well.

Back at the barn, I checked the wires, plugs and dizzy. All seemed in order. On restart I got the same problem - the engine seemed to be missing resulting in rough acceleration. We did not check the timing as time was running out and I had to head for home.

So, given a 235 engine with a manual choke, what would cause it to idle nicely, but get rough when accelerating? Any thoughts?

[Yeo.NT]

From what information you have provided, this to me sounds either:

Timing - is either to advanced or retarded, or the vacuum/mechanical advance are not working properly

Carburation - The high-speed circuit or the accelerating pump circuit may be dirty or plugged


Neil

[Alex Blair (RIP)]

Originally Posted by Yeo.NT

From what information you have provided, this to me sounds either:

Timing - is either to advanced or retarded, or the vacuum/mechanical advance are not working properly

Carburation - The high-speed circuit or the accelerating pump circuit may be dirty or plugged


Neil

Neil..Can be a little or a lot of both and throw in some rotten gas from sitting around and it could fix up the problems.

[Bob Carriere]

Plugs were sooty but cleanable....... loss of power when throttled hit for accellaration..... almost to the point of stalling...which it did on occasions!!

Problem maybe with big boots and accidently hitting the dizzy while shifting or just plain getting on and off.

Gas.....Yes.... maybe old..... a few gallons fo fresh stuff may help..... with added Sta-Bill for safe measure.

It was running so smooth and accellareted well last time out a few months ago.

Timing will need to be checked..... and man do you have to be double jointed to do that.....even if half the sheet metal is missing it is still difficult to twist your head around to see the pointer and TDC.....

As we will need to disconnect the vacuum advance to tune up we will check the holding power of the vaccum advance diaphram.... or leaks on the way over to the carb.

Two solutions come to mind........ go underneath and once timed properly with the engine turned by hand until pointer is at TDC.... grind a notch in the flywheel where it meet with edge of flywheel housing.... always dark there and easier to see....although it becomes a two men job....

Second temporary solution....cut, fit and install a piece of sheet metal to protect hitting the dizzy......

Hopefully it will not be minus 20C when we do that.....

Boob

[RHClarke]

Originally Posted by Bob Carriere

Plugs were sooty but cleanable....... loss of power when throttled hit for accellaration..... almost to the point of stalling...which it did on occasions!! Problem maybe with big boots and accidently hitting the dizzy while shifting or just plain getting on and off.
Gas.....Yes.... maybe old..... a few gallons fo fresh stuff may help..... with added Sta-Bill for safe measure. It was running so smooth and accellareted well last time out a few months ago. Timing will need to be checked..... and man do you have to be double jointed to do that.....even if half the sheet metal is missing it is still difficult to twist your head around to see the pointer and TDC.....
As we will need to disconnect the vacuum advance to tune up we will check the holding power of the vaccum advance diaphram.... or leaks on the way over to the carb. Two solutions come to mind........ go underneath and once timed properly with the engine turned by hand until pointer is at TDC.... grind a notch in the flywheel where it meet with edge of flywheel housing.... always dark there and easier to see....although it becomes a two men job....
Second temporary solution....cut, fit and install a piece of sheet metal to protect hitting the dizzy...... Hopefully it will not be minus 20C when we do that.....

Boob

Bob, The gas is new. I did not check to see if there was anything caught in the carb (shouldn't be as the breather is covering it). I think it is the boot to the dizzy thing causing the problem. We will see.

I won't be barning it this weekend as I will be down east attending a family funeral. Sometimes CMPs have to take a back seat...

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Bob

I've done just what you are talking about of moving the timing mark to somewhere you can actually see it. The little inspection hatch on the top of the bell housing. I just line the timing mark up carefully through the normal timing window behind the starter. Then with a lettering punch I make a corresponding "O" on the back of the clutch housing in line with a fine wire strung between the two bolts. See the picture.

Not really shown in this picture but something I've started doing as I resemble engine and clutch units is I paint two inches to on the advanced side of the timing marks both new on clutch and on the normal flywheel position. This really helps when the timing is way off to find the timing mark.

I have copies of this photo with my manual on the computer in the shop to remind me on which side of the bolt to wind the wire.

Cheers Phil

[RHClarke]

Originally Posted by Phil Waterman

Hi Bob I've done just what you are talking about of moving the timing mark to somewhere you can actually see it. The little inspection hatch on the top of the bell housing. I just line the timing mark up carefully through the normal timing window behind the starter. Then with a lettering punch I make a corresponding "O" on the back of the clutch housing in line with a fine wire strung between the two bolts. See the picture...Cheers Phil

We can re-institute the underground railway, or if things keep going "south" with the US ecomony, you could apply as an ecomomic refugee...in any case, you would be a welcome addition to the Hammond community.

Failing that, keep up the great work on your website and on MLU. We hamfisted non-technical types really appreciate your work!

[Bob Carriere]

Phil you are a genius......

....I actually set my flywheel on the pointer .....then crawl underneath to spray paint the flywheel black then draw a yellow line on it for TDC.....

....... now I will not have to crawl underneath anymore..... which is a good thing as I get older.....

I still can't believe it.....even smart ass GM engineers never thought of that....

Thanks a million......

...... as Rob said we will adopt you if need be.......

Bob

[Phil Waterman]

Couple of things that I have really noticed down here with the E10 fuel, it does go off (stale, water logged, what ever) very quickly. The best cure I've found is an electric fuel pump. Both big trucks have electric fuel pumps and letting them prime the carb before trying to spin the engine makes all the difference. They don't seem to care if they have sat for a day or a month both of them also are reasonably fresh rebuilds. My HUP is a different story it still has only a mechanical fuel pump and if it is started every week regardless of temperature it starts fine, evens out and runs smooth quickly. If it sits for a month then it doesn't want to start and when it does it takes a long time to smooth out. I suspect that it is the all the stale gas being pulled out of the carb.

Another suspect for the rough running is the vacuum advance, is it working?

Cheers Phil

[Wpns 421]

Originally Posted by Bob Carriere

I still can't believe it.....even smart ass GM engineers never thought of that....

"And they say you can't teach an old dog new tricks" Being an engineer with a piece of paper on the wall is nice , but it will never, ever beat the knowledge of a guy with greasy, dirty hands that has a big smile on his face because it now works. Gilles

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Guys

Wish I could say I thought of that little trick the first time I timed my HUP back in 1978. No such luck. I'll have to find the periscope timing light made up out of plumbing parts on 90EL, Y joint and a mirror sort of worked. Or the next version mirror taped to timing light. But it wasn't until I had the third or forth stovebolt engine on the test stand that I started to really get smart.

But there is a further generation of thinking ahead, which I have done only on one engine, putting a TDC on the clutch housing and on the front pulley for each of the cylinders, this makes adjusting valves easier the one on the pulley lets you turn over the engine with the crank to the TDC for each cylinder to adjust the valve of course you still have to look at the valves to determine the valve closed position but if you remember the pairings you 1/6, 3/4, 5/2 it gets the job done quicker.

Cheers Phil

[guyvapeur]

Phil:
I would hate to think of what inventions you would come up with if you were in the medical field. That timing light and mirror might work on people for rear end examinations.....there would be no need for the examination table..... everything would be done standing up.

Guy

[Bob Carriere]

Resourcefulness and not knowing it can't be done are basic skills for working on a CMP.....

Phil

You could write a book on "how to...for CMPs" .... and maybe you should....

That modification to the crankshaft pulley is genius and surely related to the old index wheels we used on V* for setting valve cycles accurately..... using a boxful of various offset keys...once marked every 120 degrees you are set for life....

I still think that using the inspection hatch on the bell housing for timing is worth it's weight in gold.....

Now .... to the stale gas.....

It seems to go bad faster than a few decades ago..... however the old gas form the 70s use to stink like hell.... new gas goes bad but you cannot readily detect the changes by smell alone.... I remember coming home
after sucking gas from old cars in junk yards.... we used it to wash parts.... inevitably you always swallowed some..... my wife was always quick to point out my stinking breadth..... we stopped that practice after reading in a safety manual that only one drop in your lungs....once spread over the wet tissue like an oil slick... can suffocate you..... so now we suck beers....

It may be that Rob's gas had gone bad.... because his (marine mobile )tank stayed connected to his truck and when he went in the tent it had heated up and poured out when pressurised by sunshine...... it mayhave vented the best volatile components of the gasoline....

The other suspected thing is the dizzy was bumped and moved..... he did have two sparkplug wires knwoed off the dizzy,,,, and yes we checked the firing order... too young...too old..... just right..... perverts !!!!

Vacuum seemed to be working when last checked.

Next detective work willbe a systematic elemination process finishing with the timing......

On the electric fuel pump.... it has been a lively topic on Stove Bolt Chev site..... a lot of guys have been having problems with deteriorating gas line and in particular the fuel oumo diaphram..... some are advocating srtipping the pumping mechanism of the original fuel pump..... replace diaphram with a strong neoprene gasket.... removing the one way valve and using a hidden electric fuel pump to flow gasoline through the dummy pump to the carb.... it retains originality of the pump but is more dependable.

I fully intend to install a permanent electric fuel pump on my cab 11 either in series with the mechanical pump or as a stand alone bypass system in case of unforeseen problems.....

Please keep us informed of any other short cut you come up with while re-doing the HUP.

Bob

[RHClarke]

I ran into my "Manitoba spy" at the airport today. While his progress report on potential border raiding opportunities was less than encouraging, he is still willing to conduct covert ops on my behalf. On the positive side, his list of potential SMP kidnap victims continues to grow...I hear that Winnipeg is nice in the fall. Just might have to find out.

[RHClarke]

This morning started off a bit cold (-21oC with a wind-chill of -32oC), so Lucifer had to earn its keep today. While Lucifer warmed up, the doorways were shoveled and snow was removed from a few of the shelters. While this was going on, the frigid air was disturbed by the sound of an unfamiliar diesel engine. Gilles, from Cantly, brought one of his "small" trucks to the barn to give us a first hand look at one of his latest projects. After firing up the onboard generator (which came to life within seconds), the tour of the many storage spaces began. This truck will make any future MV convoys a little less challenging as it is kitted out with spares to beat the band. The tour of the truck included some tasty treats. No sooner had we opened the box of Tim Horton's doughnuts, Guy Vapeur showed up - I guess old habits die hard... Grant made his entrance and claimed the last treat and the group retired to the barn to bask in Lucifer's hellish glow.

The conversations ranged from various jokes, to sewing jobs and the S&P Rally to be held in July of this year. After chewing the fat for the best part of an hour, Guy parted company and the rest of us headed out for a bite to eat. Our newest favourite eatery is called Boboul, located in nearby Limoges. Hopefully this eatery will keep itself from burning down…

Upon return to the barn, there were more jokes and kidding around. As usual, MLU was discussed in great detail. Eventually, we decided to do some work. The wood crib used to feed Lucifer needed filling. After shoveling out the back doors to the barn, we brought in some wood that we had cut and split last fall. Bob speculated that the load of wood should take us into the warm weather without resupply. Hopefully, he is right, but the cold weather we have been having in January does not auger well…It must be noted that we have had very little snow to date – both a good and bad thing. Good in that shelter maintenance and snow removal has been quite easy, bad because the lack of snow may impact the fire season in the late spring. There is still plenty of winter to come…

After restocking Lucifer’s larder, Bob broke out his spot welder and with Grant’s help, we welded up a new set of hatch lips for the 45 and Prototype HUPs. In both cases, the original hatch lips had rusted to a state of non-repair. So, both sets of lips were ripped off and replacement lips got made up today. The new lips consist of two pieces of 18 ga metal. The first piece has a 90o bend that forms an “L” shape along its length. The long part of the “L” is about an inch and the other part is about ¼ of an inch. The second piece is just a long strip of one inch 1 and 1/4 inch flat 18 ga metal. The short side of the first piece was welded along the length of the second piece forming the necessary “lips” and mounting flanges for the large hatch opening. The lips of course engage the foam rubber seal on the sliding hatch thus keeping the rain and dust out.

Bob and Grant were graceful enough to finish the last piece for me, as once again, time had expired. It was a nice, but cold day at the barn.


Photo 1-Tour of Gilles' truck
Photo 2-The Hammond Sewing Circle - discussing Jeep seat replacement
Photo 3-Spot welding - we are now "experts"...
Photo 4-Destructive testing - Bob hammers the stuffing out of test sample of the lips
Photo 5-Busted Lip...

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Rob

Your package of cold Canadian air arrive this AM -7 to -13 F ( -20 -25 C) in the local area with colder expected for tonight, as soon as we can figure out how to box it up we'll send it back. Nice and bracing but a little to cold for our southern blood.

Interesting to see the contact maintenance truck, they have become very popular with MV collectors in our club. Very useful critters particularly when the owners have re-equipped them with complete tool sets. Does make club convoying more reassuring. Interesting to see the different generator/welder units that they were equipped with.

Cheers Phil

[Bob Carriere]

Some observations.....

It takes a few pictures before you finally get a good one of the sparks.....

Cleaning the joining surfaces help the quality of the weld and reduces sparks.
We used brake cleaner degreasing solution.

New tips are a pain until they wear down to a larger contact area..... next time will file them down to larger size before starting.

The only way (for me) to really test a weld is to break it apart... read destroy... to check of strength and penetration.....

Cleaning up the tip after 24+ welds helps in consistency and quality... dress with a file.... readjust alignment and pressure setting.

Good penetration leaves the metal hot...very hot..... wear gloves.

When wearing gloves..... wear good leather ones..... drops of flying molten metal will burn through them....ouch..... or fall into the top opening of the gloves..double ouch!!!!!

Spot welds every 3 inches on two pieces of 18 gauge steel will distort the metal into a long curve on 6 foot pieces..... not noticeable until after you hold it straight....... next time stagger spot welds... set up better so parts are supported and held flat to spot welder.....

Have fun !!!!!

[RHClarke]

Phil, There is more cold air to come, but at least we have the hobby to keep us warm. I am beginning to suspect that there is a growing awareness of, and a keeness among the olive drab truck crowd in Canada to get more of the modern US military vehicles. Gilles is a case in point.

Speaking of trucks, the rumour mill has it that the Chrysler prototype from across the river has a new home. Not too many details are known, but I am sure that we will get the skinny on this sale and the fate of the truck in the near future.

Bob, Thanks for the welding session, We learned so much: clean your work, take your time, adjust your tools, keep glove openings away from the beaten zone of the welder, and of course, a new dance (resulting from hot slag falling down one's glove...).

[Wpns 421]

Yes there is a growing interest in the US CUCV and the larger trucks M35 etc. In Canada no modern vehicles are available and if you do get them you cannot drive them on the roads because of not be able to get a tiltle.
The contact maintenance truck we have has 12,925 miles. It originally came with a generator welder which we removed because it was very hard and expensive getting parts. We installed a 903C 10kw generator from a Humvee and this summer we will use it to power our tools and to provide lights for events.
Right now the truck is equipped with all sorts of POL products, fan belts, 24v fuel pumps, tire repair kits and everything needed it perform minor repairs.
Our collection of vehicles is oriented towards combat service support and are vehicles are equipped to help others, this goes from the M816 wrecker to my wife's M1010 ambulance. This is what we do, and we do what we like. Gilles

[RHClarke]

Originally Posted by Wpns 421

Yes there is a growing interest in the US CUCV and the larger trucks M35 etc...This is what we do, and we do what we like. Gilles

Bonjour Gilles,

Take a look up the hill from your garage and tell us if the Chrysler Prototype has moved. Curious minds want to know...

[Wpns 421]

I saw the truck this week and it hasn't moved.!!!!YET Gilles

[RHClarke]

Happy Australia Day (from our timezone)! I hope that the flooding abates quickly with no more loss of life.

Australia, Australia, Australia, Australia, we love you amen! Hope that cracked a smile for a few of you down under...

[RHClarke]

It was only -6oC but the wind was blowing a bit – so, we fired up trusty Lucifer. The weather service predicted 4-6cm of snow to fall between Friday night and Saturday morning. We ended up with a bit more than that, which prompted Bob to fire up the tractor. He spent a good hour or so clearing away the latest accumulation of snow. Grant brought along his snow blower and cleaned out the areas around the barn and a few of the shelters. The cleaning of the remaining shelters was my focus. Removing snow from the roof and clearing the access paths took about an hour and a half.

We had a period of time where the falling snow as so fluffy that it had the very eerie effect of muffling the usual noises heard at the barn (passing snowmobiles/vehicle traffic and birds).

With the yard clear (for the moment), we retired to brunch at our usual haunt. The chat turned to ebay treasures and other items needed to keep us busy at the barn. After lunch, we visited the local metal shop to find a good slab of metal for Bob. He has plans to fabricate a metal spacer for the carb on his truck. Back at the barn, out came the carb collection and reference manuals. Bob and Grant spent the remainder of the afternoon looking at the different carbs and the specs in the manuals.

While the dynamic duo fiddled with carby bits, I spent the afternoon playing with the wiring for the HUP. The object of the afternoon was to find a place on the frame to mount a kill switch that was in a very inconspicuous but easily accessible location. Next was to fab up a mount for the switch. With that done, it was time to head home.

Photos:
1 - The indispensible tractor and sno-blower
2 - Shopping at the local metal shop
3 - Some of Bob's carbs out for comparision
4 - Bob and Grant going over carb specs and learning that variety is the spice of life when it comes to GM carbs...

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Guys

My solution to a battery switch when I put the 261 in BEAUTY the C60S was a marine battery selector switch rated at 500 Amps continuous, 1000 Amps for 100 seconds. In my case I found a dual battery selector with a both off position. It allows me to run the truck on 6 volts and charge the 6 volt battery off the generated. If by chance I should have a problem starting then I flip the switch to the 12 volt battery (for the radios) hit the start which really spins over on the 12 volts.

Location on the Pattern 13 is on the underside of the cab floor under the drives side. If you go with a 6-12 volt battery approach try to find of a selector switch which does not have a both position for obvious reasons. If you are going with the auxiliary 12 volt then run the power supply to instruments etc to the 6 volt side of the switch and only connect the starter to the output of the switch.
Cheers Phil

[Jordan Baker]

Rob,

that last picture with Bob and Grant, Is that the CMP book of the month club meeting?

[Alex Blair (RIP)]

Originally Posted by Jordan Baker

Rob,

that last picture with Bob and Grant, Is that the CMP book of the month club meeting?

NO Jordan...
Grant is teaching Bob how to read...!!
LOL