Ladder Lacing

[sgtbrown]

Brits and, I assume, Canuks "ladder laced" their ammo boots. A little research has shown me there are a number of ways to ladder lace. Was there an "official" method?

Thanks,
Tom

[chris vickery]

Tom, not sure on the ladder lacing techniques, but I believe that was how we were to have our boots done while on parade when I was in Cadets.
I have also heard that this was standard practice in the Commonwealth forces.
I also spoke with a former OSS commando who told me one way to identify an unknown soldiers nationality was to sneak up on them and feel the lacing on their boots to determine whether they were a friendly or not. Truth, urban legend, I'm not sure.
Comments???

[Alex Blair (RIP)]

Originally posted by sgtbrown
Brits and, I assume, Canuks "ladder laced" their ammo boots. A little research has shown me there are a number of ways to ladder lace. Was there an "official" method?

Thanks,
Tom

I was ladder lacing my boots in Basic training (RCAF) in '63...and for the next 14 years...so it's been around the Canadian Armed Forces for a while...

[Gunner]

Hi Guys:

When I was a lad we had to go to the extreme of polishing and then pressing our laces before straight lacing our boots. We had one beat up old iron that was used for this messy job.

Then again, our Sgt Major was so straight-laced that he made us polish the bottoms of our boots.

One more war story- Bdr Calnan did not shave well one morning which resulted in his being offered a charge or the Sgt Major's punishment... with eyes on officer candidate training, I chose the 'no paper-work' option and, at the end of the training day, reported to the Sgt Major for punishment. He handed me a gallon of white paint and a 1" brush and put me to work painting the rocks lining all the paths around the "H" huts.

Many hours later, a gleaming pair of boots hove into my lowered vision and I looked up to find the Sgt Major inspecting my work. he kicked one rock over, called me a lazy bast*rd and dumped on me for not painting the undersides! I learned "attention to detail" that night.

Bring back hosetops and puttees!

Cheers, Mike

[sgtbrown]

Originally posted by chris vickery
Tom, not sure on the ladder lacing techniques, but I believe that was how we were to have our boots done while on parade when I was in Cadets.
I have also heard that this was standard practice in the Commonwealth forces.
I also spoke with a former OSS commando who told me one way to identify an unknown soldiers nationality was to sneak up on them and feel the lacing on their boots to determine whether they were a friendly or not. Truth, urban legend, I'm not sure.
Comments???

****************************************

Wish I could remember the source but I can only say it was told to me, not something I read. The teller spoke of his father who was seconded to a British area. The first thing they made him do was remove his US boots and switch to ammo boots. The reason? He would be walking around in the dark and there were many Gurkas out there hidden in "spider holes". As you walked past, they would reach up and feel your shoes. If what they felt wasn't right, your head and torso would soon part company with the swing of a kurkri!

Tom

[sapper740]

Originally posted by sgtbrown
Brits and, I assume, Canuks "ladder laced" their ammo boots. A little research has shown me there are a number of ways to ladder lace. Was there an "official" method?

Thanks,
Tom

Tom, I got out in 2000 and we were still ladder lacing then. The reason, as I was told, was to make it as easy as possible for a medic to remove your boots if you suffered a foot injury. I knew hockey coaches as a kid who made us "ladder Lace" for the same reason. A medic simply had to run a knife down the front of your boot and voila, the laces were cut and boot removed. I too have heard of the Ghurkas and Commandos feeling your boot laces to determine friend or foe, but feel that story is more urban legend than fact. As to there being a number of ways, I'm not sure of that...as you really only have two options...skip the first hole on the left or skip the first hole on the right. I've included a pic of both my Ankle Boots (ammo boots) and my Oxfords from my Dress uniform. As long as the laces end up looking like those, your O.K. and you won't have to do the "hatless dance" in the Sgt. Mjr's office! Hope this helps, Derek.


CHIMO!

[Kent Aist]

Here is a site that shows 2 methods. I have taken you to what I think is the standard method. http://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/stra...hionlacing.htm

[sapper740]

Originally posted by Kent Aist
Here is a site that shows 2 methods. I have taken you to what I think is the standard method. http://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/stra...hionlacing.htm

Well, who'd-a-thunk it, a web site for tying your shoelaces. Mein Gott! Gotta love the web! Good thing I wasn't chewing gum at the same time! LOL! One small point, no Canadian serviceman would use the method of cutting your shoelaces and tying a knot in the ends to prevent the ends from sliding through. Destroying the Queen's property, and all that, what!

[cletrac (RIP)]

My cousin fought in Italy and he used to tell about the Ghurkas coming up behind you at night. One would feel the boots to see if they were laced right and the other would feel the dog tags on your neck. If you didn't pass both tests you got the kukri treatment.

[sapper740]

Originally posted by cletrac
My cousin fought in Italy and he used to tell about the Ghurkas coming up behind you at night. One would feel the boots to see if they were laced right and the other would feel the dog tags on your neck. If you didn't pass both tests you got the kukri treatment.

Allow me to preface my remarks by stating that I have nothing but the utmost respect for veterans of WW I, WW II, Korea, Cyprus, Egypt, Bosnia et al.
Having said that I'd like to comment on the veracity of many stories that have passed down over the decades from veterans. I've listened quietly and respectfully to the exploits of many veterans; Canadian, British, American, and German included. Fascinating tales all! Sometimes however, I know the story being told isn't accurate to the nth degree, and that is fine also. Failing memories, hyperbole, and sometimes 3rd person relating of tales has allowed a few non-facts to become part of the story. There is no conscious attempt at revising history, it is simply a part of the evolution of the relating of our past. I too have heard of Ghurkas and some Commando groups using boot laces as a method of identification. Personally, I don't believe it. Just too much room for error. Not all soldiers would have had their boot laces tied the same way. Some boots would have been caked in mud. And you have to ask the question, when there are so many better ways to identify a soldier i.e. helmet, kit, smell (yes smell!), language, location, uniform etc. etc. why fumble around in the bottom of a foxhole to check bootlaces? As for the dogtags, consider the difficulty of fumbling through 2 or 3 or 4 layers of clothing to find the dog tags without alerting the soldier! Impossible! Ghurkas are some of the world's most skillful stalkers. One could easily sneak up on me and slit my throat, no problem. Could one sneak up on me and fumble through my clothes to find my dogtags while another crawled around my feet without eliciting a response from me? No way Jose! I would in all likelihood suffer the same fate...slit throat...but my compatriots would be aroused and the non-efficacy of this method would soon be apparent to the Ghurkas.
My humble opinion...it never happened.

For what it is worth the explantion I was given for ladder lacing was that it was easier for a medic to slice the lace if he had to take your boots off if you were wounded. I'm afraid Iwasn't paying too much attention to how they took my boots off when I was wounded so can't say for sure what they did.

[Jon Skagfeld]

I was always taught, and always used, ladder lacing, for the aforementioned medical reasons for a foot injury, i.e., to run a bayonet up the ladder in order to remove the boot.

Yet, even today, official Dress Regulation charts, hung in many Military Establishments, show the cross-over lacing method of lacing, and as a footnote, explain that this cross-over method is used in order to facilitate boot removal in the event of a foot injury!!!!!

With the cross-over lacing method, a medic would be hacking away for quite a while, trying to cut each individual cross-over lace pattern.

I (stubbornly, I guess) refused to consider anything else but ladder lacing for any type of footwear.

[Gunner]

Hi Jon:

Current first aid training is to leave the boot on to provide stability unless the foot is swelling so much that circulation might be impaired. For a bleeding wound direct pressure, boot and all, is the way to go.

Boots are cut away now by cutting the back off with a pair of safety scissors so that the boot is lifted off the foot as opposed to the foot being twisted as it comes out of the boot. Us first aiders don't do that, least not in Ottawa FD.

Of course this is all predicated on being near second (ambulance) and third (hospital) level medical care. As a Fire Fighter in rural Ottawa we can count on evacuation within 25 minutes so the boots stay on. If the Paramedic wants them off we will assist in cutting them away.

Put on my other hat, and as a soldier in the wilderness, I'd default to judgement call. If I do have to cut away a boot there's lots of time to undo it and pull out or cut off the laces. I'd still prefer to cut the boot away then to pull it off the foot.

Regardless, as per CF dress regulations; my drill boots are straight laced and my combat boots are cross laced, carefully ensuring that the outside lace is always over the inside lace.

Cheers! Mike

[RHClarke]

So, Mike, my friend, what is the drill for the removal of a crushed or injured foot from the unique "Calnan Safety Sandal"?

[sgtbrown]

Originally posted by sapper740
Well, who'd-a-thunk it, a web site for tying your shoelaces. Mein Gott! Gotta love the web! Good thing I wasn't chewing gum at the same time! LOL! One small point, no Canadian serviceman would use the method of cutting your shoelaces and tying a knot in the ends to prevent the ends from sliding through. Destroying the Queen's property, and all that, what!

*****************************

Queen's property? Victoria? Last I knew it was KING George V!

Tom

[Alex Blair (RIP)]

Originally posted by sgtbrown
*****************************

Queen's property? Victoria? Last I knew it was KING George V!

Tom

Hi Tom...
Queen Elizabeth,the second,...King George Vl 's oldest daughter...
..took over when her father died in '52
The King underwent surgery for lung cancer, he never fully recovered, the King died on the February 6th 1952

[sapper740]

Originally posted by sgtbrown
*****************************

Queen's property? Victoria? Last I knew it was KING George V!

Tom

Tom, I'm not quite old enough to have been subject to the K.R.&O's. I have the large crown on my cap badge.



Somehow "For Queen and Country" doesn't have quite the same ring to it.


CHIMO!

[sgtbrown]

Sorry guys, I was just kidding!!

I'm only a second generation Yank. Dad was a Jock and Mom was a Kraut. Dad died when I was very young but I remember Mom talking about the monarchy. She had little, if any, use for QEII but felt the Queen Mum was one Hell of a lady! Mom has been gone for 30 years now but I think it would have made her feel good to know the Grand Lady made it past 100!

Tom

P.S. How did we get here from a discussion on shoelaces? Aren't discussion groups great?

[sapper740]

Originally posted by sgtbrown
Sorry guys, I was just kidding!!

I'm only a second generation Yank. Dad was a Jock and Mom was a Kraut. Dad died when I was very young but I remember Mom talking about the monarchy. She had little, if any, use for QEII but felt the Queen Mum was one Hell of a lady! Mom has been gone for 30 years now but I think it would have made her feel good to know the Grand Lady made it past 100!

Tom

P.S. How did we get here from a discussion on shoelaces? Aren't discussion groups great?

Yeah, I love 'em too!
Some people call it threadjacking. I call it ambling.


CHIMO!

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Originally posted by sapper740
Somehow "For Queen and Country" doesn't have quite the same ring to it.

Doesn't matter, you stunned, converted Texan!

Besides, unless she follows the Queen Mum (she might be trying to break Vickie's record), ol' Chuck will be in charge soon...

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Originally posted by RHClarke
So, Mike, my friend, what is the drill for the removal of a crushed or injured foot from the unique "Calnan Safety Sandal"?

[sapper740]

Originally posted by Geoff Winnington-Ball
Doesn't matter, you stunned, converted Texan!

Besides, unless she follows the Queen Mum (she might be trying to break Vickie's record), ol' Chuck will be in charge soon...

Oh no, please no...

I can see it now...

King Charles, Prince of Wales, Keeper of the Faith, User of Feminine Hygiene Products....

[Gunner]

The key to wearing safety sandals is to develop a sixth sense about heavy objects descending toe-ward.

Taking the "ounce of prevention... " saying to its not so logical conclusion, scientist Herr Professor Doktor Futzenkramer in der Auschloch, has written in "Lancet" and other medical journals, that so many podiatry problems could be avoided if people just kept their feet out from under large, heavy and/or sharp objects.

In other words... keep on your toes and move fast!



Mike

P.S. Derek:

I thought it was, "Keeper of the Faith, Defender of the Realm and Secretly Wishes he was a Feminine Hygene Prod....", never mind.

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Originally posted by sapper740
Oh no, please no...

I can see it now...

King Charles, Prince of Wales, Keeper of the Faith, User of Feminine Hygiene Products....

Are y'all calling Ol' Horseface a Feminine Hygiene Product?

[Gunner]

Oh, heavens no, Cardinal Fang. I would never cast aspersions on our future Monarch.

I was just referring to his own carelessly recorded cell phone call about becoming Camilla's kote... never mind.

Seriously. as a firm Monarchist I have some doubts about the Prince of Wales ability to wear the mantle comfortably. Perhaps Her Gracious Majesty will convince him to abdicate in favour of one of his sons.

Long Live the Queen!

Mike

[sgtbrown]

Lets see:

SHOE LACES transforms to

KINGS AND QUEENS which transforms to

BONNIE PRINCE CHARLIE which transforms to

FEMININE HYGENE PRODUCTS

In the words of Hannibal Smith in the old TV show The A-Team,

I LOVE IT WHEN A PLAN COMES TOGETHER!

Tom

[wayne c. petrie]

I was taught 2 reasons for ladder lacing,
1- as previously stated, for medics to easily cut the laces to remove your boot,
2-the ladder laced boots stayed tighter longer.
I have been using ladder lacing since the mid 60's.I have found that this method is also easier to cinch up.

Wayne

[wayne c. petrie]

I thought Chuck was"Jug Ears",and Cammie "Horseface"?

Wayne

[sapper740]

Originally posted by wayne c. petrie
I thought Chuck was"Jug Ears",and Cammie "Horseface"?

Wayne

Can you imagine if they breed!!!!!!!!!!




It'll be Mr. Ed with donkey ears!!!!!!!!!




CHIMO!