Another two carriers roll off the production line

kevin powles · #1 22-02-09, 02:06

They still keep coming.

Jordan Baker · #2 22-02-09, 05:56

Do explain more. Are these complete repros or just the armour?

Where abouts are they being done. They look to be a very high standard.

kevin powles · #3 22-02-09, 09:54

Hi Jordan thanks for the pics,

These are two completly new fabricated carriers being built in the u.k. by a friend of mine, one will be a Mk1 the other a Mk2. They are based on two British carriers that came out of a scrap yard back in the nineties, pictures attached. They are exact in every detail and construction methods. Martyn the guy building them has all original running gear which has been refurbished. Basically these will be new carriers straight out of the box.

Would make a nice Christmas present for someone.

RichardT10829 · #4 22-02-09, 10:53

It was Martyn that inspired me to do the Ferguys one, having seen what he has achieved litterally from nothing ! to restore one is hard enough but to scratch build two simultaneausly is a force to be reckoned with ! Martyn has got all the plans and measurements for my armour when it comes, cant wait until Easter Hols when i come down to Suffolk

Kevin shall i put the pic up that shows the carrier after all the mud had been cleaned out

i was gobsmacked at how far gone it was !

RichardT10829 · #5 22-02-09, 11:04

here you go.......hands up who thinks they got it bad ?,,,,,, or who would have binned this long ago ?

a true testiment of what can actually be saved

a few pictures later the front end has snapped off it was that bad.

ron · #6 22-02-09, 11:51

Hell Richard thats what I call a rust bucket,I dont think that I have ever come accross one as bad as that one, I guess that we are lucky up here at least the place is bone dry, I have come across lots of them down south in the rain forest country but thats about the worst I have ever seen, full marks to your friend in building carriers from scratch,can you post any pics of his workshop set up and production methods jigs etc? I know all of us here would like to see how he builds them,its a project that I want to do some day,
Thanks again Regards ron

Tony Smith · #7 22-02-09, 14:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardT10829

Kevin shall i put the pic up that shows the carrier after all the mud had been cleaned out

i was gobsmacked at how far gone it was !

What was actually holding the mud in?

Jordan Baker · #8 22-02-09, 15:25

Wow.

How come this guy isn't a member here. You should get him to join up.

RichardT10829 · #9 22-02-09, 20:08

he works full time and when he does not work he is doing the carriers, he is pals with Shaun Hindle and Kevin Powles from here, not sure why he has not joined up, but i have been watching his build with great respect, if i knew how to upload the pics as thumbnails rather than how i do it i would otherwise anyone on dial up would be waiting ages to load the page up.

peter smith · #10 26-02-09, 11:38

Hi Guys,
New here, i have been looking for a carrier for a long time to rebuild but keep coming second ! Is this guy making these for other people, would he make me one ? seems the only answer and probably cost effective. People build "new" WW2 jeeps with new everything on them.

Pete

BCBlitz · #11 26-02-09, 16:10

WOW now that man should quit his full time job as I think he is missing his calling in life ........ I also think he should sell the top and bottom half of them in " KIT " form and send them around the world in small boxes !!! LOL

I know ....... I know silly but trully is amaizing his work.

RichardT10829 · #12 26-02-09, 19:42

i have discussed this with him before, but the cnter bulkhead requires quite alot of fettling, as daft as it may sound he has all the patterns to be able to flat pack a mk1 or mk2 carrier including all linkages based on you having your own drive line (track wheels diff etc etc)

a really nice bloke too !

Keith Webb · #13 26-02-09, 19:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by peter smith

Hi Guys,
New here, i have been looking for a carrier for a long time to rebuild but keep coming second ! Is this guy making these for other people, would he make me one ? seems the only answer and probably cost effective. People build "new" WW2 jeeps with new everything on them.

Pete

Hi Pete and welcome to MLU.

Perhaps you could let us know where you are located.

rossbart · #14 27-02-09, 00:00

Richard,

I would be very interested in someone that could mfg & ship me all of the flat metal pieces for the air inlet and engine cover. I am fabricating the side & rear armor as well as tool plate as we speak. I can get the sheet metal engine cover panels from Midwest Military. However, I am in Oklahoma USA and only have photos to go by as to the dimensions of the air inlet & engine covers.

If you could pass this interest along to the craftsman and ask him if he has any interest it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Ross

martyn · #15 27-02-09, 00:12

Hi thort id log in and say hello and iam pleased that youre all talking bout my new projects thanks to kevin and richard for posting the photos i only just found the site evreyone kept saying bout the carrier forum but could i find it

I would like to clear sumthing up the mk1 iam building it a new tub and original running gear the MK2 is original runnig gear and lower hull with a new bulkhead and top armour.
Sum people might be asking why iam doing this well its simple how many people have looked at a carrier and thort yes thats what i want and not getting put off by a bit of track wear purchase it BUT dont look at the popped rivets or the rust build up between the frame rails just think this vehicle might be original but its been through a war had a army refit in the 50s then been scrapped and rebuilt buy sumone or just had a quick spruce up that a blind man on a galloping horse would be happy with well ive been there seen them had the hard sellers and thort yeh id have a carrier but id not be 100% happy with it so what options were open....
I decied to find a couple of wrecks and set to work and just see what i could acheve made a few calls found 2 hulls bit of top armour front and a bulkhead it started out as 2 to make 1 but i needed to replace the frames so had to cut the floor out and split the sides (what would you do at this point ?) iam having a new floor made and my friend says why not make 2 floors and copy the sides whilst you at this stage it was silly not to so I thort about it for a min and set to work on 2 carriers to make 2 but needed a few extra parts for the running gear so found a 3rd with a bit of rear armour.
now i have a floor, all lower hull parts, front top/rear and part of one side as pattens i have not set out to make this a job but it has kinda taken over a big part of my life after my normal job.
I am sure sumwhere out there sumone i thinking or saying there not real but its no diffrent to jeeps and other vehicles most restored vehicles have had new parts/ bodys or is a later type made to look wartime? well my carriers are made by using original parts as templates or drawings like kevin said new carriers stright out the box.
I hope that sum of you if not most will understand that a carrier sat in a tree for 30yrs+ is a waste and if sumone with a mad idea can use that carrier to help keep others running and keep history alive then good on them and for those who carnt well all i can say is NUTS.
hope i havnt bored you all with chatting bout my carrier build

RichardT10829 · #16 27-02-09, 00:19

Crack on Martyn thats all i can say fella ! your an inspiration full stop !

to take on one carrier is a massive task, but to scratch build two is nothing short of a miracle. cant wait to see them done ! and i reckon (myself included) you would have a big demand for fabricating the flat plate in my case the top armour bulkhead and ducting.

welcome to the forum matey

martyn · #17 27-02-09, 01:02

Hi mate, thanks for your support it takes it out of you building two having trying to rember what went where and have i missed any linkages ect still got 2 v8s to sort out and all the tin work but hey you only live once

when your ready for your top bits just say and we will get your old girl down here for a few days and sort her out.
martyn

Jordan Baker · #18 27-02-09, 03:54

Who cares if they are new or not. Its two more carriers out and into use. My carrier has all new side plates and a pile of new bins. To find the NOS stuff is impossible for some items and next to impossible for others.

What are you planing to do for some items that were cast? Would you just machine out the part or try and do some foundry work?

Anyway I wish I had the space, tools and skills to do what your doing. Id be making my Hamilton Armoured Car for sure.

martyn · #19 27-02-09, 13:38

Hi jordan, what cast parts did you meen, i am able to get my hands on sum more cast suspention units but mk2 ones are fabracated and i have old ones to work from other bits like the linkages ive had machined there not much on them that carnt be made might even look at making tracks one day. but like you say NOS bits are hard to find i was suprised noboby has done this before maybe iam just mad? ive attached a photo of the linkages and a few bits ive had made ive not got as far as the engine covers and bits i am aiming to get one rivetted up soon then get one ready for arnhem in september after that the other can plod along maybe a christmas pressy for the misses

chat later off to counter sink more holes martyn

Bob Moseley (RIP) · #20 27-02-09, 23:02

Hi all - looks like the UK has an equivalent of our Oz Colin. Just imagine these two guys in the same workshop.

Bob

carrierbarry · #21 01-03-09, 21:05

Martyn

OK This is a fantastic story but lets start at the beginning. Where did you find the wrecked hulls? Is there any history to these hulls?
Where did you start?
What parts are you short of??
Please tell us more.

Barry

Bruce Parker (RIP) · #22 01-03-09, 23:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by martyn

maybe iam just mad?

Yes, you probably are, like the rest of us. But mad in a good, wholesome way. Keep it up!!

George McKenzie · #23 02-03-09, 06:31

I have a CD full of carrier pictures of alot of detail Can someone tell me if I can post it on this site ? and how? If not I'll make some copies to mail out . PS This fellow sells rivets and special bolts . his address is Dick Naven 6802 SW 33 Place ,Portland ,OR 97219 USA EM.Blacksmithbolt1@qwestoffice.net www.BlacksmithBolt.com

Pedr · #24 03-03-09, 02:36

G'day Martyn,

Welcome to the group, and congratulations on a fantastic job.

However, don't dismiss this as scratch built. These are remanufactured carriers, and deserve just as much respect as such. It's alright for some bloke who has a hull in a condition that can be "restored" by a quick trip to the blaster and a couple of coats of paint, then bolt her back together.

Sometimes this isn't the case and more major works must be undertaken to restore the carrier ( Like what you're doing ).

In the Warbird collective, they throw out 95% of the original aeroplane to rebuild it, but in their case the numbers and history are the most important part. They call this provenance.

Working on that premise, you probably have the original numbers for your two hulls, Thats what your new pair are. The rebuild parts come off a carrier somewhere, there's your ID numbers.

Like that ol' adage about " I have George Washington's axe, It's had 15 new handles and six new heads "

Pedr

martyn · #25 04-03-09, 12:29

Hi all as to where my two carriers came from,
They were sourced from a scrap yard in norfolk and i acuired them from a dealer in the same area the mk2 still had it T number in faint paint on the front and the Mk1 was painted white think it was poss used as a ambluance?
iam just about ready for rivetting the hull shouldnt be too long before there out and about thanks for all your coments its a big boost to keep me plodding on.
martyn

cantankrs · #26 05-03-09, 00:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by martyn

iam just about ready for rivetting the hull

Hi Martyn,

Great work! I'm not familiar with the rivets on these Carriers but will you be bashing each one, or knocking up a hydraulic rivet squeezer to slide over the angles, and across the plates, to close the rivets?

Alex

martyn · #27 06-03-09, 10:42

Hi Alex
i have found a firm near me that builds steam engines and boilers they are going to have a look at what i want to do, the chap there said they use two air hammers and make a snap to fit the rivet profile iam keen to see it being done will try and get sum photos might be worth a few days off work to help out. living in a town that made the first ww1 tanks and ruston cranes you would think finding sumone who knows about rivetting would be easy took me 10wks and a lot of phone calls to find this chap mind you its a dying trade.
martyn

martyn · #28 15-03-09, 12:48

has anyone on here had any rivetting work done on a carrier if so how long did it take and what was done? as i have just taken one of my hulls away for rivetting so all i can do is sit and wait, its a nervous feeling as hope he gets it right ive marked the holes gave him photos and original parts with rivets still in,guess its out of my hands now just got to wait to hear from them will post sum photos soon as i have it back.
martyn

aj.lec · #29 15-03-09, 13:24

Hello Martyn
I have been doing some hot rivett work on some cmp chassis today
Farming that job out i will now say you have dodged a bullet

It is a pain in the rear
not using high impact air hammers or high compression dies this job tends to be quite tedious as the heat dissapates very quickly from the rivets soon after coming out of the forge

We found today that it was quicker and neater using an oxy set ,heating ,driving 2-3 times then reheating heads then repeating the process till a good head was formed
we had a solid dolly with rivett head pattern in the end to hold the rivett in place and a hardenned bar with the same pattern in the end struck with a large hammer for the forming
with the use of high impact hammers from either side (where possible ) the job would be a lot quicker i would think

cantankrs · #30 15-03-09, 15:46

I believe that apart from forming a tight head, the shank of the rivet should be swelled to fill the hole it passes through. Heating the whole rivet would be essential so bear that in mind if you're trying to use Oxy. The M3 Lee and Grant riveted hulls were squeeze riveted as far as I've been able to find out. And I can speak with personal experience that those rivets swelled.

While not particularly relevant in this thread on Carriers, I'll mention that the holes in the M3 Medium angles seem to be slightly larger than the holes in the plates, so pushing from plate side toward angle side is essential during removal.

Regards

Alex