Wanted: ram/sexton tank drivers hatch

[Buster Reed]

Hi all,

Im currently looking for a drivers hatch for the ram or sexton vehicles. the actual part im looking for is external part of the vison slot (will try post pic later).
Also im after rear engine decks for them as well.
Best regards
Buster

[maple_leaf_eh]

Send an immediate letter to the Base Commander of CFB Borden in Ontario.

http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/caf-commu...gs/borden.page

Range Control pulled two Rams out of the weeds earlier in 2017. The CWM surveyed the hulks and deemed there was very little of interest for their purposes. Everything (broadly) was shut up. The CWM staffer did not go into the wrecks due to UXO hazard.

[Buster Reed]

Hey Terry,

Thanks for the reply.

Have you anymore pics of the rams they pulled of and also have you got a direct email address by any chance or a name?

Kyle

[maple_leaf_eh]

Only a few shots have circulated. The hulks had not been cleared of ordnance and range scrap. The CWM staffer only looked in through the hatches and holes without digging inside. He thought that parts the recovery crew had found on the ground nearby had been thrown back into the holes. Your allies will be the curator and staff at the Worthington tank park museum.

In your letter refer to the range scrap armoured fighting vehicle hard targets recovered by Range Control in spring of 2017.

Colonel L.P. McGarry, CD
Base Commander
Canadian Forces Base Borden
P.O. Box 1000, Station Main
Borden, ON L0M 1C0

(This is the easiest postal code to remember - Lots Of Men - One Commanding Officer.)

[Robin Craig]

Terry,

As usual, I beg to differ, the easiest postcode, as every good Canadian knows, is that belonging to a gent named Santa, his postcode is HOH OHO.

[Johnny Canuck]

HAH AHA

Geoff

[rob love]

Is the tank marked with a no10 a M24? I think I saw one of these on the ranges in Wainwright about 20 years back.

Reading up on them, I see where Canada was supposed to get 32 of them, but may have only received a little less, with few actually making it into regular force units.

I believe we have the turret from one of those two Ram tanks here in Shilo that Bill Gregg salvaged back in the day.

[James P]

Yes Rob that is a M-24 Chaffee hull

http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww...24_Chaffee.php

[maple_leaf_eh]

This one is at the Hylands Golf Course nestled beside the Ottawa Intl Airport.

[Ed Storey]

Here is a 1948 image of two Armoured Snowmobiles attempting to recover a Canadian M24 from the bog in Churchill, Manitoba.

[Bob Phillips]

Great pictures!
What is the vehicle with the number 3 painted on the turret and with all steel track?

[Jordan Baker]

Is number 3 a Centurian?

[James P]

Yes to that (#3) being a Centurian.

[Tim Bell]

They all look very restorable compared to some of the projects now being undertaken in Europe! Even the turrets!

Hope they are not scrapped.

Tim

[Colin Alford]

Gents,

I have been aware of this matter for approx. 1 1/2 years now but was purposefully keeping quiet.

The remains of the vehicles were pulled off of the ranges in the early fall of 2016. Their fate is still somewhat in question due to differing interpretations of regulations regarding approved methods for the disposal of Hard Targets.

There are a few of us in the local area that have been attempting to exert the necessary pressure to ensure that these items are not just scrapped as there are many useable parts.

A rough inventory:
4 Rams (2 hulls largely intact, 2 very blasted),
2 HVSS Shermans,
1 Centurion,
1 Chaffee (turret not recovered yet),
1 Leopard 1 hull; and
3 AVGPs.

Shortly before Christmas there was another appeal made which hopefully will help gain some traction.

Colin

[maple_leaf_eh]

Thank you for the local context. It is important that these pieces not leave the camp and end up in a smelter. Who gets what after that, will be the arm wrestling match of the decade.

[Colin Alford]

Originally Posted by maple_leaf_eh

.... It is important that these pieces not leave the camp and end up in a smelter. Who gets what after that, will be the arm wrestling match of the decade.

Terry, I completely agree with you.

Colin

[maple_leaf_eh]

Originally Posted by Colin Alford

Gents,

...

The remains of the vehicles were pulled off of the ranges in the early fall of 2016. Their fate is still somewhat in question due to differing interpretations of regulations regarding approved methods for the disposal of Hard Targets.

...

Colin

Interesting observation on risk and hazard minimization by the Base.

Not that I don't have a real job to do, I found:

B-GL-381-003/TS-000,
RANGE AND UNEXPLODED EXPLOSIVE ORDNANCE (UXO) CLEARANCE HANDBOOK, dated 15 Mar 2008

In definitions,

"r. Munitions Scrap (MS). All by-products resulting from the functioning of ammunition. This includes empty shell casings, projectiles, launchers, shrapnel, pieces of fuse, and all similar objects. Target vehicles, although of a non-munitions origin, shall be considered as munitions scrap because of the risk of hidden or residual munitions or items of an explosive nature contained within or near the target. (emphasis by me) For range/UXO clearance purposes, fragments and objects readily identifiable by nomenclature as EO (carrier shells, casings, etc) are reported and recorded as part of the SUM to the CSM to provide definable information for site characterization. May also be referred to as munitions
debris."

[David Dunlop]

Hi Terry.

So the concern would be that, for example, a 20mm explosive round might have bored into some part of the target vehicle and failed to detonate. So all the bits are off limits until a determination can be made that no such risk exists?

David

[rob love]

It is more than just that David. Any range that the Americans may have visited could have traces of depleted uranium rounds used on them. We may have experimented with the stuff back in the 60s as well. Then there is the usual myriad of chemical residue associated with munitions including treats such as phosphorous and chemical agents. Beyond the physical inspection, it could also require decontamination.

[David Dunlop]

Thanks, Rob.

Do you think any of those Rams might be a Skink hull, or was that vehicle on a completely different range?

David

[Bob Carriere]

.....with the risk and cost involved with the determination that it has no UXO stuck in there....... and the possibility that a perfectly good sound wheel sprocket might be radioactive......... the only safe disposal is to bury it on a DND site........loose the paperwork of where it was buried........ and the objects will be rediscovered years from now when the DND site is closed and awaits for the ground to be decontaminated.

What a shame ......... history down the drain.

Bob C.

[rob love]

Originally Posted by David Dunlop

Thanks, Rob.

Do you think any of those Rams might be a Skink hull, or was that vehicle on a completely different range?

David

Skinks were on grizzly hulls. And, of course, there were very few completed examples. There are quite a number of the turrets that have been pulled off the ranges, but most (if not all) were unfinished raw castings rather than completed and installed examples. The loose turret here in Shilo falls into that category.