Col Anderson Model T

[Lang]

I would appreciate some photos of Col Anderson's Model T Patrol vehicle if anyone has some. The museum at Wanaka want to recreate one (both Australian and NZ armies had these in Egypt/Palestine)

Lang

[JackM]

Lang,

I think this vehicle has now changed hands - you may be aware of that ?

Col's T was one of the earlier brass models of the type that was issued to the Australian Light Car Patrols in 1916. Before that date, I think these patrols were issued with an amalgam of diverse vehicles. These brass Ts were replaced by 1917 Ts, in Palestine on 11 Dec 17.

There is a very good website on these vehicles under the heading of 1st Australian Armoured Car Section at
http://alh-research.tripod.com/Light...pic_id=1104610

As the prelude to these writings indicate, much of this is taken from a manuscript held by the AWM and submitted by Captain E.H. James called "The Motor Patrol".

The British had these same vehicles too - in fact they were manufactured at Ford's Manchester factory and appear to have been produced to a War Office design. Though I've no proof of that (I wish I did have - the IWM can't/won't help), the configuration of all the vehicles I've seen on the AWM collection, is so similar that there's probably little doubt they were a WO designed body.

Are you looking for photos of the early or late Model Ts ?

[Lang]

Jack,

I am happy with photos of either brass or steel radiator models as it appears the bodies were similar. I have the shot of the Australians lined up in 1918 from AWM - it seems they have both models plus one of the 275 Buicks issued to the Australian Army with the same? body.

Any info gladly received with thanks.

Lang

[Lang]

Jack,

This goes both with this thread and the 1918 Buick thread below.

Sure looks like a Buick sticking its nose out between the Fords.

Vehicle number 3 is also a mystery (round top radiator and high bonnet hinge???) The Model T tall radiator did not come out until 1923 so not that.

Lang

[JackM]

Lang,

I've seen that photo a number of times and also noticed the two obvious differences you highlighted.

There is a note in the James oral history about a captured German vehicle and I wondered if the non T could be that same vehicle. I can't explain the different bonnet arrangement on the third vehicle from the left but no doubt there were "exigencies of the service" then, just as there are now. The vehicle is pretty obviously a T.

I don't think the 1916 and 1917 bodies were the same and I'll attach a couple of pics to illustrate. The earlier ones seemed to have a Vickers or Lewis mounted generally rearward, while the 17 Ts used the Lewis mounted forward on a post near the passengers windscreen (LHS). I'm re-creating one of these vehicles and this is one area that I'm still struggling with.

BTW that insignia on the front 17 Ts radiator is the Australian coat of arms with a centred palm tree - I think you can faintly see this same vehicle in the Aleppo line up, you posted. It's towards the right of the line, looking at the cars.

[lynx42]

Originally Posted by Lang

Vehicle number 3 is also a mystery (round top radiator and high bonnet hinge???) The Model T tall radiator did not come out until 1923 so not that.

You Are right about Vehicle no3. being out of the norm.

It is a Sizaire et Naudin. Sizaire Frères et Naudin was a French automobile manufacturer based in Paris between 1905 and 1921.

Certainly an unusual car to find on patrol.

Regards Rick

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

Hi Lang - is this what you are looking for?

Bob

[JackM]

Originally Posted by lynx42

You Are right about Vehicle no3. being out of the norm.

It is a Sizaire et Naudin. Sizaire Frères et Naudin was a French automobile manufacturer based in Paris between 1905 and 1921.

Certainly an unusual car to find on patrol.

If you're referring to the third vehicle from the standing soldier on the left of the picture, then I'm not sure that you're right, Rick.

The French machine has a 10 spoke wheel on the front (but 12 on the rears - presumably to cope with the occasional additional weight ?), while the T has 12. Could the wheels be interchangeable ?

The front of the French vehicle is very different to the third T in the pic and the lights, radiators and the long cowl (from windscreen to bonnet) appear dissimilar.

We know from James' history that the 1st Australian Light Car Patrol had six Ts and the photo shows that - with an extra 7th vehicle which could be the captured German car (of unknown lineage), which he mentions briefly.

[Lang]

Thank you everyone for the interest - and it is a very interesting bit of our history quickly being lost.

I will pass this on to the Kiwi's who already have a Model T ambulance beside a WW1 fighter in a life-size diarama in the museum. There are several mentions of the Kiwis helping to suppress the upitty Arabs at Siwa in patrol cars, so they seem to have had them also and probably later in Palestine as well.

They want to build a couple of the patrol cars to take part in the WW1 aircraft flying section of the Wanaka air show (when Baron von Nasty gets forced down by Sir Percy Goodfellow and the patrol cars race to capture him). Might not be as spectacular as last show when a full size V2 rocket on its launch ramp was blown to bits at the last moment by Spitfires and Mustangs only 50 metres from the crowd - a few singed eyebrows!

Best show in the Southern Hemisphere, worth a trip.

Lang

[Lang]

Here is what the Kiwis have already.

[Local Chap]

That's not the Wanaka Museum, it's the Omaka Aviation Heritage Centre near Blenheim, the one financed by Peter Jackson..

[Lang]

Yes, I know it is Omaka but many of the same guys are involved in the Wanaka show and the T's would probably finish up at Omaka after they did their acting.