1st Hussars and Holy Roller & Perry Kitson

[James P]

The tank Holy Roller a veteran of the Second World War should be brought indoors, restored (and kept indoors) and given the respect it deserves. Anything less then a full on, top to bottom, restoration is just kicking the can down the road as it rots away from the inside out.

[Ed Storey]

I couldn't agree more.

[James P]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/londo...ndon-1.5975322

[Ed Storey]

Perhaps now is the time to change the 'playbook' and provide this iconic vehicle that is loved so much with the proper indoor display it so rightly deserves.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by James P

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/londo...ndon-1.5975322

"More information about the fundraising campaign can be found at https://www.holyrollermemorial.ca/"

[James P]

Some brainless retard spraying a stupid message on a monument tank or artifact is expected. Interesting read in the comments of the "Karens" posting their faux outrage at monuments like this. Boy oh boy, has the gene pool in Canada ever been weakened is my take.

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

Originally Posted by James P

Some brainless retard spraying a stupid message on a monument tank or artifact is expected. Interesting read in the comments of the "Karens" posting their faux outrage at monuments like this. Boy oh boy, has the gene pool in Canada ever been weakened is my take.

I guess the effort, perseverance and skill to make such weapons that defeated an evil regime should be forgotten?

Sure, let's remove the evidence and lessons (not to mention sacrifice) of previous wars and they will never ever NEVER EVER happen again.

...oh wait...just maybe it could be the exact opposite.

f'n karens

[Stewart Loy]

https://london.ctvnews.ca/holy-rolle...tion-1.5460752

LONDON, ONT. -- A tank is moving through the streets of London today.

The famous Holy Roller, one of two Canadian Sherman tanks to survive World War II, is moving to Fanshawe College to be restored.

The move is part of a planned restoration for the memorial which will take roughly a year at the college.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Holy Roller leaves Victoria Park (June 2021):

https://youtu.be/qS2OX0n-VK8

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Holy Roller leaves Victoria Park (June 2021):

https://youtu.be/qS2OX0n-VK8

$70,000 to move and $250,000 to sandblast and paint?? And that's with volunteer help???? ?? Maybe I'm missing something but for that kind of money you could probably give Holly Roller a full restoration and maybe even get it running. I'm a little put off it's going back outside on its concrete pad, but that's just me.

[David Dunlop]

You’re not alone, Bruce.

David

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

Originally Posted by David Dunlop

You’re not alone, Bruce.

I bet for 10 grand you could cast a decent fiberglass copy to keep the park dwellers happy (that's assuming they don't 'cancel it' because of its violent oppressor past anyway. I note that fiberglass Spitfires are replacing rare and expensive real ones on plinths) and spend all that moola to do the works on the original. Damned if it doesn't deserve it.

[Jakko Westerbeke]

Originally Posted by Bruce Parker

$70,000 to move and $250,000 to sandblast and paint?? And that's with volunteer help????

Heh, and to think another Sherman is being restored back to presentable condition on a budget of €75,000, or about CAN$110,000 at the moment. I guess some of the difference may be explained by that one being done mostly by museum volunteers, with help to move it from the Army, but still … CAN$320,000 sounds like this one is being done entirely by commercial companies.

[James P]

Originally Posted by Bruce Parker

$70,000 to move and $250,000 to sandblast and paint?? And that's with volunteer help???? ?? Maybe I'm missing something but for that kind of money you could probably give Holly Roller a full restoration and maybe even get it running. I'm a little put off it's going back outside on its concrete pad, but that's just me.

No Bruce. It is not just you who feels that way about the fate of the tank. Thats a crazy amount of money spent for what end...........that veteran tank deserves better.

[Michael R.]

Originally Posted by Bruce Parker

$70,000 to move and $250,000 to sandblast and paint?? And that's with volunteer help???? ?? Maybe I'm missing something but for that kind of money you could probably give Holly Roller a full restoration and maybe even get it running. I'm a little put off it's going back outside on its concrete pad, but that's just me.

Bruce: if we accept your interpretation of cost estimates presented in the video:
CAD $70,000.00 to move it... is that one way to the shop?
CAD $250,000.00 for refurbishment by volunteer staff and students at Fanshawe College. . .

the video may have done more fund raiser damage than good.

How alarming it is to see the disparity of commercial interests between different countries. I wager in a country that was liberated during WWII, an opportunity to participate in such an event may not be financially motivated.

Perhaps someone at the project could explain the cost estimates in terms such as time and materials? Perry? Gordon?

If the current information is accurate, I am less motivated to financially support such disbursements.


.

[Bob Carriere]

Not that we could do much about it....

But one item....sandblasting...would be huge. A commercial firm would have to contain all the sand and paint particles and dispose of it in a special contaminated soil dump site bagged and in sealed 45 gallon drums....... we are lucky to be able to sand blast in rural areas with almost total disregards to safety, municipal, provincial regulations and laws. Shhhhttttttt!

Now imagine doing the inside after stripping all the components.

.....and then some idiot will paint on it in blood red as it is an instrument of mass destruction. In my mind, so is a helpful serving of pork and beans.

Nothing to cheer about.

[Michael R.]

Originally Posted by Bob Carriere

Not that we could do much about it....

But one item....sandblasting...would be huge. A commercial firm would have to contain all the sand and paint particles and dispose of it in a special contaminated soil dump site bagged and in sealed 45 gallon drums...

Now imagine doing the inside after stripping all the components.
...
Nothing to cheer about.

Yeah, Bobbie, however: if it is simply being returned to sit outside and go through the deterioration process again, why bother with the inside? For that matter, why bother at all? What a colossal waste.

I wonder what the invoice would look like if the vehicle had been transported to Franklins in Woodstock. Given that a similar hull of an SPG was done there for less than $2,000.00 it makes me wonder if we got the facts straight on how the $250k is to be spent.

[rob love]

The museum here in Shilo had a Russian tank sandblasted in situ and camo'd with Enduro primer and paint. Now this was about 4 years ago but the whole job cost $4500. For the price of $250,000 I suspect you will be getting a lot more than a sandblast and a paint job. But there is no point going too far in restoration for a static monument. Any glass you put into it like headlamps or vision blocks will just become target practice for the local youth.

[Ed Storey]

It is the same old story, we love this tank so much that we want to spend a small fortune to restore it only to once again stick it outside in a park to let the kids climb on it and the birds nest in it. I like Bruce's idea to have a fibreglass copy made to place in the park so that the original can be properly restored, but sadly that kind of progressive thinking usually does not come to mind by the people who organize these types of high-profile vanity projects.

[James P]

Waste of time and money to blow a wad of cash sandblasting and repainting to rededicate as a monument outdoors, maybe do a little ribbon cutting ceremony for the city mayor, then all march off to the mess for a hearty round of back patting. Total tear down, ground up, full on back to running condition RESTORATION with indoor display afterwards. The way Canadian governments at all levels are throwing money about these days the costs to do so would not even move the needle or be noticed.

[Michael R.]

assume

I am not convinced we are going in the right direction in our assumption as to what the plan is for this vehicle. Rather than making myself look more of an ass/u/me, I will wait for an update from the organization.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

I agree, ideally it should be restored and placed indoors.

But let’s be glad something is being done and young people are involved in various ways:

“Holy Roller tank preservation well underway”
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/londo...rway-1.6123148


“Fanshawe students Emma Wilson and Taylor Meloche are spending their summer creating a virtual reality tour of the inside of the Holy Roller. (Angela McInnes/CBC)”

And:
https://lfpress.com/news/local-news/...ia-park-return

[James P]

Wow, now there is a old face I was surprised to see, Peter Devlin has about as much military history as Holy Roller.................I still refuse to buy in that sticking it back outside next year to start rotting away again is such a bright idea. Tens of thousands of Shermans produced to fight in the Second World War but this one (and BOMB) are breathtakingly special and deserve better, much better then this.

[edstorey]

Like James, I am not convinced that this restoration project is on the right track. The sad part is that there appears to be some serious funding available to do a proper restoration job yet no-one seems to have any vision other to once again park a historic military vehicle outside when the project is completed.

I just watched the videos and wish that the those who produce them would realize that most people have no idea what the inside of a Sherman looks like and pointing to rusty bits essentially means nothing. Likewise fancy virtual reality imagery of a rusted out tank is meaningless without a baseline to compare to. Again, homework and research is everything and so far I am not seeing any of that. I still have the impression that this is essentially a vanity project for everyone involved to pad their Linkedin and Facebook accounts.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Via Jordan Baker, no date given.

London, Ontario, Canada when Holy Roller was delivered from NWE.

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

That's on Dundas Street in London, Ontario looking east. The armoury (now a Marriott Hotel) is seen down the street directly above Holly Roller's gun mantlet.

Here's the same location today taken from google.

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

Oh, and looking at the guy in the driver's seat with the black beret and 19 set headset, and the scuff marks on the asphalt it looks like Holly Roller was a runner when Jordan's photo was taken.

[Jordan Baker]

Not my photos. Only found via FB posting by Steve Guthrie.

Here is the other one. Plus a newspaper clipping from Bill Miller.

[James P]

I wonder if the Otter on the road was a bring back vehicle also in the pic ? Looks like some sort of dog and pony going on. Those old school brick Armouries really look so cool and stand the test of time not like some slapped together concrete and glass building today. The pictures show the last of the glory days for the tank, running, original, complete, then the downward spiral starts till it is a picked over carcass plonked in a park to become play structure for kids, a shooting gallery for junkies, and a target for vandals.

[David Dunlop]

Can somebody explain the markings?

Dual bordered squares on either side of the turret and a single one centred on the back of the turret with the number ‘3’ in it?

David