Kangaroo Photos wanted

[Snowtractor]

Yeah that was it
There was a few seconds of the kangaroos, so that would be a few frames. Did you capture any more of them perchance? I can do it on my computer easy , but I can't get a copy of Patton on DVD up here.

Sean

[John McGillivray]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
I think it's British, judging by this picture sold on eBay in October 2001, showing "British tanks on way to Cleve".

From memory the sequency in "Patton" looked the same, anyway.

I have found this photo taken at the same location as the photo posted by Hanno. It is from the Concord book “British Tanks of WWII (2) Holland & Germany 1944/1945”

It was taken in the town of Kranenburg on the way to Cleve. The troops are from the 2nd Bn The Gordon Highlanders, 15th (Scottish) Division. There are two other photos of Ram Kangaroos carrying 15th Div troops in this book, however the authors do not give any source for these photos.

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Originally posted by Snowtractor
There was a few seconds of the kangaroos, so that would be a few frames. Did you capture any more of them perchance? I can do it on my computer easy , but I can't get a copy of Patton on DVD up here.

Hey you fat, lazy prick... go on Amazon.ca, type "Patton" into the search box on their DVD page and cough up $15.28 CAD for the widescreen edition.

You're welcome. In return for my marvellous research skills, I'd like copies of the screen captures for 1CACR.org, thanks.

It's OK, hold down the applause...

[servicepub (RIP)]

Originally posted by Snowtractor
Did you capture any more of them perchance? I can do it on my computer easy

Curious about the method to capture frames from a DVD. Can you explain? off-line if necessary.
I bought a copy of the Canada's "War in Colour" from CBC and would like to 'snatch' a few frames

Clive

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally posted by John McGillivray
I have found this photo taken at the same location as the photo posted by Hanno. It is from the Concord book “British Tanks of WWII (2) Holland & Germany 1944/1945”

It was taken in the town of Kranenburg on the way to Cleve. The troops are from the 2nd Bn The Gordon Highlanders, 15th (Scottish) Division. There are two other photos of Ram Kangaroos carrying 15th Div troops in this book, however the authors do not give any source for these photos.

John;

If the troops are 2 Gordons, these carriers are from the British 49th APCR (and the date would be 9 Feb 45 - from the Gordon's history).

"A" Sqn, 1st CAPCR was the only Cdn Sqn involved and they carried 6 KOSB and 7th Seaforths. "B" Sqn's carriers were all in workshops at this time.

Cheers

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Geoff Winnington-Ball
You're welcome. In return for my marvellous research skills, I'd like copies of the screen captures for 1CACR.org, thanks.

Well old man, if you really had marvellous research skills, you would have downloaded the whole WEST FRONT WAR REPORT from British Pathe.

H.

[Snowtractor]

Originally posted by servicepub
Curious about the method to capture frames from a DVD. Can you explain? off-line if necessary.
I bought a copy of the Canada's "War in Colour" from CBC and would like to 'snatch' a few frames

Hi Clive,
I just pop the dvd in to my laptop and Intervideo Wndvd 4 starts up and at any time during the play cycle I can just hit the screen capture button and it saves it in my documents file. There was an earlier post about C47 colours and I captured the C47s from "A Bridge too far" resized and posted . No real effort for the fat lazy bastard that is soon to have a greasy spot under his right shoe that needs to be wiped away (see previous post).
Sean
Guess I'll have to get a dvd of Patton now. NOT lazy...Frugal...they don't give one free DVD away with every purchase of 400 pampers you know

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by John McGillivray
from the Concord book “British Tanks of WWII (2) Holland & Germany 1944/1945”

Another scan from this book, showing a Kangaroo carrying Gordon Highlanders into Tilburg. Hopefully Mark´s additional research (hint ) will help Clive to find it in the Archives.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Geoff Winnington-Ball
Hard to say, though.... if the Ram was taken out of Canadian holding stocks and shipped to the newly forming 49APCR, they might well have never painted out the "C".

Here´s another Kangaroo of the 49th Armoured Personnel Carrier Regiment (also scanned from "British Tanks of WWII (2) Holland & Germany 1944/1945"), and it has a "C" WD no. It´s not really clear, but it seems to read as CT 40666, which my files show as being a Kangaroo in the 21st Army Group. It is not on the list of Ram Cruiser Tanks struck off charge to the British, though. CT40688 was, so maybe that is the WD no. if this picture indeed shows a 49APCR Kangaroo.

Intriguing stuff, isn´t it?

H.

[Snowtractor]

Okay , I bought the damn thing! Widescreen too, so I can look at the black bars top and bottom. We'll see how the carrier pics turn out..Kangaroo I should say.Ya'll will have to wait 4-21 days though.
Sean

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
Another scan from this book, showing a Kangaroo carrying Gordon Highlanders into Tilburg. Hopefully Mark´s additional research (hint )will help Clive to find it in the Archives.

Hi Hanno;

Again, a carrier of 49th APCR (carrying 2nd Gordons). At the time of the Liberation of Tilburg, 1st CAPC Sqn had just become a Regt (1st CAPCR) and was only operating "A" Sqn on the 28th Oct 44, whose only lift during the Liberation of Tilburg was the 9th Cameronians and 2nd Argylls.

Ref: History 15th (Scottish) Division; History Gordon Highlanders; WD 1CAPCR (24 - 31 Oct 44)

Cheers

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
Here´s another Kangaroo of the 49th Armoured Personnel Carrier Regiment (also scanned from "British Tanks of WWII (2) Holland & Germany 1944/1945"), and it has a "C" WD no. It´s not really clear, but it seems to read as CT 40666, which my files show as being a Kangaroo in the 21st Army Group. It is not on the list of Ram Cruiser Tanks struck off charge to the British, though. CT40688 was, so maybe that is the WD no. if this picture indeed shows a 49APCR Kangaroo.

Hi Hanno;

This is indeed a carrier of 49th APCR. During the 15th (Scottish) Div's operations around Blerick, all lifts were carried out by 49th APCR. 1st CAPCR were not involved in these operations (or any at this period).

Also, if you zoom in on the beret on the right, he is wearing the cap badge of the RTR (49th APCR formerly having been 49th Bn RTR). I also make out the WD No. to read 'CT 40666', but did you notice right above it is another No. 'C 5565/B'.

Cheers

[Mark W. Tonner]

Hi Clive;

Here is one to look up.

PA 137744 - "A 'Kangaroo' of 1st Armoured Personnel Carrier Regiment during Operation BLACKCOCK near Cleve, Germany, 16 February, 1945."

This would make it a Kangaroo of "A" Sqn, 1st CACR, who lifted the Royal Winnipeg Rifles (7th Inf Bde/3rd Cdn Inf Div) along the Cleve-Calcar road on 16 Feb 45.

Cheers

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
Definitely British! Now where's my bowler hat?

Hi Hanno;

Notice the "CT" prefix just visible above the 'AY' in the word 'LAYOUT'.

Cheers

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
De Markt, Tilburg, 27 October 1944, waiting for a liberation parade.

Clive, I've searched http://www.collectionscanada.ca/archivianet/, but could not find a likely "PA" number, sorry.

Hi Hanno;

These could be Kangaroos of "A" Sqn, 1st CAPCR who were harboured in Tilburg 27/28 Oct 44. Do you notice, that on the 'Kang' thats visible (one off set star (rear) and one straight star (front)), the total absence of any external stowage whatsoever. The two seem to be 'bare ass', as if, just issued and pressed into service.

Cheers

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Mark W. Tonner
Do you notice, that on the 'Kang' thats visible (one off set star (rear) and one straight star (front)), the total absence of any external stowage whatsoever. The two seem to be 'bare ass', as if, just issued and pressed into service.

Indeed. This could coincide with the fact they were sizing up from a Squadron to a Regiment around that time.

H.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by servicepub
I need Kangaroo photos!!!

I'm attaching a couple more about which I don't have details, but I hope they trigger forum members to post whatever details they can come up with.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Another one, I suspect this is a post-war shot.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Taken in Germany (judging by the house in the background)?

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Two dramatic pics, reportedly taken in Italy(!)

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
Two dramatic pics, reportedly taken in Italy(!)

Exclamation mark because as far as I know Ram Kangaroos were not used in Italy.

Can anyone come up with any sort of addtional information about these pictures?!?

H.

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
Exclamation mark because as far as I know Ram Kangaroos were not used in Italy.

Can anyone come up with any sort of addtional information about these pictures?!?

Hi Hanno;

Question, on the original photo, does the formation sign (circled in red) look anything like the example I've inserted above it?

More to follow on Kangaroo use in Italy.

Cheers

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
Exclamation mark because as far as I know Ram Kangaroos were not used in Italy.

Hi Hanno;

The use of 'RAM' Kangaroos in Italy was discussed here on the fourm before, under the thread: Kangaroos, in The Armour Forum, located: here. The main points of which were:

"At the end of October, 1944, 4th Hussars joined 9th Armd Bde and were given Kangaroo Armoured Personnel Carriers. The Kangaroo was a battle tank with its turret and ammunition stowage removed to allow as much room in the hull as possible for carrying infantry and their battle equipment across fire swept ground. There were various types, General McCreery had been so impressed by reports of their use in northern France that he gave orders in October 1944 for local conversions to be carried out. The Sherman was used first; later the more roomy hull of the Priest, self-propelled gun, was converted. The War Office promised to send out the equivalent of an infantry battalion lift from the United Kingdom, but failed to meet its obligation. In the end all 8th Army's armoured personnel carriers had to be produced in its own R.E.M.E workshops. For the Spring offensive, R.E.M.E modified 75 Sherman and 102 Priests, giving a lift of some four infantry battalions. A battalion lift of Kangaroos (4th Hussars) was ready for 8th Army's December offensive but conditions were unsuitable for their deployment. They were first used in 56th Division's successful though brief operation in January 1945 (4th Hussars).

The Armoured Personnel Carriers were operated by the 4th Hussars and the 14th/20th Hussars. The organization finally agreed to in March 1945 was:

4th Hussars:

- one APC Squadron: 53x Sherman Kangaroos
- one APC Squadron: 56x Priest Kangaroos
- one Armoured Squadron: 17x Sherman gun tanks

14th/20th Hussars:

- one APC Squadron: 40x Priest Kangaroos
- one Armoured Squadron: 28x Sherman gun tanks

4th Hussars trained with Kangaroos at Peasro. On 17th March they moved forward to 5th Corps to train with the British 56th, 78th and 8th Indian Infantry Divisions. 14th/20th Hussars joined 2nd Polish Corps on 26th March and trained with 43rd Gurkha Lorried Infantry Brigade.

From 10th April, 45 onwards, the 4th Hussars, along with the 2nd Armoured Brigade and 38th (Irish) Infantry Brigade, along with supporting arms, formed "The Kangaroo Army"."

My sources:

Primary:

- HISTORY OF THE SECOND WORLD WAR, UNITED KINGDOM MILITARY SERIES, THE MEDITERRANEAN AND MIDDLE EAST, VOLUME VI, VICTORY IN THE MEDITERRANEAN PART III, NOVEMBER 1944 TO MAY 1945 - Chapters 18, 20 and Appendix 6.

- CLEAR THE WAY! A HISTORY OF THE 38th (IRISH) BRIGADE, 1941-47 - Chapter 19

Secondary:

- A NOBLE CRUSADE, THE HISTORY OF EIGHTH ARMY 1941-45

- ALGIERS TO AUSTRIA, A HISTORY OF 78 DIVISION IN THE SECOND WORLD WAR, 1942-1946

- THE HISTORY OF THE ROYAL ULSTER RIFLES, VOLUME III

Other:

- Various Regimental/Unit Histories
- Various books and publications regarding the war in Italy

Cheers

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
I'm attaching a couple more about which I don't have details, but I hope they trigger forum members to post whatever details they can come up with.

Hanno;

Do you see (on the original) the same thing I do on this photo?

Cheers

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
Exclamation mark because as far as I know Ram Kangaroos were not used in Italy.

Can anyone come up with any sort of addtional information about these pictures?!?

Hi Hanno;

On the original photo of the below image, can you see/make out the figures '472' on the front of the tractor?

Cheers

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
I'm attaching a couple more about which I don't have details, but I hope they trigger forum members to post whatever details they can come up with.

Hi Hanno;

I found a good clear picture of the below image and have been able to identify this carrier, it belongs to 49th APCR and was taken outside of Bremen, April 1945, carrying troops of the 43rd (Wessex) Inf Div. The crewman circled is wearing the badge of the Royal Armoured Corps (insert).

Cheers

[Richard Farrant]

Originally posted by Mark W. Tonner
On the original photo of the below image, can you see/make out the figures '472' on the front of the tractor?

Mark,

Interesting looking at the Diamond T crew's accomodation. I do not remember seeing that type of canopy / tilt in use during wartime, but it was common post war with British army.

Richard

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally posted by Richard Farrant
Interesting looking at the Diamond T crew's accomodation. I do not remember seeing that type of canopy / tilt in use during wartime, but it was common post war with British army.

Hi Richard;

Three different types from the late war period, two different ones in the same convoy (top image).

Cheers

[Richard Farrant]

Originally posted by Mark W. Tonner
Three different types from the late war period, two different ones in the same convoy (top image).

They would have been a welcome addition in the winter of 44-45, some appear to have boarded ends with doors in, home from home, the envy of others no doubt.

Richard

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally posted by Richard Farrant
They would have been a welcome addition in the winter of 44-45, some appear to have boarded ends with doors in, home from home, the envy of others no doubt.

Home Sweet Home........ or has the old saying goes...."Any fool can be uncomfortable".....

Cheers