Dutch landing in Indonesia film

[Dave Page]

Hi Guys, I found this film on youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4ekc...eature=related

From 0:41 to 1:41 it shows Dutch marines landing in either Bali or Medan, while there are CMPs shown I have another interest in this; if someone could translate to English that would be very nice as I don't speak Dutch.

Of great interest to me is HMLST 3010, which was part of a top secret operation by Combined Operations to restore the Dutch. More can be read on this, here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/print/ww2people...a4607435.shtml

Part of the flotilla was HMLST 3020 and HMLST 3502, my father was in Combined Ops SE Asia Div. on HMLST 3020. I know he went into Medan, and ferried Dutch marines from the converted liner Nuie Amsterdam to the port.
Cheers,
Dave

[wim sikkelbein]

0.41 The liberation approaches. Over 2000 soldiers from the KNIL, for the most part ex-POW’s, go ashore with unloaded rifles 0.50
1.11 The first meeting. The Japanese report themselves. 1.14
1.24 With heavy landingships food, cars and even planes are brought ashore and there is much use for Japanese labour. 1.32

[RHClarke]

2:00 minute mark.

[Lang]

While these films are news-of-the-day for home consumption in Holland the real story was a disgraceful episode in western behaviour. As these idyllic shots were being taken there was already heavy fighting going on against the Indonesians who had made it abundantly clear they did not want the Dutch to return.

I will leave it to the British and Dutch fellows to comment on their side of the story but it certainly was a low point in Australian political and military history as we provided a large part of the reoccupation force (the Dutch were in no position to make a huge effort after so many years of occupation). Australian troops fought several largish battles and Australian Air Force squadrons flattened numerous very marginally military targets.

In many areas the Japanese were left armed to control the local population until such time as allied forces could set up in the area. Of course quite a number Japanese (particularly officers and senior NCO's) joined up on the other side and fought as "advisers" to the Indonesians.

I think the reason we now know little of this post-war campaign in Australia, although it was a short but large operation for our relatively small army is it has been swept under the rug to minimize embarrassment.

Anyhow it didn't work and the Indonesians prevailed in a very short time and gained their independence.

What is the common thread in all this continuing to 2010 - oil!

[2nd AIF]

Originally Posted by Dave Page

From 0:41 to 1:41 it shows Dutch marines landing in either Bali or Medan, while there are CMPs shown I have another interest in this; if someone could translate to English that would be very nice as I don't speak Dutch.Cheers,Dave

Amphibious landing by Dutch (KNIL) troops at Sanur beach, Bali, March 1946.

http://www.gimonca.com/sejarah/sejarah08.shtml

[Dave Page]

Hi Guys,
thanks for the translation; it all adds to the puzzle. Not surprizing there was a 50 year embargo on the whole operation.
My father did say that they were unaware that the Dutch were not welcome, they even had a run-in with Dutch forces one day in Medan. While on "shore patrol" and unarmed, no less, they stopped for a drink at a local bar only to be run out at gun point by the Dutch who then took over the bar. The "shore patrol" , which was led by an Officer, returned to the ship, armed themselves and returned to the bar where they disarmed the Dutch telling them that if they wanted their weapons they could collect them from the ship.
Needless to say the Dutch command protested strongly, this led to the "shore patrol" receiving a "reprimand" from the Captain (that was a bit naughty, the natives could have killed them, don't do it again even if the bastards deserve it).
Cheers,
Dave

[malcolm erik bogaert]

many years ago my old Col.told me soldiers should never get involved in Politics...its not nice to embarrass our nederland friends with this......Belgians behaved bad in the Congo... Us British all over the world...Australians with there own natives..apart from the good old USA with the Indians....thats the way things were at the time...if I remember rightly we had to send our own British Pratorian Guard to sort out the Indonesians who where at the time invading somebody else!!!! best regards malcolm

[Lang]

Malcolm,

I did not wish to offend anyone but denying history is not a very sensible thing to do. This period was within or just before the lifetime of most of our members - not from an earlier century.

I made no comment on Dutch involvement other than to state the obvious that their return was unwelcome. My comments were restricted to Australian involvement and most opinion is that having just fought a bloody war for "freedom" and the release of numerous countries from occupation, here we were trying to reinstate unwelcome masters in another country.

Not only the Dutch but the British, French, Americans and other western nations were equally culpable in their colonies (and support of each other) and the double standards of WW2 versus colonial occupation resulted in hundreds of thousands of deaths and misery right up to the 1970's. Australia was there boots and all (If they ever held a war and we were not invited we would be really p--ed off!).

The fact that many of these previously occupied countries have turned out to be rotten, corrupt and murderous societies is really none of our business.

I think we should use our armies to be on the side of the oppressed not the oppressors. But only if they jump the fence into their next door neighbour's yard. Fortunately we seem to be coming around to that point of view though politics, oil and money can strangely twist the reins on the white knight's horse.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Lang,

Although I am not from the generation who was there when it happened, I do have some knowledge of that part of Dutch history. I have family who both lived there during the colonial days (pre-WW2) and who served there during the "police actions" (post-WW2).

The Dutch really had a sense of doing good in Indonesia. Indeed, over time the Dutch reigns did bring the country some good like proper governance, education, health etc. But it was a big moneymaker, too.

During WW2 the Indonesians came to realise the wanted to be the master of their own destiny, declared independence in 1945, and chose to fight for that right. The Dutch did not declare war - Indonesia was still "the Netherlands East Indies", part of the Kingdom, as far as the Netherlands were concerned - so they sent over troops for "police actions". As one does when there are riots in a certain area of the Kingdom.
Interestingly, Indonesia was initially "re-possessed" by British troops, who after the Japanese surrender had taken over strategic positions in the Pacific region. It was not before March 1946 when the British allowed the Dutch troops to land and take over British positions.
These military actions were more concerned about taking control again over the big plantations, natural resources, etc. rather than restoring peace and re-instating governance, education, health care etc. So money prevailed over doing good for the people. We know how this ended. After the loss of many lives (5,000 Dutch and some 150,000 Indonesians) and huge cost, the Netherlands finally succumbed in 1949 and granted Indonesia their independence. Since then, the Dutch governments have always tried to make good by sending over all sorts of aid (incl. military).

Whatever; I personally hope mankind would have learned from these types of mistakes. But alas, even today we still go to countries far away to bring peace and democracy with a sword because we think it is the right way to do so . . . but in reality is driven by political or economic motives.

Hanno

[Lang]

Hanno,

I don't know if we are getting any better with Iraq and Afghanistan festering away but at least the people of western nations know a lot more these days of what is going on with their politicians' decisions.

We can but hope that one day the west will learn to keep their noses out of other peoples' business and only respond to genuine calls for help totally uninfluenced by greed or political grandstanding.

Lang

[Dave Page]

Hi Guys,
first let me explain, I am not pointing fingers at any side, Dutch, Indonesian British nor even Japanese during that period (1946). I bear no ill will toward those that served, if they did so honourably, and even then it is all in the past, it is done. There are lessons to be learned by all, let's hope we can remember those lessons. Every serviceman or woman has a tale to tell, listen to them, you don't have to like it nor agree with their actions we should not sit back and judge them - that would smack of arrogance.

I was merely sharing a vignette in my father's RN, Combined Ops., SEAC service, service he was proud of. I think I would have done the same if my quiet beer had been interupted in such a manner. It was only during the Captain's chat they became aware of the politics involved.
I will also say that a Dutch officer who was ferried from the Nuie Amsterdam into Medan, possibly by my father, became my brother's father-in-law, and if that doesn't raise the hairs on the back of your neck, my in-laws were also in Medan at that very time.
Cheers,
Dave

[malcolm erik bogaert]

Good point...and I agree...lets hope our brave lads can come home soon from the current shitholes.....and on a note closer to home Im praying the micks dont kick off again! best regards malcolm

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Dave Page

I bear no ill will toward those that served, if they did so honourably, and even then it is all in the past, it is done. There are lessons to be learned by all, let's hope we can remember those lessons. Every serviceman or woman has a tale to tell, listen to them, you don't have to like it nor agree with their actions we should not sit back and judge them - that would smack of arrogance.

Dave,

You are very right in the sense that people should realise Von Clausewitz's famous quote: "War is a mere continuation of politics by other means".

So if with the benefit of hindsight someone establishes that a certain war was wrong, then we should not blame the soldiers who were there carrying out their job. Very often, if not always, they do not have a choice. Their government chose to send them and ordered them to fight a war. Disobeying such an order is an offence for which a soldier will be punished.

I know a few soldiers, some of them fought in a "wrong" war, but I never hold it against them for the simple fact that they did not choose to do so, they were ordered to do so. And as long as they adhere to the rules of war, they as a person have not done wrong. Their leader might have, though.

Sometimes a tough subject, I think.

Hanno

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Lang

I don't know if we are getting any better with Iraq and Afghanistan festering away but at least the people of western nations know a lot more these days of what is going on with their politicians' decisions.

We can but hope that one day the west will learn to keep their noses out of other peoples' business and only respond to genuine calls for help totally uninfluenced by greed or political grandstanding.

Lang,

Exactly. Our goverment fell recently over the "to stay or not to stay" question. They had put down an end date and one of the coalition parties tried to change the public mind. Presumed public pressure led to the other big party in the goverment coalition to take a stand and keep their word of pulling out this year after we finish our tour.

Yes I know, some people think it is the same thing, but it has little to do with the quality of the job our military are doing in Afghanistan.

Hanno

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Dave Page

Part of the flotilla was HMLST 3020 and HMLST 3502, my father was in Combined Ops SE Asia Div. on HMLST 3020. I know he went into Medan, and ferried Dutch marines from the converted liner Nuie Amsterdam to the port.

Dave,

I presume you refer to SS Nieuw Amsterdam (New Amsterdam): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Nieuw_Amsterdam_(1937) ?

Hanno

[Lang]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Exactly. Our goverment fell recently over the "to stay or not to stay" question. They had put down an end date and one of the coalition parties tried to change the public mind. Presumed public pressure led to the other big party in the goverment coalition to take a stand and keep their word of pulling out this year after we finish our tour.

Yes I know, some people think it is the same thing, but it has little to do with the quality of the job our military are doing in Afghanistan.

Hanno,

As you know the Australian and Dutch troops share the same camp in Afghanistan. We were approached by Obama to replace the Dutch when they withdrew but I think the Australian Government have got wind of the discontent in the community about our involvement in yet another no-win war and declined. So we stay at a couple of thousand troops - forever???

They did concede to send a few more Chinook Army helicopters but no more infantry.

Lang