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  #1  
Old 31-01-19, 14:39
Tim Bell's Avatar
Tim Bell Tim Bell is offline
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Default Firefly Markings

All

Am getting to the stage of thinking about what markings are correct for my Firefly and where they need to go.

Intention is to mark this as 21st Canadian Armoured Regt, correct for July 44 onwards (vehicle is known to have been struck off service with GGFG in June 45)

So, my thoughts based on period photos around are:
  • Allied star in solid circle on engine deck
  • T289477 census number on side in dark blue/black
  • "51" in White on Red background for GGFG front and rear UK Driver side
  • "4th Div Formation Sign" front and rear UK Passenger side
  • Red Square on Turret Side and centre rear plate
  • Shipping data on sides (I have photo for this)
  • Tank name on sides (I have photo for this)
  • Bridge plate in yellow on front UK driver side

Is this correct please?

If not what do I need to change?

Many thanks

Tim
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  #2  
Old 31-01-19, 18:10
tankbarrell tankbarrell is offline
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It is likely the T number would be in white towards the front too.
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  #3  
Old 02-02-19, 09:41
Jack Geratic Jack Geratic is offline
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Only other marking it possibly could have is the tactical number, or sometimes referred to as radio call sign number. A complete sample from 4th CAD diary is found here:
http://heritage.canadiana.ca/view/oo...45/222?r=0&s=4

Without an actual photo, it is difficult to say if they were utilized in July.

regards,
Jack
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  #4  
Old 02-02-19, 15:46
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Dan Martel Dan Martel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Geratic View Post
Only other marking it possibly could have is the tactical number, or sometimes referred to as radio call sign number. A complete sample from 4th CAD diary is found here:
http://heritage.canadiana.ca/view/oo...45/222?r=0&s=4
Great resource. Thanks for posting.

Squadrons with Firefly tanks were organized with four rather than five troops. The troops had four rather than three tanks. The fourth tank in each troop was the Firefly. This should be kept in mind if considering using troop numbers.

Cheers,
Dan.
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  #5  
Old 02-02-19, 21:53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Geratic View Post
Only other marking it possibly could have is the tactical number, or sometimes referred to as radio call sign number. A complete sample from 4th CAD diary is found here:
http://heritage.canadiana.ca/view/oo...45/222?r=0&s=4

Without an actual photo, it is difficult to say if they were utilized in July.

regards,
Jack
Jack

Some great stuff in there... the pages just before this one have loads of drawings showing you how to mark all sorts of vehicles (sadly not the Firefly) thanks. I will have to look through the 1944 war diaries to see if there is a more recent version of the drawings which does include the Firefly.

Cheers

Tim
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  #6  
Old 03-02-19, 00:52
Jack Geratic Jack Geratic is offline
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Tim, glad to be of some help.

There is lots of info in those diaries. Wish the government, or whoever they hired to digitize the 1353 rolls, had provided an index or at least listed some highlights as to what is on each roll. Instead they've just assigned a number for each entry.

http://heritage.canadiana.ca/view/oo...c_mikan_133700

regards,
Jack
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  #7  
Old 03-02-19, 17:34
MicS MicS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Bell View Post
All

Am getting to the stage of thinking about what markings are correct for my Firefly and where they need to go.

Intention is to mark this as 21st Canadian Armoured Regt, correct for July 44 onwards (vehicle is known to have been struck off service with GGFG in June 45)

So, my thoughts based on period photos around are:
  • Allied star in solid circle on engine deck
  • T289477 census number on side in dark blue/black
  • "51" in White on Red background for GGFG front and rear UK Driver side
  • "4th Div Formation Sign" front and rear UK Passenger side
  • Red Square on Turret Side and centre rear plate
  • Shipping data on sides (I have photo for this)
  • Tank name on sides (I have photo for this)
  • Bridge plate in yellow on front UK driver side

Is this correct please?

If not what do I need to change?

Many thanks

Tim
Hi Tim,

I suppose that by "UK driver side" you mean the right side of the tank (i.e. the right side when looking at the tank from the rear)?

In any case, on GGFG tanks, and perhaps on all Canadian tanks if the Marking Instructions as per the links by Jack Geratic above were obeyed, the 51+Formation Sign combination should look the same when viewed from rear or from front, which means they should be on opposite sides rear and front:

- 51 on left, Fmn Sign on right on the front of the tank when facing it
- 51 on left, Fmn Sign on right on rear of tank when looking at the tank from the rear.

http://heritage.canadiana.ca/view/oo...45/220?r=0&s=6
http://heritage.canadiana.ca/view/oo...45/221?r=0&s=6

See this photo of a GGFG tank crossing a ponton bridge at Elbeuf on 28 August 1944, where the 51 on the rear is on the "UK Passenger side":


Michel
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Sherman V D3 GGFG, Elbeuf 28 Aug 44 - PA-113660.jpg  
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  #8  
Old 04-02-19, 15:19
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Tim Bell Tim Bell is offline
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Michel

Great photo - I have not seen that one before.

Excellent reference for the allied star on the engine deck too.

Also - Good point about how the formation and unit markings appear... I will look at that again more closely on some other photos.

Need to get this right first time if I can and not have annoying errors - attention to detail is key.

Thanks

Tim
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  #9  
Old 04-02-19, 21:32
Jack Geratic Jack Geratic is offline
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I've found there has been work done in categorizing the Canada War Diaries.
It is a spreadsheet in xls format, so you need software to open that type of file.

Latest update was posted March 13, 2017.
http://ww2talk.com/index.php?resourc...preadsheet.21/

Once you find the subject that interests you, make note of the film roll number and head to the War Diaries site:
http://heritage.canadiana.ca/view/oo...c_mikan_133700

regards,
Jack
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  #10  
Old 05-02-19, 08:41
Maurice Donckers Maurice Donckers is offline
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Tim there are also several pictures where the star with circle is on top of the turret
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  #11  
Old 05-02-19, 19:44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maurice Donckers View Post
Tim there are also several pictures where the star with circle is on top of the turret
Maurice - thanks - I will bear that in mind.

Hoping though the flat rear engine deck is an acceptable location - this will be much easier to paint I think.

Cheers

Tim
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  #12  
Old 06-02-19, 08:30
Maurice Donckers Maurice Donckers is offline
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ha , but then you can`t transport your sandwiches on the rear deck .
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  #13  
Old 06-02-19, 09:30
tankbarrell tankbarrell is offline
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Another well known pic of stars on the decks.
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  #14  
Old 06-02-19, 16:53
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Tim Bell Tim Bell is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maurice Donckers View Post
ha , but then you can`t transport your sandwiches on the rear deck .
We wont have much ammo onboard, so I think there will be space inside.

Tim
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