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  #1  
Old 11-04-10, 20:39
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RichardT10829 RichardT10829 is offline
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Default Wireless Set 19

I have been looking at these for some time to start slowly collecting bits for my carrier, can anyone advise what should be present for a 1942 Canadian Mk1 carrier ? i presume 2 - 3 head sets, base unit, leads, junction box x 2 ?, antennas ? any idea's ?

* Is there a place this stuff can be purchased at a reasonable price ?

* do you really need a licence to own a working unit in the UK ?

* does anyone have any pictures of their own WS19 setups they would be willing to post up ?

cheers in advance guys

Richie
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__5th Div___46th Div__
1942 Ford Universal Carrier No.3 MkI*
Lower Hull No. 10131
War Department CT54508 (SOLD)
1944 Ford Universal Carrier MkII* (under restoration).
1944 Morris C8 radio body (under restoration).
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  #2  
Old 12-04-10, 10:56
tankbarrell tankbarrell is offline
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Richard, to some extent, the wireless installation depends on the use of the carrier but the standard set up for a Mk 1 is:-

19 set mk 2 c/w power supply unit no1
carrier no22
Aerial base no9
Aerial base no10
Control unit no2 mk 2
Control unit no1 mk2
Secondary batteries
Charging set.
Plus a variety of leads, mounting brackets etc etc. most of whish are specific to installation.

All the parts can be found in the usual places with the exception of the batteries, i.e. ebay but parts are getting harder to find and hence expensive!

No licence is required unless you transmit or intend to do so but be aware that some elements radiate a signal even when on receive so it's best not to take the chance.
Also be aware that the set is full of electrolytic capacitors which will have degenerated over time. If you apply full voltage, they will explode spectacularly! They can be reformed with care but I would advise getting someone who knows what they are doing as the HT side of the PSU generates very high voltages.

If it's just for show then it's no problem.

Adrian
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  #3  
Old 12-04-10, 11:16
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Lynn Eades Lynn Eades is offline
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Default Adrian

Thanks for that very informative post
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  #4  
Old 12-04-10, 12:30
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Cheers Adrian i would prefer a working one but by the sounds of it they are a bit of a time bomb..... i suppose the question would have to be raised (if you got a working one who the hell would you talk to) hahahahaha anything will do if its correct to the period etc
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__5th Div___46th Div__
1942 Ford Universal Carrier No.3 MkI*
Lower Hull No. 10131
War Department CT54508 (SOLD)
1944 Ford Universal Carrier MkII* (under restoration).
1944 Morris C8 radio body (under restoration).
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  #5  
Old 12-04-10, 13:15
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As it has been explained to me. You need a Ham Radio Licence to transmit with a WS19. More involved than you might think??
My WS19 used to be in the back of my Morris. I was at a show in Poole some years ago and as mine is still able to transmit. I was talking (on the B set) to my mate in his Dingo who was parked next to me. An old Radio Ham guy got talking to us. He explained that the B set has a very short range horizontally...But vertically it could reach a Jumbo Jet...OOPS! Name withheld
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  #6  
Old 12-04-10, 13:55
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Bruce Parker has got all the info/paper work for outfitting a Carrier Mk1* with a WS19. He sent me a copy of it all a few years ago. Perhaps check with him.

I Canada you need a license as well to transmit.

One word of caution though. As much as I'd love my WS19 to work in the carrier I wouldn't fell to safe using it at an event. The amount of power going to the antenna is huge and it would be so easy for someone to come up beside the carrier and grab onto it and be touching the hull and grounded all at the same time. Im quite happy having it just sit there for people to look at.
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P1010271.jpg  
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  #7  
Old 12-04-10, 15:25
Neil Ashley Neil Ashley is offline
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Providing you have no intention of operating the Radio the chances of ever being challenged over the possession of a working radio set are extremely rare. I have never heard of it happening.

The Amateur Radio Society (or similar name) do courses where you can obtain the basic foundation licence for legal operation. I did mine over a weekend some years ago.

A Mobile Phone will provide a far more reliable method of communication.
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  #8  
Old 12-04-10, 16:01
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hahahahaha indeed but less nostalgic.... unless you use an old motorola brick with rubber antenna i would hate to think of someone grabbing the antenna on a carrier if they didnt get fragged they would have a nasty RF burn i would think.

none working it will be then. thanks for posting up guys..... if anyone wishes to showcase they're sets please do, its always interesting to see how people have done it..

Richie
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__5th Div___46th Div__
1942 Ford Universal Carrier No.3 MkI*
Lower Hull No. 10131
War Department CT54508 (SOLD)
1944 Ford Universal Carrier MkII* (under restoration).
1944 Morris C8 radio body (under restoration).
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  #9  
Old 12-04-10, 18:39
Bruce MacMillan Bruce MacMillan is offline
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Your basic kit would depend upon the year you are representing. The MKIIIs were introduced in spring of 1943. In early July, 1943, there was a demand released for over 600 MKIII units for use with carriers.

Installations came as two kits. There was the basic set which included radio,power supply, some antennas, variometer, spares kits, etc.

An installation kit was then ordered for the type of vehicle. This included cables & mounting hardware unique to that vehicle.

The photos are the basic kit, carrier installation kit & part numbers.
Attached Thumbnails
basic.jpg   carrier1.jpg   carrier2.jpg  
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  #10  
Old 12-04-10, 18:50
Neil Ashley Neil Ashley is offline
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Obviously the number of Carriers actually fitted with wireless at this stage would have been extremely limited so the choice is yours whether to fit.

Don't forget the Chorehorse Generator necessary to charge the batteries.
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  #11  
Old 12-04-10, 19:13
Dave Page Dave Page is offline
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Default Ws19

Hi Guys,
you will only get an RF burn while the WS19 is transmitting (TX) unless you have an X.5,5KV MkII Condenser fitted, which has stored the charge from TX. Removing the 500v fuse will disable the TX side of the WS while still allowing RX. If you are convinced that the shock from the 'A' aerial will be something you will just shake off, bear in mind that on TX, with PA and Vario tuned just right, a 110v 40 watt light bulb used as a dummy load will glow.

Laws vary so you may want to check; I believe in the UK -mere- possession of the parts is enough to get you in a lot of trouble should the plod not like your face.

As for the 'B' set, while it may be a very low powered AM set (.4 watts) it also radiates on FM. I tested my set out to 100 yards, and picked the signal up on a Sony "Watchman", which is an FM receiver. This was not done at a show; one doesn't want to temp fate. Caution is the watchword.
Cheers,
Dave
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  #12  
Old 12-04-10, 22:24
tankbarrell tankbarrell is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Page View Post
Laws vary so you may want to check; I believe in the UK -mere- possession of the parts is enough to get you in a lot of trouble should the plod not like your face.
Cheers,
Dave
No, it's been confirmed recently on the 19 set group that there is no problem with possession, it's transmitting or an intention to do so that will get you in trouble.
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  #13  
Old 12-04-10, 23:01
Bruce MacMillan Bruce MacMillan is offline
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I can't say what laws are still on the books in England but here in Canada it is still unlawful to possess a transmitter unless you are duly licensed. From our Radio Act R2, Section 4 - prohibitions:

(1) No person shall, except under and in accordance with a radio authorization, install, operate or possess radio apparatus, other than
(a) radio apparatus exempted by or under regulations made under paragraph 6(1)(m); or
(b) radio apparatus that is capable only of the reception of broadcasting and that is not a distribution undertaking.

Having said that I feel the feds have no money, time, or inclination to pursue people unless they are causing interference. Like many laws here that are still on the books, it's one of those just-in-case things.

What "is capable" is up to interpretation as well. Some people think pulling the fuse or output tube is sufficient however the set may be capable of transmitting by replacing the item. Where's a lawyer when you need one.
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  #14  
Old 13-04-10, 04:20
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Another thing about military radios is that you may not transmit with the radio unless it has be modified or tuned so not to use the military asigned frequencies. I used to know a chap who bought a pair of army surplus 510 sets and got a severe warning after he and a friend used them to talk back and forth while hunting.
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  #15  
Old 13-04-10, 04:34
Bruce Parker Bruce Parker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tankbarrell View Post
Richard, to some extent, the wireless installation depends on the use of the carrier but the standard set up for a Mk 1 is:-

19 set mk 2 c/w power supply unit no1
carrier no22
Aerial base no9
Aerial base no10
Control unit no2 mk 2
Control unit no1 mk2
Secondary batteries
Charging set.
Plus a variety of leads, mounting brackets etc etc. most of whish are specific to installation.

Adrian
There was no charging set on a Mk.1 carrier. They were often added later, but there was no provision for one. Fresh batteries were brought to the carrier each morning, much like rations, and exchanged for the dead ones. These were taken back for charging in a lead lined 'Machinery I' 60 cwt truck. You also couldn't run the 12 volt negative ground wireless set off the 6 volt positive ground vehicle electrical system.

Last edited by Bruce Parker; 13-04-10 at 04:40.
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  #16  
Old 13-04-10, 08:33
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Here's a drawing from Military Vehicles Profiles.
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04a Carrier Mk1.jpg  
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  #17  
Old 13-04-10, 10:40
tankbarrell tankbarrell is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Parker View Post
There was no charging set on a Mk.1 carrier. They were often added later, but there was no provision for one. Fresh batteries were brought to the carrier each morning, much like rations, and exchanged for the dead ones. These were taken back for charging in a lead lined 'Machinery I' 60 cwt truck. You also couldn't run the 12 volt negative ground wireless set off the 6 volt positive ground vehicle electrical system.

Thanks for the correction Bruce, I added the charging set as an afterthought as I knew the set required batteries. Never guess!
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  #18  
Old 13-04-10, 19:35
George McKenzie George McKenzie is offline
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Default Wireless Set 19

I have a new complete MK2 19 Set still in the box .I can send you pictures if you like .I hate to put it in one of my vehicles . It has English and Russian on it .Likely was intended for lend-lease .Thanks for all the information guys .I wasn't aware of some of the tricks this little devel could cause
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  #19  
Old 13-04-10, 22:29
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Here is the installation in my MK2. Also the line drawing that I more or less copied for my Welsh Guard Stowage configuration. Ron
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Carrier 056.jpg   Carrier 053.jpg   Carrier 054.jpg  
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  #20  
Old 12-05-10, 16:11
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Smile nice Mk2 pics thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Pier View Post
Here is the installation in my MK2. Also the line drawing that I more or less copied for my Welsh Guard Stowage configuration. Ron
Hi Ron, thats a lovely setup you have there! The stowage diagram is really helpful too. I have a Mk2 and a 19 set with vario and leads but am trying to complete the setup too- did you have all original or did you source repro items?? and (sorry to ask the questions) which aerial set did you use?
Best wishes from an avid admirer of all you guys' work!
David
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  #21  
Old 12-05-10, 17:22
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Thanks for the compliment David. I'm not an expert on the 19 set instalation, which is why I tend to look for pictures to copy. I connected my 'A' set to the front antenna, in middle of front bulkhead, and the 'B' set to it's antenna on the left side front corner. The comanders remote unit is just behind his head. My wireless station was purchased some years ago and a fully working original set up. Ron
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  #22  
Old 12-05-10, 19:22
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Thumbs up thanks for the info Ron

I love the pics! very nice setup. Does the 19 work?? (I know there are MULTIPLE problems with doing that, just asking....)
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  #23  
Old 13-05-10, 14:18
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Yes Dave It was fully working and transmitting. Although I haven't fired it up for years now! As you say there can be a problem with blowing up capacitors or something? Apparently if they are not used regularly they need to be powered up initially on a reduced amperage to get the capacitors back to life gently. Someone here will explain more fully.

Ron
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  #24  
Old 20-09-11, 00:11
Ralph Volkert Ralph Volkert is offline
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The problem with OLD electronic equipment is that the capacitors or condensors as they were called back then were consctucted of strips of paper and foil. Aditional insulating material (dialectric/electrolyte) similar to a sticky varnish was applied to prevent arcing and shorting. It was then rolled up into a tube. Think of those flypaper strips hanging from the ceiling.

Because they were of paper and card board construction they could dry out because of outgassing. A sudden application of full power can cause the voltage to arc through the cracks and pinholes of the dried out electrolyte across the foil plates causing a short cicuit, generating heat and pressure! You will hear a very brief high pitched whistle just before you hear the BANG!

By reforming the the condensors you power up very slowly, increasing the voltage slowly so as to allow the electrolyte to warm up slowly, soften and "heal" the pinholes and cracks. Did you notice the words Slowly! I have known people to take 12-24 hours to do this. There is never any guarantee.

Any componant showing heat damage should not be trusted at all. They were baking themselves already. If you do try to power up these old electronics wear safty glasses and be preppared to kill the power immediately.

Dont forget how old these things really are! A lot of these old componants have drifted in value and so can be so far off spec that they wont tune or function properly.

Dont forget that radium was used to allow the front of the sets to glow in the dark. No sanding of the frant panel should be done. And I would be cautious about letting small children play with the set.
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  #25  
Old 24-06-18, 13:56
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Sorry to resurrect this post folks, I have acquired a WS19 set for my Mk2 carrier now

Ron, what carrier did you use to mount the set to ?

I have had my WS set through an old hand (chap served his time on these sets) he has de commissioned the A and B sets for me by removing the associated valves, however, the intercom still works so it is my intention to use it !

I am gathering bits at the moment to complete what I need for a Mk2 install.
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__5th Div___46th Div__
1942 Ford Universal Carrier No.3 MkI*
Lower Hull No. 10131
War Department CT54508 (SOLD)
1944 Ford Universal Carrier MkII* (under restoration).
1944 Morris C8 radio body (under restoration).
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  #26  
Old 26-06-18, 08:27
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Richard my WS19 carrier is the one known as a No22 which allows for the PSU to be mounted on top of the wireless. The No21 carrier is for wireless and PSU in line.

I imagine that a metal shelve would have been fixed from the track guard and over the crew seat for the Welsh Guard configuration. But I've simply installed a non fixed wooden shelve so as not to hamper battery access more than it already is..... For that reason I invested in a sealed for life battery (mine is 12volts).

However I've still fitted the correct rubber/metal feet to the WS carrier. Ron
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  #27  
Old 26-06-18, 16:24
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Saw the complete set on Milweb today;

http://http://www.milweb.net/webvert/a3209/93737
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  #28  
Old 27-06-18, 00:41
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Cheers.

I still have the hinge plates in place on my track guard so will make a pucker tray. I have the side by side carrier but will end up making a 22 like yours Ron I have the long 12 pin cable that joins the two junction boxes up, just need the short one that goes from the base unit to the no.2 control box.

I like the canvas covers you have on your cables mind Ron, look really good
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__5th Div___46th Div__
1942 Ford Universal Carrier No.3 MkI*
Lower Hull No. 10131
War Department CT54508 (SOLD)
1944 Ford Universal Carrier MkII* (under restoration).
1944 Morris C8 radio body (under restoration).
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  #29  
Old 17-07-19, 16:28
Petr Brezina Petr Brezina is offline
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Gents may I ask you for any details (pics/height) of that (rubber I guess) mounting under the aerial base as on the pictures (thank you Ron). Part is on the position 26. Many thanks!
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  #30  
Old 17-07-19, 18:21
rob love rob love is offline
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Camera is down right now, but thickness is 24.25mm. Have a NOS one sitting here.
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