Identification of F15 2WD? - Page 6

Ganmain Tony · #**151** 29-09-18, 06:52

How about this to throw a spanner in the works.

Cable is 43 and 1/2 inches long.

Outer conduit is 33 inches long.

Interesting to note the outer conduit length is identical to the old ones I pulled out.

The inner cable appears to be slightly longer though on the old cables. It is a bit difficult to tell because both cables had snapped at the end that attaches to the equalizer arms.

Jacques Reed · #**152** 30-09-18, 00:36

Hi Tony,

That sure does- throw a spanner in the works that is.
With your conduits being 6-3/4" shorter than mine it must be a bit of a stretch between the backing plates and the conduit supports.

I enclosed photos of original handbrake cable routing on my F15-A parts truck. There is reasonable amount of slack to allow for suspension movement. I am certain the crossmember where the equalizer is fitted is in the same position on both F15 and F15-A trucks so the distances to the backing plates should be identical. I know this the hard way- In my earlier naïve days I bought a dodgied up F15-A that had been converted from an F15.

The other surprise is look what I found! A handbrake cable to spring bracket had slipped down to the backing plate. I've had the truck 3 months but hadn't seen it. Of interest is that it seems to be of thinner gauge steel which may be as Grant Bowker pointed out in an earlier post there was a C01Q 2279A bracket and a later replacement C01Q 2279B.
I used a bracket remnant attached to a spring of a 1944 built truck to get the thickness. This thinner bracket is on a 1943 built truck. Perhaps they found in service the thinner gauge one broke early from fatigue and reissued the part in a thicker gauge steel hence the A and B versions.

Cheers

Jacques Reed · #**153** 01-10-18, 01:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacques Reed

Hi Tony,

I used a bracket remnant attached to a spring of a 1944 built truck to get the thickness. This thinner bracket is on a 1943 built truck. Perhaps they found in service the thinner gauge one broke early from fatigue and reissued the part in a thicker gauge steel hence the A and B versions.

Cheers

Slight correction:

Yesterday I removed the brake cable bracket remnant of the end attached to the 1943 truck spring and I notice it was folded over doubling the thickness. I looked more closely again at the 1944 remnant and it too had been folded at the spring end and therefore that bracket was the same thickness as the 1943 bracket.

On that basis anyone recreating this bracket could make it from 16 gauge steel with the length of the fold over exactly 1". I can also confirm the spring bolt hole is 13/32" diameter and the clamp bolt hole is 9/32" diameter. the center of the spring bolt hole is 1/2" from the end and the center of the clamp bolt hole is 3/8" from the end. the flat end at the clamp area is 3/4" long. With Tony's 3-1/4" BC of the holes and 3/4" wide steel that should be enough info for anyone to replicate it.

This means my suggestion that there was a thickness difference between the A and B part is not necessarily correct so whatever is the difference is still yet to be determined.

Cheers

Ganmain Tony · #**154** 01-10-18, 12:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacques Reed

Hi Tony,

That sure does- throw a spanner in the works that is.
With your conduits being 6-3/4" shorter than mine it must be a bit of a stretch between the backing plates and the conduit supports.

Cheers

Looking closely, you are spot on Jacques. If I attempt to shorten the conduit, odd's are Im going to hit the inner cable. Plus I am only going to get another inch or so and that aint going to be enough.

The NOS cables Ive got cant be the right ones. Be interesting to know what they are off. Must be some thing from the era.

If anyone does have some I would be interested to hear from you.

Have looked up MACs. They have a 46 inch cable 21C 2275. Im going to give them a go.

Grant Bowker · #**155** 01-10-18, 15:10

I suggest caution on the Mac's cable. Nothing against Mac's, I do buy parts from them.
It's the part number structure that makes me nervous. 2275 is a generic part number for brake cables of the era and the prefix C01T, 21, C01Q, C101W etc. define the year and model the part was first used on. An example of a long-lived part number is BB5783 (rear spring bumper used on F15A). The BB indicates it started being used on the BB trucks ~1932, well before CMPs existed and I've often seen them advertised on ebay as being for P series panel vans of the 1970s (no mention of earlier uses). 21T indicates 1942 truck. 21C 1942 pickup.
I would expect the 21C-2275 cable to be for a 1942 pickup truck. It might fit your application perfectly, be close enough or be significantly off. Just speculating now but it is also possible that parts developed in Canada and later adopted for US use were renumbered to avoid having the C prefix in the US system - I don't remember seeing it in US parts catalogs

Ganmain Tony · #**156** 01-10-18, 23:29

Noted Grant,

I realise I'm being a bit of Guinea Pig here. But I'll give it a go and 'take one for the team".

Jacques Reed · #**157** 02-10-18, 03:01

Hi Tony,

Yes I know the feeling o being a guinea pig. Usually after weeks of searching and fruitless enquires and buying something not quite correct someone says to me have you tried "Joe Blogs" he has dozens of them!

I have two ideas which may be of help:

You may have heard of Flexible Drive here in Melbourne. They make control cables for all types of applications. I have never dealt with them but perhaps they could be of assistance to make up new ones to the required dimensions. Just Google their website. Has any MLU members had any experience with them?

The other thing is Dirk Leegwatter had cables with Part No. C01Q 2275B which were 86" long on the inner cable but the conduit was about the same length of 40-1/2" as the F15/F15-A cables. If the inner cable could be shortened you could have the handbrake cables you need if you cannot find the correct F15 ones.

Does anyone know hot the ball end of those cables are secured to the cable? Spot welded?, Brazed?

Food for thought anyway.

Cheers,

Grant Bowker · #**158** 02-10-18, 04:17

The ball ends are swaged to the cable.
The process is described at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hp0skdRW_TI
The machines are made by https://loosnaples.com/swaging-machi...oloc-m1-type-i and are not cheap!
My experience when getting C01Q 2275B cables shortened to closely resemble C01Q 2275A cables was that there are limited service providers, but they do exist. One source is through Aircraft Spruce https://www.aircraftspruce.ca/catalo.../cableassy.php You will be asking them to swage a SA110-5 ball onto a customer supplied cable assembly after shortening the cable. The wire cable is 5/32" 1x19 stranding. They prefer to cut the cable in order to ensure against damage in shipping. I believe the actual work is performed by ACS Products http://acsproducts.co/ It ended up costing me nearly C$150 to shorten the 2 cables (including shipping both ways, about 50% of the total) - not cheap, but a bargain compared to the machinery to do it myself.

Jacques Reed · #**159** 02-10-18, 04:44

Hi Grant,

Great information! I bet Flexible Drive here in Australia would have the equipment to do the swaging so perhaps that could be a solution to Tony's predicament. Will keep it mind too if I ever break a cable.

Cheers,

Ganmain Tony · #**160** 02-10-18, 09:23

Thanks Jacques and Grant ... again. Really useful help.

I rang Flexible Drive, got a bloke in Sydney by the name of Milad. Apparently they have 5 stores around Oz.

Quoting of the job gets done by him then if I say OK, it'll get sent to Melbourne for the work to be done, then sent back to me.

Might stick with what I'm doing at the moment unless someone tells me they have used them and they are the go.

Big relief to have options though.

Ganmain Tony · #**161** 05-10-18, 04:08

Just got a reply from Stefan Leegwater to the hand brake question.

Cables he has for F15 are 45.5 inches long.

Outer conduit is 33 inches long.

In line with what you were saying Jacques. 12.5" difference.

Very useful info.

Jacques Reed · #**162** 05-10-18, 09:44

Hi Tony,

I like the 12-1/2" difference but not so sure about the 33" conduit length.

I just put a tape measure on my F15-A parts truck. 33" is almost the direct line distance from the backing plates to the conduit bracket at the crossmember.

A 33" conduit may just fit when the vehicle is static, however if the spring extends downward as in traveling over uneven ground the distance from the backing plate to the conduit bracket will lengthen considerably. This could put an excessive strain on the conduit bracket to the point it bends or breaks or even rips the cable.

Unless I have missed something different between the F15 and F15-A handbrake cables I would still be looking for conduits closer to 40" long for the above reason.

Cheers,

David Herbert · #**163** 05-10-18, 11:32

An F15 does sit lower than a F15A but that wouldn't account for 7" difference.

David

Jacques Reed · #**164** 05-10-18, 23:50

Hi David and Tony,

I looked at the rear suspension of both models and the F15 and F15-A both use the same rear springs according to the maintenance manual. That is 45" long, 2.5" wide, and 10 leaves each. Would have thought the vertical distance from the chassis to the rear axle would be much the same. Are the spring perches at different heights? If they are, it solves a 20 year old mystery for me too. My dodgied up F15-A from a F15 had the rear spring perches bolted on and not riveted. As a newbie 20 years ago I didn't give it much thought and figured it was a wartime expediency. They could have, however, been replacements for the F15 spring perches to make it look like a F15-A. It would also account why they dropped the equalized down 6" on a bracket if they tried to use the shorter (33"?) handbrake cables originally on the F15 chassis.

I have one idea that perhaps the F15 being 2WD was never intended to see much off-road service so a shorter cable would be enough for highway use where there is less suspension travel.

I also realize the cab chassis I am taking my measurements from would sit lower to the ground with a heavy rear body on it so that would reduce the length required. Even without a body, however, there is plenty of slack in F15-A cables as shown in my earlier photos.

Maybe 33" is the correct length after all?

Cheers,

Jacques Reed · #**165** 08-10-18, 01:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacques Reed

Hi David and Tony,

Are the spring perches at different heights? If they are, it solves a 20 year old mystery for me too. My dodgied up F15-A from a F15 had the rear spring perches bolted on and not riveted. As a newbie 20 years ago I didn't give it much thought and figured it was a wartime expediency. They could have, however, been replacements for the F15 spring perches to make it look like a F15-A. It would also account why they dropped the equalized down 6" on a bracket if they tried to use the shorter (33"?) handbrake cables originally on the F15 chassis.

Maybe 33" is the correct length after all?

Good day All,

Solved my own 20 year old mystery! I found a photo of a F15 that I saved from a classified ad a long time ago. Zooming in, it is quite apparent the F15 spring perch is different to the F15-A spring perch and sits higher on the chassis. So, as David said, the F15 sits lower than the F15-A. Never knew that. Now I know why I had a bolted together F15-A suspension and why the equalizer was lowered 6".

I was so teed off with that truck that I threw a lot of it away including the short cables, otherwise they would have been yours Tony.

I am a bit wiser now and keep almost anything of potential value.

Cheers,

Ganmain Tony · #**166** 09-10-18, 01:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacques Reed

Good day All,

I was so teed off with that truck that I threw a lot of it away including the short cables, otherwise they would have been yours Tony.

I am a bit wiser now and keep almost anything of potential value.

Cheers,

Oh dear Jacques, don't mention the war...

Great information again on the chassis difference, I am certainly learning a lot.
Wonderful thing this forum. Where would we be without it.

Based on the info above I wonder if the ones in my possession may be F8 cables??

Jacques Reed · #**167** 14-10-18, 22:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ganmain Tony

Oh dear Jacques, don't mention the war...

Great information again on the chassis difference, I am certainly learning a lot.
Wonderful thing this forum. Where would we be without it.

Based on the info above I wonder if the ones in my possession may be F8 cables??

Hi Tony,

Hear, hear! A fortnight ago I didn't even know there were emergency brake conduit clips on the F15/F15-A trucks. A bit of help, a few questions asked, and a bit of detective work and here is a finished product. I knocked it out Saturday afternoon.

Took more time to get the 3/4" wide steel strip then to bend it up as I don't have a guillotine. I ripped a wider piece of 16 gauge steel with a sabre saw between two steel angle guides then draw filed the edge to remove the irregularities. Next one won't take nearly as long to fabricate.

Many thanks again for your info and pointing me in the right direction.

Hope you are getting some success with obtaining your cables.

Cheers,

Ganmain Tony · #**168** 17-10-18, 02:12

Outstanding work Jacques, they look like NOS.

Sorry I havent replied earlier but my computer at home expired.
Have got to set it up again after getting something in the big box thingy that sits next to the monitor replaced.

Anyhoo I havent been idle. I have been going to generator school out at Hillston. My teacher is someone a lot of people know on here.

Been very productive... just to simply identify all the components and know what is good and what needs attending to.

Ganmain Tony · #**169** 21-10-18, 13:31

Big learning curve for me. Id rather learn about this stuff than have someone else do it.

Such as finding front and rear bearings for the heavy duty generators,,

SKF 6303 (front of armature) and 6203 (rear).

Some of the genny's had a bush in the back instead.

The ones with the bearing in the back have an all important spacer in the back which is frequently missing.

The shaft on the armature some times has wear and will get serious wobbles up if not corrected. A simple trick is to burr the shaft with a centre punch.

Ganmain Tony · #**170** 22-10-18, 11:42

One original line was in good order.

One end had been cut but it must have been close to the original flare as the nut was still there.
I was able to get new insulation on it as a result, by removing the nut off the cut end.

The insulation was cactus but I managed to find a supplier at a swap meet a few years back.

Bent up the other line and got them double flared.

Interesting to note passenger side is longer as the fuel tap is not in the centre of the floor.

Ganmain Tony · #**171** 12-12-18, 07:23

What a Saga!

Finally has come to an end.

Mac's cables are no good. Spring end that goes to the actuator in the drum is way too short.

Tried to get longer cables made in the new old stock ones... no good.

Decided to take a risk and modify the new old stock ones ourselves.

Had some amazing help again from a capable neighbour, below is what we did.

Step 1 get the steel cover off the end of the outer conduit.

Step 2 Hold back steel cover with pliers

Step 3 cut outer conduit whilst praying you don't cut the cable

Step 4 breath sigh of relief then realise you have to cut another inner section with grinder and pray you don't cut the cable.

Step 5 Stay tuned

Jacques Reed · #**172** 12-12-18, 21:23

Hi Tony,

Great photos, and how to do it. As the old saying goes "Necessity is the Mother of Invention".

For close cutting work I have found my Dremel tool invaluable even for automotive work. I have used it numerous times on the truck. The small cutoff wheels go through thin steel like a knife through butter but give you great control. One of them might be good for step 4!

Think I mentioned it before in another thread but my first use of a Dremel for automotive work was to cut off a muffler on my car back in the seventies. With their small cutoff wheel I split the inlet and outlet without touching the head or tail pipes and the muffler practically fell off.

The small wire brush is also handy for getting rust off a threads in a tight spot if you wish to save the fastener. The Fuel tank retainer strap bolt is a case in point. They snap easily as I found out the hard way if not cleaned up and drowned in penetrating oil.

Note: If you use a wire brush in the Dremel tool slow it down and do not use at full speed otherwise the wires may break prematurely and fly out at great speed. New ones have inbuilt speed controllers but my old tool doesn't so I run it through an external speed controller.
Full speed is fine for cutting however.

Look forward to step 5.

Regards,

Ganmain Tony · #**173** 13-12-18, 04:23

Well, mission accomplished.

Step 5 - gently nick inner conduit which can then peel off. Lowers risk of cutting it with angle grinder.

Step 6 - remove some of outer conduit spring. Crap yourself. Realise you may have buggered it when outer wires splay apart.

Step 7 - think "Bloody hell we have stuffed it!!"

Step 8 - use vice jaws to recollect wires and twist metal reinforcing end back out over conduit wire.

Step 9 - exhale/inhale for the first time since starting the proceedure.

Knocked about and inch and a quarter off the end. Spring has not lost its integrity either.

Jacques Reed · #**174** 13-12-18, 05:54

Hi Tony,

Should add:
Step 10: Pour yourself a good one and celebrate a job well done!

Cheers,

Ganmain Tony · #**175** 13-12-18, 10:27

Thanks Jacques,

Glad to have it behind me quite frankly.

Interesting to note - the spring around the cable that is located in the drum, does not seem to have lost any significant tension.

I also thought I might have taken a bit too much off. One line was at its maximum stretch when I put it back in.

Fortunately when I sat the truck back down on all four tyres, some load came back onto the rear leaves and has provided JUST enough slack. It should improve again when the box is put on the back.

Ganmain Tony · #**176** 16-05-20, 13:33

Getting my backside "into gear". I decided to tackle the transmission.

Did not take any photos of the hours of removing sludge and crap from everything.

Good news is everything cleaned up extremely well.

Ganmain Tony · #**177** 16-05-20, 13:48

You have to keep reminding yourself this stuff is 80 years old.

I replaced all the bearings as they were a bit noisy, and the races and balls looked a bit worn.

Putting it back together went smoothly.

Rear mount must have been loose for a long time in its working life as the wear on the cross member and mount was horrendous.

Lynn Eades · #**178** 16-05-20, 22:26

Nice work you are doing Tony. Is that the correct rubber mount for a truck?

Jacques Reed · #**179** 17-05-20, 00:44

Hi Tony,

I'll second Lynn's comment!

Amazing what pictures reveal. I had a rear F15 transmission mount which I thought maybe had been broken and welded up about 2" above the base. Looking at yours I now think it was just a mould line as your looks identical at the same place. Just gave it away two days ago as not needed for my F15-A. The recipient was using it with a gear case I gave away with it for a man cave item anyway.

The other interesting thing I noticed was the rear transmission mount gasket on my F15-A transmission was the same shape as the F15 one. See attached. It really is not required to be that complex shape on a F15-A as there is a large circular mating area at the transmission mount on them. I just cut my gasket out as a large circle to keep it simple. Guess Ford standardized on the more complex shaped one to cut down on parts inventory.

Cheers,

Ganmain Tony · #**180** 17-05-20, 06:20

Sure is chaps,

Goes under the chassis cross member and the two metal inserts go through to contact the rear mount on the back of the gear box.

At least, they are the bits I pulled off this truck.

Has any one seen a different arrangement? - pictures welcome.

Keeping in mind this is an F15 not an F15A