CMP Cab Style Identification

[DarrenCollins]

I'm a new member and CMP owner and I have been directed here to get help to ID my spare cab, I attempted to clean up the ID tag but ended up nearly dissolving it and still cant read all the numbers.
Here are links to the ID Plate & Cab Photos. Tips for cleaning up the plate would be helpful.

https://www.hcvc.com.au/forum/salewa...-blitz-cmp-cab
Plates are at:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/9458...ment&ref=notif

Thanks in advance

[Tony Smith]

Curious that the plates are numbered "44 10193" and "4 410 194". These are the Holden body plates and there is normally only one per vehicle. These are not the Canadian Chassis ID plates, which should also be present on the vehicle. (I've saved the pictures here as photos from external sites often become unaccessible over time).

The Cab is an Australian-made "Sunshine Cab". It looks to be very straight and rust-free, and with a lot of original parts still present. Certainly much better than the average condition you will find other cabs. Is there any remains of a 5 or 6 digit number painted on the flat surfaces in front of the windscreen? This will give the identity of the truck it was originally fitted to.

[DaveBuckle]

Excuse my 'dropping in' - this is number on my sunshine cab (more sunshine than cab) - perhaps Tony can shed some light?
And any significance of the Luftwaffe wingleader stripes under?

[DarrenCollins]

Thanks Tony,
Thats a great help for sure. I wish to pressure wash the vehicle to get be able to view numbers/parts better by cannot do that where it is currently resting.

I got these plates on the frame just underneath the bonnet on the drivers side.
I have looked for other numbers but may have missed them.

Just to clarify. The plates are off different cabs but found in the same location.

Are you able to show a picture of where exactly I would find these further numbers you mentioned. Thanks again

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by DaveBuckle

Excuse my 'dropping in' - this is number on my sunshine cab (more sunshine than cab)

61176 was a C15A AALMG truck (anti-aircraft light machine gun), chassis number 28440023M (assembled in Melbourne)

[DarrenCollins]

Mine has a Number on the cab Tony 996-01. I had no luck tracking it

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by DarrenCollins

Thanks Tony,
Thats a great help for sure. I wish to pressure wash the vehicle to get be able to view numbers/parts better ......

Are you able to show a picture of where exactly I would find these further numbers you mentioned. Thanks again

I'd go easy with the pressure washer The vehicle number will be heavily weathered and easily obliterated. Sometimes the paint itself will already be gone, leaving only a "shadow" of less weathered body colour. Once the number disappears, it's gone. Take the time for a real slow look.

Dave has already shown one example of where to find the ARN (Army Registration Number), on the bonnet. They can also be on the flat panels in front of the windscreen, and on the sides of the cowls.

[DarrenCollins]

I agree about the pressure washer. Its more for the underside cleaning off mud on ball joints and such rather than hitting any of the original paint. I have been told that the colour indicates it was Air force (RAAF) and have not found any reference to the number on the door.
Where specifically would you find the engine number located?
Cheers

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by DarrenCollins

I agree about the pressure washer. Its more for the underside cleaning off mud on ball joints and such rather than hitting any of the original paint. I have been told that the colour indicates it was Air force (RAAF) and have not found any reference to the number on the door.
Where specifically would you find the engine number located?
Cheers

If you have numbers on doors too, some pics of those would be good to decipher any numbers.

Paint colour looks like faded Army, there's even remnants of a cam pattern on the RH cowl. The red interior is a "bit different".

The number will be painted on the flat panel in front of the windscreen. In one of the pics you posted, a number is visible, but it cannot be made out because of glare and shadow. A clearer pic will reveal it.

If you have an engine, the engine number will be located on a flat area next to the distributor, towards the rear of the engine

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by DarrenCollins

Here are links to the ID Plate & Cab Photos. Tips for cleaning up the plate would be helpful.

https://www.hcvc.com.au/forum/salewa...-blitz-cmp-cab

Saving some of the pics here for future reference. The view of the underside is especially helpful.

[DarrenCollins]

How could you possibly see a number with the sun flare Tony. You are a true Magician. Here is a better pic of the solo cab showing numbers.


http://www.astromech.com.au/spareCab.png

And Now for the tricky one ("4 410 194"):


http://www.astromech.com.au/RAAFcab.jpg

Can only see maybe 3 numbers there..

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by DarrenCollins

How could you possibly see a number with the sun flare Tony. You are a true Magician. Here is a better pic of the solo cab showing numbers.

The "Spare" or solo cab is certainly an Army cab, not Air Force, and it is neither chassis 193 or 194. The ARN is not entirely legible to me (no magician after all ) but it is 6238x. If I was to hazard a guess I would say the last digit looks more like a 3 or a 4. Anyway, ARNs 62380 to 62389 are all Chev C15 (4x2) AALMG trucks with chassis numbers 2842100361 to ...370. Another clue pointing to it being 62383 is that that truck was disposed of to the Post-Master General's Dept, which would explain the post office red interior of the cab. Note that there is no opening in the cab floor for a Transfer Case lever.

The outline of the square was the location of the Divisional Sign. This would have identified the parent body of the Unit that "owned" the vehicle in service. As you can see it's quite illegible, but the white bar across the top indicates a Corps or Army (meaning an organisational level, not "The Army") unit, rather that a battalion or regiment. Is there a similar square on the RH side with any detail showing? The RH side would have shown the Arm of Service and identified a specific unit.

I've flipped the pic to read it better.

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by DarrenCollins

And Now for the tricky one ("4 410 194"):

http://www.astromech.com.au/RAAFcab.jpg

Can only see maybe 3 numbers there..

The numbers painted under the bonnet were an aide to any mechanics servicing the vehicle and would display the model number and year of the vehicle, and sometimes the make of truck. So we would expect to see something like "CVT 8444 1942" or "8421 1942". These numbers do not identify an individual vehicle, only the type. This was an Army practice, not RAAF, so despite the hint of blue paint, this was most likely an Army truck. Does the spare cab have anything similar under the bonnet?

We are sad, sad individuals here, and would like nothing more to see some other pics of this second truck.

[DarrenCollins]

I'll get onto that Tony =)

This first Pic shows the Army Number 996-01


http://www.astromech.com.au/Number.jpg

This angled pic show the truck with the Number just readable on the roof above the drivers door


http://www.astromech.com.au/frontnside.jpg

Side View from Back


http://www.astromech.com.au/Side.jpg

Lastly this is my second Blitz I'm debating its future


http://www.astromech.com.au/trucktwo.jpg

The Cab on its own was part of the package.

[Ken Smith]

That is interesting my C15 ARN 62400 chassis # 2842100380 with registration painted on 16 after Darren's ARN 62384 chassis # 2842100365, has a solid roof with a hatch. There is a notation in the ARNs halfway between mine and Darren's where the whole description is written in full which possibly means there was a change about then, maybe. They are both AALMG equipped though.
Ken

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by DarrenCollins

I'll get onto that Tony =)

This first Pic shows the Army Number 996-01

That number is not in a format used by the Australian Army, or the RAAF. I do not recognise the number.

It is clearly properly signwritten, so is part of a fleet of well presented vehicles, but whose? That shade of blue was seen on trucks operated by the civil construction company Transfield, but their ex-mil fleet were more typically 6x6 GMC and Studebaker trucks. There was another fleet of pale blue vehicles associated with the Woomera area, but not yet identified who.

Good news is the tray is the original tray, but with a few minor modifications.

[Mike Cecil]

A few comments about items in this thread:

Dave Buckle: the number 61176 over three coloured bars on the bonnet is not an ARN, but the Unit Serial Number. The ID of the unit and the explanation of the three colour-coded bars system is explained in my book 'Australian Army Units and Unit Serials of the Second World War,' available from Virtual bookworm (unless some other Forum member has a copy handy?) Not a marking that usually survives.

The Holden body plates: there was one mounted on the front shell, called the Front End by Holdens, and this is visible stamped on the plate next to the Model line on the 44 10193 plate. There was a second plate adjacent but attached to the main cab body with the cab body production number. This second plate was sometimes (?) attached to the cab frame vertical face below the windscreen on the passenger side, above his footwell. A third Holden tag was attached to the rear sill of the rear body, with the body type stamped onto it (eg GS, Office, etc). The one eaten away was probably made of Zinc sheet.

The '44' in the stamping would normally indicate a 1944 pattern Holden body. These had the demountable steel frame/canvas doors and a strap across the bottom edge of the doorframe, but the cab pictured appears to be a sunshine cab with solid steel doors. Production of Sunshine cabs had been discontinued by 1944, so I'm at a loss to know why 44 pattern cab plates are fitted. Sunshine cabs were originally designed for use on 15 cwt Battery Staff vehicles, though the type has been observed on other CMP chassis/wheelbases/body types.

996-01 on the doors of a pale blue/grey painted truck is similar to the colour, style and identification used by the Electric Power Transmission Company (EPT) who were big users of ex-military equipment including Diamond-T, GMC, Studebaker and CMPs.

The underbonnet nomenclature came into use on new-production vehicles in mid-1942, and was also supposed to be painted onto all vehicles then in Aust Army service (but wasn't). It was for correctly identifying the make and model for parts ordering and for correctly completing census returns.

The sign with the 2-inch wide white bar across the top is an early war (1940-42) unit sign where the formation was indicated by the white bar, and the unit sign would be the area below that. For example, 1 Aust Corps Petrol Park in November 1940 was a white 54 unit sign superimposed over the arm of service sign of red/green diagonally divided with a white 2 inch wide bar across the top. No formation sign as such was carried for 1 Aust Corps at that time, the white bar indicating the unit was a Corps unit. HQ's units had a white bar across the bottom of the sign. Lines of Communications units in 1943 also used a white bar across the bottom, along with a territory affiliation letter in black in the middle of the white bar.

A 1 inch wide bar at the top came into use for Corps, Army and HQ units in 1942. A 1 inch wide bar across the bottom came into use for Lines of Communication units, and there are instances of a white 1 inch wide bar across the bottom used by some Corps units during 1943. (Also a grey top bar for some Force units, eg NT Force).

So it will depend upon the width of the bar as to what it may indicate.

Nice collection of CMPs, and very very unusual for a Unit Serial Number and the three colour bars to survive.

Regards

Mike

[DarrenCollins]

I got the vehicles near Blinman near Woomera in South Australia.
Thank you very much for helping me with this issue all.

I really appreciate the time and effort that has gone into these posts.
The information supplied is astounding. I'm definitely in the right place as a new Blitz owner.

[DarrenCollins]

Hi All,
I managed to get the chassis number for my C60L. Here it :



Would love to hear you thoughts. Did I get it all?

[Tony Smith]

From THIS THREAD:

Originally Posted by DaveBuckle

I have attached pic of chassis number the cab came off in case it has some significance if anyone can interpret where/what that history is - seemed to be a C30A. Think it is: 33443S01115?
Attachment 102875

38443S01144! Yours is the 1144th chassis, probably built the same week as Dave's truck.

[DarrenCollins]

Thanks Tony