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  #31  
Old 20-02-18, 05:15
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Terry,

I can always count on you for an appropriate remark to a thread
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  #32  
Old 20-02-18, 10:17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Craig View Post
I get a chuckle out of the fact over 900 people have viewed this thread but very few comments.
Well I am one of the 900 !

I know nothing about this vehicle except what you have put up. You are obviously well on top of all the problems so far so there is nothing much that I can contribute.

If it helps I will say that I think it is a fascinating project and I hope that you will continue to show us how it progresses.

Try not to set fire to the jig when you weld the frame up !

David
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  #33  
Old 20-02-18, 12:30
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David,

I made the jig from wood rather than steel because it is cheaper and more expedient. It will likely get recycled into some kind of work surface in the end.

I think I know what I am doing but in reality I am an utter rank amateur at this.

Thanks for the comments.
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  #34  
Old 20-02-18, 21:54
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Robin,

Exactly what I would have done. Only alternative might have been to clamp it back to back with one of the other frames but that has its own difficulties.

Nothing wrong with being an amateur, it is the learning new skills and problem solving that is fun.

David
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  #35  
Old 20-02-18, 23:29
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Robin, my .02c worth.
Safety first! Wear a cartridge respirator and plenty of ventilation when you weld her up.
I used to do a lot of AL welding for trailer repairs and its nasty, nasty.
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  #36  
Old 23-02-18, 00:21
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We had a great night in the shop last night but not quite as far ahead on the jig work as hoped, we have some steel on hand but the side jig was not finished.

The idea is that once the side jig is complete it can be removed and the two side panels of the chassis can be made away from the main jig as they are mirror images. Only after they are made will the new sides come back to the main jig and be clamped in place and the centre portion added in.

There is going to be a lot of work with the jig, it is I anticipate going to be a couple of weeks of work. Thankfully it is all mild steel.

We are very fortunate to have acquired the two front cars as checking between the two has revealed so much in the way of detail we would never have gained by just having one.

The parts machine gave up what amounts to a whole wiring harness and how it was routed. It has been hacked a bit and butt splices don't cut it for Gerry or myself but now we know what to remake. Gerry has a great method of marking wiring which is pure genius, white zip ties and a Sharpie marker.
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wiring marking.jpg   jig side 02.jpg   jig side 01.jpg  
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  #37  
Old 23-02-18, 00:26
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The centre of the steering wheel with the Canadair logo was something we wanted to see removed without damage.

It has four small indentations and we thought about making a tool up but Gerry figured giving it a go with the box end of a spanner and some small punches in the indentations. It came off easily.

Now we have a makers name and after a bit of research it looks as if this wheel may be more common than we thought.
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steering centre 02.jpg   steering centre removal.jpg   steering centre 03.jpg   steering wheel 01.jpg  
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  #38  
Old 23-02-18, 00:31
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Ken and the folks up at the Montreal Aviation museum are missing their ether start system, and we have two, so it is proposed that we do some trading.

The injectors for the system are directional and the outside of the nozzle has an alignment arrow marked. The mounts for them look very rough and ready by comparison to some parts on the vehicle.
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ether system complete.jpg   ether start 03.jpg   ether start 02.jpg  
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  #39  
Old 23-02-18, 00:41
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While this gearbox makers plate is fairly straight forward and coincidentally has the same serial number as my prep school number.

The RCEME rebuild data plate did not photograph well at all. It is impossible to see the printing but the stampings are plain enogh but can anyone decipher them? We think the strings read as follows:

Location of rebuild "204 BWS", is that 204 Base work shops?

We think that "6 6 62" is the dte of rebuild ie sixth of June 1962

We think the initials "R L S" are those of the inspector or mechanic doing the rebuild.

Despite there being a small neat and tidy makers plate located on the dash under the steering wheel there is this larger hand stamped plate on the left side air duct. It is very poorly laid out and seems to have been done by eye.

All comments gratefully received
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gearbox data plate.jpg   gearbox rebuild data plate.jpg   date plate 01.jpg  
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  #40  
Old 23-02-18, 04:12
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The 204 Base Workshop is shown on a google search to be Barriefield/London/Hagersville. That is a fairly typical component rebuild tag for the period. It doesn't mean the vehicle was located there, just that the component went through rebuild there.

My guess was there was not a long enough production of these vehicles to warrant a proper data plate being silkscreened and stamped. That hand done one would suffice.
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  #41  
Old 23-02-18, 11:24
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Thanks for the reply Rob,

I guess I didn't make myself clear in my original post, the tag is actually silk screened but it is faded and also just doesn't show up in the photo.

I feel quite foolish that you found those locations via Google and I didn't bat an eye lid to think about that.

Thank you
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  #42  
Old 23-02-18, 22:07
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Hi Robin, what a beautiful little tracked project. I haven't seen on of these before and I can't believe it is so small. What sort of engine do they run and what type of drive system does it have. Are they constructed of ply and aluminium. What was their purpose during their time of operation as they don't look like they would hold very much unless they had multiple trailers. The tracks look like a fabricated conveyer belt style which would be easily made and quite durable. I will be watching with much interest so keep the photo's coming.
Colin
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  #43  
Old 24-02-18, 13:24
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Robin , it appears you steering wheel is M-series jeep,
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  #44  
Old 24-02-18, 19:01
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Frank,

Thanks for that detail, I was about to post a question about that.

Colin, the body is aluminum / aluminium and the frame underneath is hollow structural steel. The play is just to make a jog with. Here is some infor about the machine:-

The Rat (CL-261 et CL-70): A Canadair Vehicle Division was formed in 1956. Its first project was the RAT (Remote Articulated Track), a light vehicle for transporting personnel and equipment over difficult terrain. Amphibious and air-droppable, the two-unit vehicle had a gross weight of 1,100 kg (2,500 lb.) and a payload of 300 kg (600 lb.) It could travel at 30 km/h (20 mph) on packed snow and 5 km/h (3 mph) on water. A 35-hp Volkswagen engine drove both units through a unique articulating transfer joint.
A total of 36 RATs was built, six prototype CL-61s and the rest CL-70s. Of these, 24 went to the Canadian Army, two each to the Swedish Army and the New Jersey Mosquito Control Authority, and one each to the Canadian Department of Mines and Resources and the Department of Northern Affairs
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  #45  
Old 24-02-18, 20:21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank v R View Post
Robin , it appears you steering wheel is M-series jeep,
Although made by the same supplier I don't think so. This wheel is keyed and not splined to the shaft like the jeeps. The hub profile is also off with the three distinct triangular "points" on the arms.

Luckily enough of it exists to repair. I use epoxy and filler based on an article in Old Autos from 20 years ago lol. A good Model maker like you Robin should be able to get it cleaned up nice! The white paint will be a big help!
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  #46  
Old 24-02-18, 22:02
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Ginn View Post
Although made by the same supplier I don't think so. This wheel is keyed and not splined to the shaft like the jeeps. The hub profile is also off with the three distinct triangular "points" on the arms.

Luckily enough of it exists to repair. I use epoxy and filler based on an article in Old Autos from 20 years ago lol. A good Model maker like you Robin should be able to get it cleaned up nice! The white paint will be a big help!
Are you suggesting that paint hides a multitude of restorer's sins?
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  #47  
Old 25-02-18, 13:57
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Quite frankly I would really much prefer to get an NOS steering wheel and fit it rather than epoxy the ones we have, always makes me feel edgy with restored steering wheels. I was bitten once driving a restored vehicle with an epoxied steering wheel that let go in my hands while driving.

When I count the miles I had done in his truck it makes me shiver to think what could have happened, Yes i know the CL70 is a slow speed off road machine, I am going to have to think about that.

Thanks for the confidence in my skills Jason, and yes Terry a lot of lipstick can make a pig look attractive and a lot of paint makes a lot of jeeps look mint.

On another note I stumbled across a VW engine guru who has agreed to assist in sourcing a complete engine for the project based on identification later this week of what we take out.

Apparently the 6 to 12 volt difference in the early VW engines makes a big difference in parts availability. While I am not opposed to such a change I would prefer not to if possible. Using a replacement engine is ok with me.

The tracks we feel are ok for what we need at the moment.

I am about to get an ownership with the province of Ontario for it, always nice to have some paperwork.
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  #48  
Old 25-02-18, 21:11
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Robin those wheels have a steel bar frame work with plastic on top, jeep wheel you will need to compare ID , you always machine the key way,
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  #49  
Old 26-02-18, 13:04
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Default Canadair CL70 CFR 58-91588

Robin. Keep up the good work...you seem to be making good progress. What is your expectation for completion. Might it be ready for Milton 2018?
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  #50  
Old 02-03-18, 13:37
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Thanks for all the great comments here and in private.

Terry, what do you mean? Its done, here is a picture

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finished cl70 rat.jpg  
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  #51  
Old 03-03-18, 01:42
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Well. I am sure most of you knew I was joking with the last post, my infantile humour again.

This week saw a good amount pf progress on this project but in the back room department. I took a trip to Stayner ON for work, and used that trip to deliver two Wide track trailers that have been waiting for their new forever homes. That has put some funding into this project and cleared out some personal space. Also this week saw some tires sold. These projects don't fund themselves and it is good t clean up and downsize.

The picture in the last post was taken at a stop on my return trip at Base Borden Museum.

Now that I have a better understanding of the RAT I understand various examples much better and spot the differences.

The Borden example has pretty much all the same fitting as mine, The fitting of what appear to be a larger set of lights up front and the omission of the centre light is the only change that has been done, the evidence of the original is visible if you look closely.

The Borden example has chassis frames which are not great but look much better hosed with white paint.

I was sick on Wednesday so shop night had to be cancelled.

All is good
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  #52  
Old 03-03-18, 16:06
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While researching I found this photo showing a version of the Canadair vehicle undergoing testing at Borden. Note how it is significantly different having a rounded upper body and fuel tank fill point set halfway down the sides.

Somehow it still looks mighty dodgy in operation, mill pond usage only if you ask me.
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  #53  
Old 03-03-18, 16:52
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Pulling empty 200 pound toboggans is one thing...try that with a load on subject toboggan. Best to use a tow rope slightly longer than the max depth of the body of water you are traversing though.
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  #54  
Old 03-03-18, 22:37
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Probably fairly capable out in the tundra and muskeg, but strictly fair weather open water otherwise.

Is that a Chevy Nomad in the background, and what crest is on the sides of the Rat?

David
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  #55  
Old 04-03-18, 00:35
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On the sides of the rat are the tops of Canadian Maple Leafs (not that 60s Liberal stylized thing we use now).
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  #56  
Old 04-03-18, 05:36
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Quote:
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(not that 60s Liberal stylized thing we use now).
Rob...are you expressing an opinion on that leaf? Can I deduce what that opinion might be?
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  #57  
Old 04-03-18, 10:14
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Actually it is not a particularly big Maple Leaf. It is a very small vehicle !

David
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  #58  
Old 04-03-18, 14:27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Dunlop View Post
Probably fairly capable out in the tundra and muskeg, but strictly fair weather open water otherwise.

Is that a Chevy Nomad in the background, and what crest is on the sides of the Rat?

David
The lines don't match the Nomad. But they are no earlier than the Tri-Five Chevs (55, 56, 57). I think that vehicle is a 57 Chev Townsman 4-dr station wagon. The Nomad has always been an attractive model, but was only sold as a 2-dr. The 58 had a more pronounced "eye brow" on the edge of the hood, and a break in the flat line under the side windows.

So after that little detour into car styles, I suggest the photo is no earlier than 1955 and probably early 1960s because they don't make them like they used to, and cars mercifully don't rust out like they used to. A ten-yr old car wouldn't look as presentable as what I can see in the photo.
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  #59  
Old 17-07-18, 20:15
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Well,

it has been a while hasn't it?

As I work on a farm once spring arrives we go into a mad frenzy getting farm equipment field ready and the flagellate the land and stuff seed into the ground in the vain hope of getting a crop and in the even more vain hope of making a profit for another year, oh what an enterprise this all is.

Anyway, during that period my life is not my own, I work long hours and my own projects get shelved, literally.

During the winter I am able to work in the shop at work as a privilege, use of shop / farm equipment is also a privilege. I am appreciative of both.

I am now on a week of holiday, two days of which have been burned up my recovering from heat stroke, not fun.

Anyway, it was time to mobile the CL70 project and bring it all home as it gets cluttered at work and it looks unsightly during managment visits and causes awkward questions.

Thank goodness for palletised loading and the kit to deal with it. I loaded up a farm wagon and dragged the whole lot home.

You might notice two new cubes, these ones are steel and are ex CF parts bins for an MRT or field usage according to sources. I snagged them on kijiji in Edmonton and had them trucked back home last week and ran down to Bolton to collect them and made a side trip up to CFB Borden. They have roller drawer slides. I am chuffed to have them as they will store my tools in my basement work area and provide a base for a work surface over the top. I am trying to make use of all that evening time and the space I have at home to chip away at this project. Getting set up at home simply while waiting for my alter ego to finish the outdoor garage is difficult and I am trying not to rob too much time from one for the other. So these cubes will tidy up the disaster area as SWMBO calls it.

I am really thankful for the fact we made the decision to build into a bank and put in a set of doors that open and allow me to fork large lumpy objects right into the house in one shot.

I am now looking for some leads on various bits to get going again.
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cl70 home 06.jpg   cl70 home 03.jpg   cl70 home 02.jpg   cl70 home 07.jpg  
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  #60  
Old 17-07-18, 20:27
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The side trip up to CFB Borden was to connect with Colin Alford.

I had a conversation with Colin at the Acton during the OMVA show.He dropped the bombshell that he had a windshield and a rudder and that both were in fair shape. My windshield frame is broken along the top and missing some of the fastenings. Unfortunately we didn't connect at Aquino but this trip made so much sense to go get it.

I am very much in debt to Colin for this act of preservation and recognising that this manufactured item has value to someone in the future, a true member of the MV hobby. Thank you Colin.

The plexi is broken but it is easy to have it remade now I have the complete frame.

I think that an Ottawa company may make the replacement unless I can find one locally in Kingston.

Before I forget it if anyone is able to let me know a parts supplier for the drawer catches on the steel cubes I would appreciate that, Rob Love thinks they were made for the CF by Stanley. One never knows who is watching . . .
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