C15A - WO16 - Chev Blitz - Looking for guidance

[peterinair67]

My New / Old BLITZ. Bought in November last year off a property in Southern Queensland (AUST) from a farmer who had it for over 30-years. He bought it off a Railway Crew who hauled sleepers for QLD Rail. Assume they are the ones who modified the chassis and extended the wheelbase from 101” to the current 127 inches. Has a Timber tray which is 136 inches or 11 ft 4 inches long and a doubled up chassis rail set up. Quite unique….

Still a working vehicle. Complete except for the passenger seat and the driver’s side fuel tank.

Model WO16
(I still have not tracked down the War Office decoding, I still don’t know what the original set up was)

SERIAL 2844400508M

ENGINE WR3816092

C15A

1942

508TH IN THE YEAR BUILT

‘M’ IS FOR MELBOURNE WHERE ASSEMBLED

Looks lt was never re-painted so I am going to start all of the research now on ‘what to do’. Starting with a general clean up to see what I have, followed by the sorting out of the Chassis to keep as is or put back to original. I will start to post pictures in the following few weeks. If anyone else has a model WO16 and can give me some advise, like to hear from you - or anyone else who thinks they can get me on a good path to restore the beast !

Look forward to get to know many of you. Cheers. Peter

[Keith Webb]

Hi Peter. I can tell you what it was...

WO 16 = Battery Staff Wireless Load M1. This meant it had a No2A Australian steel body, same as most Australian built C15As. So in addition to the chassis mods you'll be looking for one of those bodies, a set of 16" wheels and a spare wheel carrier.

Handsome beast isn't it, with the 20" wheels.

[hrpearce]

Hi Peter, congratulations C15A still a runner, I had that luck also. I have mine on club rego now but it is still a workhorse. It looks like you have good metal to work with. Put up heaps of photos from all angles so we can see exatly what you have got. Have fun with it and ask all the questions you need to. I had help from all round the world here on MLU

[Keith Webb]

There was one at Corowa in 2002... don't have a pic handy but it was a Sydney built example: WO16 Chassis 2844400439S Engine WR3821426

[peterinair67]

Keith, thanks for the information on the set up – I will start to research the Battery Staff Wireless Load M1 type / No2A Australian steel body. Many of those about? Picture of the Timber tray - it is ready for removal.

Do people typically find the spare wheel carrier bracing or make it up based on a pattern or pictures?

I like the 20" wheels. Just priced the 9.00X20” NDT MILITARY 12PLY‏ from that Co. in W.A... OUCH on the price! Look for 16’ as you suggested next. I have 5 wheels & Tyres. Mixture of tyre types.

Appreciate the guidance. Having fun.

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by peterinair67

I like the 20" wheels. Just priced the 9.00X20” NDT MILITARY 12PLY‏ from that Co. in W.A... OUCH on the price! Look for 16’ as you suggested next. I have 5 wheels & Tyres. Mixture of tyre types.

Appreciate the guidance. Having fun.

For less pain, try AgTyre in Moree, NSW for their 9.00-20 MRF NDMS Military Bar Tread. You might have to go on back order and place an order through a local dealer, but still ought to work out cheaper. AgTyre can be contacted on 1800 028988 or 02 6752 4299.

[peterinair67]

Here is the condition of the timber on the bed of the BLITZ !

[peterinair67]

Picturs of the Chassis. Left and right and mid, drive shart. The rear leaf springs are doubled up. Appear to have overload springs attached. Is this normal? The wheel base was extended to 129", not 134". Was 101", Can still see where the spring perch was located originally. The drive shaft must be using a replacement from another truck and looks to be in ok condition. You can also see the chassis extention weld.

[aj.lec]

The auxillary springs were only standard on the c60s and c60l models
C15a only had 10 leaves on front and 12 on rear at 2" and 2.447" wide respectively . centre of eyes are 40" on front and 50" for rears

[Keith Webb]

I see from the pic of the rear you have a Sunshine roof.

[peterinair67]

Thanks for the information on the C60 leaf spring set up application to this Andrew. I take it that it's ok to leave as is then?

Yes Keith, it is a Sunshine roof. Currently with Galvanised Tin screwed in place which I want to remove and make a canvas cover for. I will add a picture. Perhaps the same as a Blue one you might have had before if I saw some pictures of some of your vehicles? I also read that you have the pattern for the canvas for the roof. If it's possible, I would like to get a copy from you to make one up. I want to make the canvas / clear plastic door covers too.

[peterinair67]

Sorry if I am asking obvious questions... The truck has U Bolts holding the upper rail to the Chassis and the Timber bed sitting on and attached to that upper rail. All different points, all different angles and methods, sometimes through holes in the rail, some are over the top and wrapped all around. Can anyone post a picture on how I should attach the upper rail properly? Also, there is a piece of timber between the chassis and the upper rail, is that correct? Looked and looked but can't find pictures of these areas anyplace. Thanks.

[Keith Webb]

Originally Posted by peterinair67

Sorry if I am asking obvious questions... The truck has U Bolts holding the upper rail to the Chassis and the Timber bed sitting on and attached to that upper rail. All different points, all different angles and methods, sometimes through holes in the rail, some are over the top and wrapped all around. Can anyone post a picture on how I should attach the upper rail properly? Also, there is a piece of timber between the chassis and the upper rail, is that correct? Looked and looked but can't find pictures of these areas anyplace. Thanks.

There should be no upper rail.

It is something which was more commonly added in civvy life to strengthen the chassis when a crane was fitted or a chassis lengthened.

Perhaps the best solution will be to keep your eye out for another C15A chassis for your rebuild.

[hrpearce]

Hi Peter, your tray looks like it was made up of available parts that were at hand. Yes there should be timber between the metal serfaces to add flexability and tospread the weight along the chassis rails and not just to the rivet heads in the chassis. I haven't found a shot of proper U bolts yet but I will keep looking unless someone with photos gets in first. You should look at Keith's sight as well it will take a fiew hours of your spare time but worth it. http://www.imagecontrol.com.au/oldcmp/

[peterinair67]

Thank you Robert. I will look at Keith's site again Your right, hours pass away there. A lot to review. It's great.

Here is a picture of the rear of the truck. YES, made up of anything they could find at the time. Peter

[peterinair67]

Made a lot of progress this week.

[peterinair67]

Getting ready for Chassis and Engine re build. Having fun. A lot of original paint, bolts and stuff that has never been apart. Going to have a lot of questions.

[S LATHERON]

Hi, Looks like you will have reduced the weight of that rig by a ton Or more just dumping that timber tray.
Before the scrap man gets the Upper steel frame just check it out for dimensions as it looks like the back 2/3 of another CMP mounted upside down,
If it is then you make be able to get a couple of good repair sections from it to rebuild the Truck chassis to a Standard wheelbase.
There are a couple of recognised ways to cut and lengthen/ shorten chassis that give a strong joint and will be as good as new, A straight top to bottom cut, to give a square end profile is one way then cut the donor chassis to match .Weld together and then add an internal Brace [flitch plate ] [fish plate] not forgetting to >_< the flitch internaly to relieve stresses.
However, many years in the truck industry and having seen this done by experts. cut the truck chassis at an angle [sorry do not know the number of degrees ] but at a guess 45 degrees. Then cut the doner frame to match.
A good FLAT FLOOR, a SET OF STRONG AXLE STANDS TO SUPPORT BOTH HALVES of chassis, AND most important lots of Steel angle to clamp all the bits SQUARE.not forgetting to measure the diagonals to make sure that it is not only level but parallel. TACK weld all the brace bars in place before attempting to weld the halfs together.The true advantage of this join, known in the UK as a SCARF joint is the length of the weld on a slope is far greater than a top to bottom joint. Much more substantial and Permanent, stress of weld is reduced as it is spread over a greater length.
Finally an insert flitch plate complete with cut aways to further reinforce the repair fitted on inside Also >_____< to relieve stress on the road.
I personally cannot weld and I would be happy to give this sort of work to a Qualified welder, Although it may cost a bit more but will leave a ready to roll tidy join and safe chassis for your Rebody project. One that you can depend on on or off road

[aj.lec]

from the MB-C1 manual

FRAME—J - 2
Use of heat is not permissible when straightening frames. Heat weakens structural characteristics of the frame members and all straightening should be done cold. Frame members which are bent or buckled sufficiently to show strains or cracks after straightening, should be replaced.

CUTTING, REINFORCING, RIVETING AND WELDING
Whenever it is necessary to remove or cut the frame, the rail should be cut at an angle of 45 degrees, in other words, make the actual cut twice the width of the rail. This method distributes the cut and weld over a greater area than a cut made at right angles with the rail.
Reinforcements can be made with fiat, channel, or angle stock. Because of difficulties encountered when inserting the channel reinforcements into the frame side rails, the use of angle reinforcements is recommended. Wherever possible, the reinforcement should extend the entire length of side rail or at least 18" beyond the cab cross-member. This procedure, of course, is impractical in many instances because of the position of attached units and existing cross-members. The reinforcement stock thickness should be securely riveted together. Hot rivets are recommended, as they can be properly driven with hand tools. Cold rivets are not recommended unless heavy power press equipment to obtain secure fastening is available.
In addition to thoroughly welding a cut in the side rail, the outside edges of reinforcements should be welded to the frame after the reinforcements are riveted. All unused holes should also be filled with welding material. The welding rod should be substantially the same material as used in the frame.
The diameter of the reinforcement rivets, depends upon the spacing and the number of rivets used. Generally, the rivets are 50% to 100% as thick as plates to be riveted.

[S LATHERON]

Hello Andrew
Well my guess that the angle of cut was 45 degrees was correct.
You have written proof from the manual that this is the best way to proceed if any one has a frame to " adjust ". I have worked in the heavy truck industry in the UK at dealer level for 40 years [makes me old I guess] and have seen many chassis altered to suit various needs, I have also seen the bad effects of poor modification and unsuitable body mounting ,Twisted frames, Frames cracked at stress points like UN WELDED UN USED bolt/ rivet holes.
I am sure the guys that stretched this original 101 w/ base never thought that it would still be in exsistence 40 plus years on, maybe a compliment to there welding ability.
Regards Stephen

[aj.lec]

It is a bit hard to tell from the photos but it looks like they used the ends off a different chassis and slid it over the original chassis and welded it on
Behind the flitch plate they have used has it got the original hitch holes at the end of the original chassis (where the draw bar bolts) ?

Another interesting thing i noticed about your chassis is that it has the 1/2 crossmember behind the winch crossmember .The 2 i have here do not have this crossmember .These are both Sydney manufacture .I wonder if this was a Sydney vs Melbourne difference ?

[peterinair67]

Andrew & Stephen, Thanks for the detailed comments on how to approach the Chassis for me. All the comments are very, very helpful indeed.

We think that the Upper Chassis and the part used to extend the 101“ wheel base to 129“ is off a C60. They did slip over the C15A Chassis as you thought Andrew and used the holes for the leaf springs and the actual double springs off that same C60 set up for the rear set up. The welding is good & has a 2 ft overlap. They did fill in Holes too as you suggested & they are solid. I have braced with a L shaped section that is 1.3 m long and bolted to side and lower parts of the rail to temporarily straighten it all up so we can get everything together. Someone else suggested I replace the chassis with a new C15A. Not sure if I will be able to either find or want to do that. Still considering. In the mean time, we braced everything and have replaced all bolts on the rear, including the spring mounts. The brace you referred to was off the upper Chassis but they had installed that upper chassis upside down do it was questionable if it was adding much strength. I shaved 3 mm off each side and installed into the smaller C15A Chassis (bolted up and down) and think this will give us more cross strength and it has helped to bring everything into alignment, all directions.

Now that it is all stabilized, we can keep on moving it about and get on with our planning for the project.

Very happy to get all that timber off but also the WINCH… ! It was Huge and so, so heavy. Just listed on OZ ebay now. It is a monster. See the pictures. I am going to search for the original Winch for a C15A and put as it would have been originally with the PTO set up that is all in 100% working condition.

[aj.lec]

I think you may want to take your winch off ebay then
It looks to me like a cmp winch with the housing slid to one side to allow for the bigger drum ,of which you will probably find is the original drum with an extension welded in the middle
the cmp winches are big as they are basically a ford differential cut and modified

[peterinair67]

Thanks Andrew. Will take another look.

[cliff]

Originally Posted by peterinair67

Very happy to get all that timber off but also the WINCH… ! It was Huge and so, so heavy. Just listed on OZ ebay now. It is a monster. See the pictures. I am going to search for the original Winch for a C15A and put as it would have been originally with the PTO set up that is all in 100% working condition.

That is a CMP winch as Andrew stated with a widened drum on it and it fitted All models of CMP and was the only type of original winch for CMP's. So if you want to add a winch to your truck I'd remove it from eBay and keep it.

[peterinair67]

Got a hold of a Winch I can get to and recover in the Summer if we chose to go that way - Looks like this one also have brackets that will be easier to fit to my chassis. In summary, proceeding to sell the extended winch so save my hassle with the mods on the widened spool and altered configuration or keep as a nice piece about the place if it doesn't sell & use for parts in the future. Thanks for the opinions on solving this one for me. Very helpful.

[peterinair67]

Can anyone give me some pointers on this? Can't find reference in the manual.

[S LATHERON]

Hello Peter
Looking at the picture of the winch you can buy. Yes that looks a lot less work than re working the heavily modified one. However is the whole chassis that the [summer] winch is in for sale? maybe not to daft an idea to use that rolling frame as a Basis for the rebuild and use the best parts of the two chassis to give a straight forward project At the very least just use the frame and add your own Cab, Engine ,Transmission Springs and Axles.
In this scenario providing they are both Chev You can Overhaul A complete Axle and suspension off your original unit and after Sandblasting summer frame just re assemble the Reconditioned units.,straight onto it.
Once you have a fully rebuilt truck you will have a pile of Used items that someone else may wish to take on Without the hassle of removing them!
Whatever you decide to do all the best

Stephen

[Rob Beale]

I'm not sure why that hole is there, because the one on the other side by the starter has the pointer for timing the motor.

Rob

[peterinair67]

Engine is out. Now to clean her up.