Finally getting around to working on my CGT

Stony Smith · #1 04-10-12, 15:12

My friends have been beating me up about letting it sit, so my winter time project begins. I have been gathering up information, and parts. But now it time to ask for advice, I know the CGT has a low set of gears(7:13) -so what does that translate to on the road with its 216, 60k -70k? I'd like to get more speed out of it at least a comfortable 80k, I found a 261 -and I'd like to swap out the gears for set from a longer wheelbase truck which apparently had a higher set 6:13ish, or swap out my axles with another set before I dump money into these ones -thoughts?

Bob Carriere · #2 04-10-12, 16:41

That project should keep you warm for the Winter.

Speed in a CMP is a bit of a problem...... designed like a brick it was not meant to go fast but to be overloaded, abused and survive rough roads.

Normal confortable speed is 35 to 45 on good paved roads with a 216.

The smaller CMPs had sixteen inch tires and could afford to use a higher gear... in the larger trucks like the CGT.... to make up for waht was lost on the 20 inch tires they lowered the axle gear to almost match the other vehicles speed.

A 261 will give you about 50% improvement on HP and torque and according to Phil Waterman will cruise at 50 mph and hold it's speed on mild hills.

I would not go through the trouble of changing the axle gear clusters unless you intend to commute on the 401.

Keep in mind that with more speed you will need more brakes.... your overall weight will not change...... lots of mass to stop in a panic. CMP brakes are good if properly set up and adjusted regularly..... but they are 1937-39 technology...... a brake booster can be installed.... you might even find a NOS one....... but the basic mechanics of the brakes system will not change and the stopping maybe easier on your leg but not much shorter distances.

OH.... don't forget when you install the 261 you will need to replace the stock water pump with an A-dapter plate and a rebuilt 216 water pump. Otherwise you fan will be to low on the center of the rad and the fan will be touching the radiator. Easy job to do before the engine is installed.

Looking forward to seeing pictures of your truck.

Good luck

Bob C.

Ah ah ....found the pictures on a previous threads..... sounds like you are on the right track.

Moderator..... should this be merged with Stony's previous thread...?

Stony Smith · #3 04-10-12, 17:38

Excellent information! Thanks. 50mph sounds fast enough in something so top heavy. The 261 came at a good deal so I had to scoop it. And my axles are in good shape -didn't really want to have to take the gears out anyway! the CGT already has the power brake booster, but I might switch it out for something a bit more modern(Dual reservoir), as I plan on putting some miles on it next summer.

Everything on this truck is heavy -I needed to build an A frame with a chain hoist just to lift it apart

-Anyone have a front bumper and a front driveshaft for sale?

-Anyone want a 216 "solid" as a rock!

Grant Bowker · #4 04-10-12, 19:04

Most CMP front bumpers were a standard "C" channel, these sections are still available. It is a fairly simple exercise in layout and drilling to reproduce if you have even a beat up one to work from.
Without going into the parts books I'm not sure but think that almost all front driveshafts (at least Chev to Chev) have to be very close to the same length because of the relationship of engine/transmission/transfer case/axle. A possible exception is the 270 CID engined variants since the 270 is longer than the 216. (But the C60X has the radiator and grille mounted further forward than the C15-C60 so the transmission output might be at a similar point along with the transfer case.)
More to follow once I can check the books.

Parts list 197 dated August 1942 gives the same part number as fitting C15A to C60 and CGT for the front propellor shaft.

chris vickery · #5 05-10-12, 00:00

My first CMP, a 12cab Ford, would top out at about 65mph. That was with a tweaked flatty, headed downill. Trust me, at that speed, a CMP truck is almost at the point of terrifying to drive. I certainly never wanted to have to stop suddenly under this condition. A leisurely drive in an old army truck with people PO'd at you for holding back traffic is all part of the fun!

Walde Libera · #6 05-10-12, 00:24

My CGT is set up i.e. 261 with 11.00 X 20 NDT's. Top speed at @3000 RPM is 50-55 mph or 85-90 km and confirmed by my GPS stuck to the window. The only mods done to the engine were the 216 the "off set" water pump plate set up and a 50's vintage stock split exhaust manifold giving a dual exhaust into a single Ford muffler with a single outlet. Also added an oil cooler across the front frame rail just ahead of the engine.

For fuel issues I ran an 12 volt electric fuel pump to minimize the vapour lock stalls on very hot days 27C-35C. Parades especially.

The truck is also all on 12 volts so I can run conventional accessories on it especially usefull on long trips. I use an original 6 volt starter, but it doesn't seem to mind.

Western Command did a convoy on the Alaska highway this summer. The CGT is a little hard on fuel so I trailered it on the long stretches between displays, by the time we were done it was 6400 km ( F350) return to Vancouver, 1800 km's with the CGT. Attached are a couple pics from Fort Saint John from this August. You have a great vehicle, it gets a lot of attention!

Walde

Stony Smith · #7 05-10-12, 11:38

Can someone measure one up for me please (Material thickness, height, length) also the width of the vertical overriders, and the diameter of the bar on the top. I should be able to scale the locations from pics, maybe I'll find the tow hooks over time. -Murphy will drop a complete bumper in my lap the moment I finish this one though.

With all the info coming back about the speeds and driving your own vehicles -it's giving me more enthusiasm to hurry up and drive mine -I thought for sure it was going to be a dog -having the word "Tractor" in the name doesn't make it sound fast

What was the colour green you used Walde -I see some are painted a dark green, seems mine was a lighter green similar to yours -found the colour under 60yrs of dirt

Thanks guys for you help and advice

chris vickery · #8 05-10-12, 14:40

You will find plenty of arguments and discussion regarding paint here on the forum.
If you are looking at 60 year old paint and it is lighter, the only reason is because its faded. The military paint has a tendency to wash out quickly. I have seen plenty of cmps you would swear were painted mustard yellow, when in fact that is the result of OD paint that is aged.

Stony Smith · #9 05-10-12, 16:25

So that would explain the yellow patches then.

Probably back in the day the colours were different, as long as it was some sort of green it was good to go

Barry Churcher · #10 06-10-12, 03:14

Tony I can supply you with the steel for the front bumper and I can lend you a front brush guard as a sample to make one if you wish.
Barry

Stony Smith · #11 06-10-12, 03:54

that's very nice of you, I'll totally take you up on the offer -I don't mind driving out taking pictures and measurements. -what are you doing this weekend?

Barry Churcher · #12 06-10-12, 03:56

Tony, are you willing to travel all the way to Whitby?

Sorry, this weekend I have company coming from Holland and I have to go to the airport Saturday and Sunday my daughter in law is cooking in Bolton.

Stony Smith · #13 06-10-12, 13:17

Proximity has finally worked in my favor -usually the stuff I want is on the other side of the world.

The truck has been waiting this long, little while longer doesn't bother it -it told me so..... I think the wife has me down on the Honey Do List as "Painting all day" anyway

Let me know when is good and I'll be there, thanks

Stony Smith · #14 20-10-12, 04:39

My ongoing attempt to get the important bits inside for the winter for rebuilding -We had a couple of nice days so I decided to take some more bits off. I was really happy that the bolts came out of the winch coupler -I thought for sure i was going to have to cut it apart. A couple of repairs to the floor and crossmembers -I need to fine a pic to see what the transfer case lower shifter bracket looked like, you can see where someone cut it off -also there is a hole ground through the frame from where the air pump PTO was rubbing on it (also rubbed through the selector box)

The Transmission poured water out forever it seems -then out came the sludge -That will be another day, don't want to think about it right now -still shifts and turns though

Getting the bell housing off the engine when it's stuck might be tricky -do I rip it down to free up the engine -or flip it over and cut the crank in half.....

The transfer case selector is solid.

Stony Smith · #15 20-10-12, 04:42

more pics of the teardown

Phil Waterman · #16 20-10-12, 17:16

Hi Stoney

You should not have to cut the crank, or at least I would not start there. Have you determined what is stuck on the engine, or is it just one mass of rust?

As you have already figured out, not being able to turn the engine over to get at all of the bolts, does kind of convert the engine into a Chinese Puzzle box of what to remove what to get at what.

Have you tried all the normal tricks of penetrating solutions in the cylinders?

If that didn't work then you are down to figuring out which parts of the engine are going to useable and which are going to be hardest to replace.

Remove the head and side cover inspect the block for signs of freeze damage it is cracked game over. Take a look at http://canadianmilitarypattern.com/EngineTesting.htm bottom of page for major crack area.

If the crank looks like it might be good or machinable you can remove the crank and flywheel assembly as a unit by removing the connecting rod caps and bearing caps, remove the engine front cover pull the cam gear off the crank. With that removed you should be able to turn the cam shaft to get at the two screws that hold the cam shaft in place. Remove the cam with the cam out you can remove the engine front plate.

With the engine front plate gone and all the bearings caps and lower connecting caps removed you should be able to lift the crank and flywheel out. I would use a hoist so that you can pull the crank straight up.

OK guys what did I for get?

Hope this helps

Cheers Phil

Bob Carriere · #17 21-10-12, 03:52

Try to remove everything you can to see if the crank can be lifted from the engine bottom in one piece...... then you can remove the clutch pack and the flywheel.

However, having said that I did have to cut one crank...... because I could not reach all the bolts on the connecting rods...... the pistons were rusted solid in the cylinders...... pounding with a wooden block and a sledge hammer did not free them up.......

And it will take you a lot of Oxy-acetelyne to cut through the crank......

If I can be of any help to sort out your 2 speed T case let me know. You are in for some fine welding to rebuild those crossmembers. I can't understand why they had to cut the crossmembers for extra clearance.....

Yes trannies can hold a lot of water.... yet most gears and bearing will survive. By the way all bearing/race are available even today as aftermarket parts........ a good indusrial bearing centre will find you a matching bearing by measuring thickness and ID and OD...... do not go by the part numbers most have changed. The bottom rear bearing is difficult to find... all others are there for the picking NOS brand new...... same goes for the T case bearings and seals.

Bob C

Stony Smith · #18 24-10-12, 03:49

Excellent advice on the engine -although I'm not going to reuse it as I have the 261 now. And your tranny knowledge about water has put my mind back at ease -till I take it apart

The transfer case selector shaft is pretty corroded -may look into finding a donor for that, however it's only metal.....

Phil Waterman · #19 24-10-12, 15:58

Hi Stoney

Two of my three CMPs have had water in the transmission, I think it gets around the shift lever particularly around the reverse lock out rod. One old Chevy GMC guy told me to pack the rod area with grease and grease the ball area once a year, he suggest removing the lever to do this. I've added doing the same to the transfer chase lever assembly.

Now as to water damage to the gears and bearings, take a look at http://canadianmilitarypattern.com/C...ansmission.htm which is old thread from MLU with more pictures added. (some of the pictures are high resolution and large so maybe slow downloading.) My C60S had some really nasty stuff in the transmission. Looked like brown 3 layer jello and about the same consistency when I first got the truck. Completely disassembled and cleaned the transmission and as you can see from the photos there is some gear tooth pitting and one of the shafts developed a chatter after 10 years of use. But now with 20+ years of driving it still shifts good.

Now about the "the transfer case selector shaft is pretty corroded" I assume you mean the tower assembly, or do you mean the shift shafts that actually go into the transfer case.

Think you will be happy with the 261 engine, the 261 engine in my C60S with radio box makes it a very enjoyable truck to drive.

Cheers Phil

Stony Smith · #20 25-10-12, 03:56

that's more great information on the tranny, thanks -interesting that even with the pitting on the gears they are still fine -mine feels a bit crunchy when I turn it over, I'll clean it up and get some new bearings -good as new.....

Transfer case is good -it's the tower that rusted solid -barley any bold head left on the top -that's this weekends project

Phil Waterman · #21 25-10-12, 15:14

Hi Stoney

Now when I encounter this problem of rust on gear teeth I polish them carefully with 3M Roloc Disc finest grit I can get. (I save my old discs after they lost their cutting power to use so they don't cut aggressively)

Then I polish each tooth being careful not to cut in to the metal just smooth and polish the teeth. Slow picky work.

Concerning the transfer shift tower, one of my trucks was rusted the other wasn't the one that wasn't had the entire shift tower filled with grease. That truck had signs of having been wade proofed, cosmoline all over the place, so wonder if filling the tower with grease was part of wade proofing. Did make it a little hard to shift in real cold weather.

Cheers Phil