MLU FORUM  

Go Back   MLU FORUM > MILITARY VEHICLES > The Armour Forum

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 23-03-15, 02:00
DanJahn DanJahn is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Maple Ridge, BC
Posts: 188
Default tracked vehicle question?

Hi group.

I hope this question hasn't already been beat to death.

What are the road rules for tracked vehicles in the different provinces?

IE: Can they be registered, insured and driven on the road.

Here in BC there are a couple of halftracks and Bren Gun Carriers that have specialty plate status meaning their use is restricted.

It's the general feeling though that here in BC ICBC may not allow any more tracked vehicles on the road.

Thank you

Dan Jahn
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 23-03-15, 02:14
rob love rob love is offline
carrier mech
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Shilo MB, the armpit of Canada
Posts: 7,517
Default

In Manitoba a tracked vehicle may not be registered for road use. That has been the rule for at least 30 years that I know of.

But it gets worse. ABout 8 years or so back, when I went to safety and register my M38A1Cdn3 Jeep, the provincial registrar was not even sure they wanted "that type" of vehicle on the road.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 23-03-15, 02:47
DanJahn DanJahn is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Maple Ridge, BC
Posts: 188
Default Tracked vehicles

Thank you Rob

Yes those of us with registered and insured tracked vehicles here in BC feel quite fortunate that we can use them.

I also had trouble many years ago trying to get collector plates for a M38A1 jeep.

The supervisor I had behind the counter thought along the same lines as the fellow you were dealing with.

Would like to hear from the other provinces on this subject.

Thank you

Dan
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 23-03-15, 04:28
Robin Craig's Avatar
Robin Craig Robin Craig is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Near Kingston, ON, Canada
Posts: 2,153
Default

I will comment but wont delve too deep as this is a public forum.

In the province of Ontario the essential flavour is no, and that is a no period.

To go any deeper is fraught with landmines.

As far as registering weird vehicles, or weird as other civvies see them, I specialise in doing it, and do it often. I get the paperwork right and get every i dotted and every t crossed.

Both driving a vehicle and registering one is a privilege and not a right in this province, and don't ever forget it because those are the words used when they "revoke your privileges".

I have over the years sorted out many peoples vehicle registrations by doing all the leg work and jumping through hoops.

There are many people who work in the system who regrettably don't see as much of a variety as others and give the wrong info out to us hobbyists.

Being patient and executing a tactical withdrawal (not a retreat) and regrouping with the correct information is the key.

Oh yes, an SMV sign is not a loophole, it is a liability.

Do it right and do it proper and when things go pear shaped you will be in the clear.

I know, I have been there.

Robin
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 25-03-15, 17:26
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Winnipeg, MB
Posts: 3,384
Default

As Rob Love mentioned, here in Manitoba tracked vehicles are a " no no" unless it is a major construction vehicle 'helping to improve the local economy', in which case they turn a complete blind eye to it's presence on the roads and the damage done.

The law came into effect around World War One when roads were starting to improve and was initially geared to Agricultural Steam Engines with their huge cast steel wheels with heavy steel lugs. With the arrival of the tank in the war, a lot of attempts were made to convert farm equipment to tracks, but they still tore up the roads badly, so tracked vehicles were banned. This was the result of enough municipalities bitching up to the provincial government, who writes the rules via the Highway Traffic Act. Fast forward 30 years and a whole new family of vehicles arrive on the scene with fully rubber tracks (US Halftracks for example). You try to register one and the guy at the counter hears 'track' and automatically goes into rejection mode. And technically he is correct. The original law never differentiated steel versus rubber because there was no need to 100 years ago.

So what do you think the odds will be for the first Halftrack owner in Manitoba to get his vehicle registered? He's at the bottom of the latrine looking wayyy up at that shadowy government body looming overhead.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 25-03-15, 17:55
rob love rob love is offline
carrier mech
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Shilo MB, the armpit of Canada
Posts: 7,517
Default

Actually David, Agricultural vehicles are exempt from registration and can operate on Manitoba roads and highways if they are performing agricultural functions. So if it was an attempt to restrict those vehicles, then it will have failed.

If the new halftrack owner is an ag-operator, then a few bales of hay in the back heading to a waiting customer should suffice. The vehicle will be insured under his farm insurance.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 25-03-15, 22:22
charlie fitton's Avatar
charlie fitton charlie fitton is offline
HLIofC - Normandy Pl
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Maryhill Ontario
Posts: 942
Default

" ag-operator, then a few bales of hay in the back heading to a waiting customer should suffice. "

And as soon as an accident happens, the police and the insurance company see right through this and walk away laughing...and jack up your rates.

No sense trying to con anyone...carriers are not ATV's, not snowmobiles, not tractors, not anything but what they are.

f
__________________
Charles Fitton
Maryhill On.,
Canada

too many carriers
too many rovers
not enough time.
(and now a BSA...)
(and now a Triumph TRW...)
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 26-03-15, 01:47
jeff davis's Avatar
jeff davis jeff davis is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: maple ridge b.c
Posts: 537
Default Tracked vehicle

I talked with Insurance Corperation of B.C employee today and they have not heard of anything to disallow us to drive are Tracked Vehicles or to not allow the Registration of future Bren Carriers on road.
Possibly just fear mongering to drive up the price of Registered Tracked Vehicles
Regards
Jeff
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 26-03-15, 02:33
cletrac (RIP)'s Avatar
cletrac (RIP) cletrac (RIP) is offline
David Pope
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Eston, Sask, Canada
Posts: 2,251
Default

I had a trucker in Alberta complaining about something I was going to tow home with my farm pickup. I pointed to the F on the license plate and said "See that? That means I can do any "f"ing thing I want!" He walked away in disgust.
__________________
1940 Cab 11 C8 Wireless with 1A2 box & 11 set
1940 Cab 11 C8 cab and chassis
1940 Cab 11 C15 with 2A1 & Motley mount & Lewis gun
1940 Cab 11 F15A w/ Chev rear ends
1941 Cab 12 F15A
1942-44 Cab 13 F15A x 5
1942 cab 13 F15A with 2B1 box
1943 cab 13 F15A with 2H1 box
1943 Cab 13 C8A HUP
1944 Cab 13 C15A with 2C1 box
1943 Cletrac M2 High Speed Tractor
MkII Bren gun carrier chassis x 2
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 26-03-15, 03:06
jeff davis's Avatar
jeff davis jeff davis is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: maple ridge b.c
Posts: 537
Default Farmers

Farmers Rule
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 26-03-15, 07:48
DanJahn DanJahn is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Maple Ridge, BC
Posts: 188
Default tracked vehicles here in BC

That's good to hear that the rumors about it getting harder or impossible to get tracked vehicles registered here in BC may be false. Speaking for myself I met a lot of resistance trying to get two halftrack projects registered and that was at the head office level. So I gave up. I know of another person ( no names ) that had a hard time just trying to transfer an already registered tracked vehicle. So it is good to hear that it may only be fear mongering.I guess we won't know for sure until someone gives it a try.

Thank you for everyone's input.


Dan
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 26-03-15, 16:50
Frank v R's Avatar
Frank v R Frank v R is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: pefferlaw , ont
Posts: 469
Default

never tell them more than their poor little brains can handle , a Halftrack has 2 drive axles , sounds like a White truck to me, my 2 cents, and Hagerty insures them but make sure you speak only to Hagerty,
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 26-03-15, 17:48
Grant Bowker Grant Bowker is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 2,285
Default

Several provinces (I believe BC, Sakatchewan, Manitoba and Quebec) have mandatory provincially run insurance plans that vehicle owners are required to deal with for basic liability coverage. In these provinces, you only get to chose the provider for optional coverages such as fire/theft/collision. In these provinces, it can be hard to get round the combination of registrar and (basic) insurer combined into govenment staff. As stated above, there seem to be conflicting opinions expressed by different staff and conflicting experience with different offices of the same agencies.
"Restored historic vehicle" has a very diiferent ring to it than "old tank" so a great deal may depend on the sympathy/interest/knowledge level of the person you are dealing with and their reaction to your approach.
If you have knowledge of the text of the acts and regulations, you may be able to lead them to accept your position by being able to show the text that permits them to do what you are asking for. Regulations can be written and interpreted as permitting, restricting or prohibiting activities. Hopefully the "historic vehicle" owners can find clauses in the regulations that permit their intended use rather than meeting staff who quote clauses prohibiting the activity.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 26-03-15, 17:55
Perry Kitson Perry Kitson is offline
metal urgest
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: London, Ont
Posts: 462
Default

I have been through the registration and insurance thing more times than I care to remember. In Ontario, you can get a registration for almost anything you want, it's getting it plated and insured that is the difficult thing. As soon as an insurance company knows it's an armoured vehicle, they will not touch it, Hagerty included. If you only give them a little bit of information to get it through the insuring process, it's like Charlie says, be prepared to lose your house and all your worldly possessions in the lawsuit that follows if you are ever involved in an accident.

Perry
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 26-03-15, 18:35
Andrew's Avatar
Andrew Andrew is offline
that halftrack guy
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: ontario
Posts: 200
Default

Perry, hagerty does insure armor, and yes I have sent them many pictures of my halftrack for them to appraise it, so there is no discrepancies in what it is. They happily insured it, and also told me they have more than a few of them insured in the US. I should also note, dont even bother with the a@@hats at Lant insurance who sell hagerty policies, they said no right off, deal directly with hagerty, thats what i did

Andy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perry Kitson View Post
I have been through the registration and insurance thing more times than I care to remember. In Ontario, you can get a registration for almost anything you want, it's getting it plated and insured that is the difficult thing. As soon as an insurance company knows it's an armoured vehicle, they will not touch it, Hagerty included. If you only give them a little bit of information to get it through the insuring process, it's like Charlie says, be prepared to lose your house and all your worldly possessions in the lawsuit that follows if you are ever involved in an accident.

Perry
__________________
1943 White M2A1 Halftrack (converted from an M4A1)
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 26-03-15, 20:40
charlie fitton's Avatar
charlie fitton charlie fitton is offline
HLIofC - Normandy Pl
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Maryhill Ontario
Posts: 942
Default

Give us a name of the agent, then - I'm interested in liability more that replacement, but....

Here's an interesting quote from their page..

" Vehicles must be 1985 or older
Vehicles must be properly garaged
No off road usage
No battle reenactments
Vehicles must be de-militarized (armaments removed or disabled)"

f
__________________
Charles Fitton
Maryhill On.,
Canada

too many carriers
too many rovers
not enough time.
(and now a BSA...)
(and now a Triumph TRW...)
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 26-03-15, 20:58
DanJahn DanJahn is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Maple Ridge, BC
Posts: 188
Default more on insurance here in BC

Hi again

Here in BC when you apply for special plate status you are required to send in pictures of the vehicle with the application so the tracks will sort of be obvious. A fellow now working for Hagerty used to be here in BC with ICBC and was very good for the military vehicle collectors.

Dan
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 26-03-15, 22:11
Andrew's Avatar
Andrew Andrew is offline
that halftrack guy
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: ontario
Posts: 200
Default

There is no agent name on my paper work, broker is
Hagerty Canada- 800 922 4050. They are in the same building as Lant, but they are a floor above i believe suite 409.

You are correct, they do not insure for anything other than road. All guns MUST be deact to legal standards also, no live guns


Quote:
Originally Posted by charlie fitton View Post
Give us a name of the agent, then - I'm interested in liability more that replacement, but....

Here's an interesting quote from their page..

" Vehicles must be 1985 or older
Vehicles must be properly garaged
No off road usage
No battle reenactments
Vehicles must be de-militarized (armaments removed or disabled)"

f
__________________
1943 White M2A1 Halftrack (converted from an M4A1)
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 27-03-15, 01:22
Michael R. Michael R. is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,154
Default

Hagerty will act as agents to insure tracked vehicles in Ontario, Canada?
If you have not allowed your current policy from 2013 or earlier to expire: maybe.
New policy? Nada.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 27-03-15, 15:05
Gord Falk Gord Falk is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Steinbach, Manitoba
Posts: 62
Default

On Jan. 1, 2012 Manitoba passed the The Body Armour and Fortified Vehicle Control Act. Under the act a fortified vehicle is specified as:

"fortified vehicle" means a vehicle that has one or more of the following fortifications:
(a) material that has been designed to be resistant to explosives, bullets or other projectiles on a door or window, or anywhere else on the interior or exterior of the vehicle;
(b) subject to the regulations, protective material such as metal, ballistic nylon or reinforced fibreglass that has been added to the interior or exterior of the vehicle after it was manufactured;
(c) holes or slots that allow a firearm to be discharged from the vehicle without exposing the shooter;
(d) any other prescribed fortification.

Prior to the Act becoming law, I wrote a letter to my local Member of Legislature Assembly regarding my hobby and the impact the act would have. The MLA forwarded my letter to the Minister of Justice. To shorten the story a senior advisor met with me in my shop looked at the vehicles and agreed that we should be exempt and under the regulations military vehicles are exempt. If the change was not made, I would have had to sell my Ferret.

Gord Falk
Steinbach, MB
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 27-03-15, 15:40
rob love rob love is offline
carrier mech
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Shilo MB, the armpit of Canada
Posts: 7,517
Default

I have said it before Gord, and I'll say it again Gord....good work. Note that the exemption for possession of the armored vehicle only applies to the owner under this "feel good" law. It does not apply to the loan of the vehicle. In that case, the possessor would have to obtain the required permit. Cost is $100 and it's good for 5 years.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 27-03-15, 20:32
maple_leaf_eh maple_leaf_eh is offline
Terry Warner
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Shouting at clouds
Posts: 3,081
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gord Falk View Post
On Jan. 1, 2012 Manitoba passed the The Body Armour and Fortified Vehicle Control Act. Under the act a fortified vehicle is specified as:

"fortified vehicle" means a vehicle that has one or more of the following fortifications: ....
This law was passed in reaction to gangsters and criminals armouring the insides of their daily driver vehicles to the point that they were unsafe to steer and brake. The crooks weren't afraid of the cops, only getting attacked and robbed by other gangs. Some provinces have drug gang problems of this magnitude; Manitoba was trying to get ahead of the issue. The same mentality that prevents individuals from owning certain types of body armour.
__________________
Terry Warner

- 74-????? M151A2
- 70-08876 M38A1
- 53-71233 M100CDN trailer

Beware! The Green Disease walks among us!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
For Sale: Wapiti tracked vehicle Bob Phillips For Sale Or Wanted 37 10-08-18 15:57
Tracked vehicle rumour. ShawnC The Carrier Forum 4 21-02-15 14:46
Wanted: Tracked vehicle Ryan For Sale Or Wanted 16 07-01-11 12:57
Year of the Tracked Vehicle (Corowa 08) Ian Pullen COROWA - THE EVENT 173 08-04-08 11:57
Tracked vehicle gjamo Post-war Military Vehicles 2 01-02-07 06:48


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 16:13.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Maple Leaf Up, 2003-2016