Humber FV1600

[Richard Coutts-Smith]

Glad you enjoyed it Clive.
I also have some Humber Off Road Aussie Style footage from the "80's" (Going by the hair styles), but it will take some major editing to put it on You Tube. Should be worth the wait though....
Rich.

[fv1620]

Yes please do. Will look forward to that. Hairstyles are always a give away & of course trousers can tell you a lot too.

[Richard Coutts-Smith]

While at Corowa in March I was stopped in the main stree for an hour talking to an ex Humber owner of many years, and as always, if you listen, you learn.
He saw the badly cracked and repeat welding repairs on the cast iron "Y" exhaust and laughed, saying that this happened on all Humbers as the exhausts were never set up properly. His theory was that one of the 3-1 manifolds needs to "Undertightened" (I think I just invented a new word). The manifold gaskets are a simple aluminium shim that allow the manifold to expand and contract along the head itself, thus saving the "Y" from splitting down the middle. This of course fails immediatly we tighten the manifold up "properly". Much clearer when you have it all explained while looking at it.
However, I have just added to the amount of weld that others before me have laid down, the crack was out to 3 mm when hot, so will try the method outlined above while I save up for a set of headers.
Same Chap also asked if my Humber growled on a cold morning.
Funny he should say that.....I had been trying to tell myself only that morning that the funny deep sounds under the bonnet where nothing to worry about.
Stock phrase for Humbers, "they all do that". It's just the cold dense air coming back from the fan, makes a growling sound that rises and falls with the revs, and fades away once things warm up a little, about 3 or 4 minutes.
Must say it was quite unsettling the first time I heard it.
Shown below is the crack inside the "Y", "Y" in place with the 2x 3-1 manifolds: one of which needs to be just that little bit loose.
Last pic demonstrates the more than noticable engine off-set, just line the tappett cover up with windsreen centre.
Todays photos were brought to you with the courtesy of ARN 105 674.
This was the first ARN assigned to a Humber One Ton (so the lowest number), with the highest being 105 823.
Other trivia for today, ARN's are listed for HUMBER 1 ton CT Cargo, not a Commer as plated, same for the Australian Change in War Materiel (ACWM)
Rich.

[oztankboy]

Hi there Rich!

Well the old "Y" crack happened to mine too! Lucky it happened while i was still posted to a base workshop. I mannaged to get it welded by some one who knew what they were doing then I proceeded to surface grind the face of it so the 2 faces where in the same plane.

When I checked the 2 manifolds I noticed they were not in the same plane but stepped. The proper way to have fixed it would have been to remove them both and got them surfaced ground as a pair however I did not have the time then. What I did do is checked the off set and found that it was about the thickness of the gasket i was useing so ended up useing a double thikness on one side and a single thickness on the other.

Now that was back in 1995 and the old beast has done well and truely over 10,000 klms and still no re-cracking.

Phil...

[Richard Coutts-Smith]

Hi Phil,
Yep, going down that path too, after all the welds the faces are out, although the manifolds look quiter true. Although after seeing the size of the ports in the "Y" and the head manifold I think some fine tuning of the pipework will give a major benefit.
Does yours have a heat shield fitted over the manifold, below the distributor? Noticed today that my spare engine has a casting threaded for the shield, while the original engine has neither the shield or the casting?
Rich.

[fv1620]

That does seem to be a common problem I have seen several over here with that. As you know the Y-piece is different & longer on armoured Humbers & don't think I have ever seen occur on those. Although on the Hornet I did have the front manifold crack.

Ferrets seem to get round the problem by having a gap & once heat expansion takes place a sort of 'seal' is formed.

Rather than shims I use copper covered asbestos gaskets. I found that gaskets for a Vanguard car will do. Although the 4 holes are not quite centred because the holes are larger they fit the studs fine. As the 'square' gaskets are not flat-sided but elliptical I have trim a small section where they are next to each other.

I note there were two types of Y-piece fitted to the GS

FV175019 from chassis 20,000 to 20,681
FV228288 from chassis 20,682 onwards

So I don't whether that was to address the cracking problem or indeed how they differ.

Interesting the official recognition that the 'Commers' are proper Humbers after all

[Richard Coutts-Smith]

Hi There Clive.
Did not know that the Pig had a different "Y", or indeed that there was a choice depending on chassis number. Aust. delivered chassis were in the 11 000 to 14000 range so all had what I assume is the short "Y".
Ferret does seem to have a way better design to allow for the expansion.
We use the Copper/asbestos gaskets on the Champ, thought they were genuine for the B40, either way, they do work well
Any idea as to why I have one engine with a heat shield casting, and one not?
Rich.

[fv1620]

Originally Posted by Richard Coutts-Smith

Any idea as to why I have one engine with a heat shield casting, and one not? Rich.

Rich I think it is because supporting the heat shield from the two manifolds meant there had to be two different components, a forward one & a rear one.

Supporting the heat shield independently meant one manifold could be used in either position. Another factor might have been the difficulty of removing the retaining stud if it had become too encrusted with the effects of heat, rust & time.

[fv1620]

Here is a Pig Y on the left & a GS Y on the right. I have no idea whether it is early or late type.



The parts book for the Hornet gives the same Y piece as for the Pig. But the book is wrong the entire Hornet exhaust system is quite different. The book was based on the prototypes using the Pig system.

But that meant you had a heat source directly under one of the spare missiles in the rear. It also meant loaders were tempted to stand on the end of the tailpipe, although this was later protected by a small armoured cowl.

The production Hornet had quite a different silencer mounted below the radiator accommodated by an enlarged belly plate with the tail pipe exiting in front of the front wheel on the driver's side, sometimes causing hypoxia for the driver.

Hornet Y on the left, Pig Y on the right.



You can see the gaskets I have fashioned from the Standard Vanguard gaskets.

[fv1620]

The GS one looks to be the later type FV228288 although to me the casting looks to read FV228287

[Richard Coutts-Smith]

The Aussy one appears to be the same as FV228288. see attached.
Spare book shows castings for chassis no. 20 000 and above, where does that put the Aussy chassis at 13 000 + 14000?
Can't quite believe the differences in one casting for a short production run of vehicles. I assume these would have been ripped off, when the armoured bodies where fitted, as the inherent design flaw would have been quite obvious by that time. Which would also mean that you should have bucket loads of these castings lying around over there.
Maybe one of the designers had shares in a casting plant?
Obviously the longer legs on the "Y" are able to absorb the manifold movement.
That is the first uncraked short "Y" I have seen.

Not sure if your gasket fitting hammer is quite large enough.
Rich.

[lynx42]

How interesting is that. Thanks fellas for such an insight into the problems of manifolds. I still have to look forward to that problem as my manifolds are still OK. (Hope I haven't spoken too soon.)
Rick.

[Richard Coutts-Smith]

"Rich I think it is because supporting the heat shield from the two manifolds meant there had to be two different components, a forward one & a rear one.

Supporting the heat shield independently meant one manifold could be used in either position. Another factor might have been the difficulty of removing the retaining stud if it had become too encrusted with the effects of heat, rust & time."

Sounds logical to me Clive, but I notice that the engine with the cast Heat Shield mounts is later than the one without (11347). How was the shield mounted without the manifold casting? I do not have one on the Humber, and I assume that the one pictured is bent, and should be flat.
Rich.

[Richard Coutts-Smith]

Appears to be 2 Humbers for sale on a German(?) internet site
http://auto.ricardo.ch/kaufen/fahrze...v/an635194982/
Any one able to translate???
Rich.

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by Richard Coutts-Smith

Appears to be 2 Humbers for sale on a German(?) internet site
http://auto.ricardo.ch/kaufen/fahrze...v/an635194982/
Any one able to translate???
Rich.

Richard,

It is a Swiss site, and looks like it has been a Garage breakdown truck, it says "Day & Night" on the bonnet.

The way I looked at it, it appears to have a reserve which if I have worked it out right, is equivalent to 11,000 Aussie dollars. Perhaps Swiss Chris will see this and translate for you.

[Marc van Aalderen]

2 identische Trucks aus dem 2.Weltkrieg ca Jg.1940. Wurden aus England importiert und als Abschleppwagen eingesetzt. Genaue Bezeichnung: Truck 1 Ton 4x4 C.T. HUMBER F.V.1604AMK1, Chassis No.43348, Contract No. 6/VEH/6443, Vehicle No. 3348. Motor: 6-Zylinder Rolls Royce, Benzin. Bezeichnung: B60 No 1MK5A, ENGINE No 9043. Zum restaurieren. Beide Chassis in guten Zustand. Motoren laufen nicht, da sie schon länger nicht mehr in Betrieb sind. Batterien fehlen. Kabinen und Blechteile sind zum Teil durchgerostet, doch sicher reparierbar. Beide Trucks sind mit funktionierendem Kran und Seilwinde bestückt. Alles muss überarbeitet werden! Gebrauchtspuren und dreckig.

OK, here goes:

2 Identical Trucks from ww2, circa 1940. Were imported from the UK and used as recovery vehicles. Precise type: Truck 1 Ton 4x4 C.T. Humber FV1604AMK1, Chassis no. 43348, Contract no. 6/VEH/6443, Vehicle no. 3348. Engine: 6 cyl. RR B60 no. 1 Mk5A, ser no. 9043. For restauration. Both chassis in good condition. Engines not running due to long period out of use. No batteries. Cabins and metal sheet parts partially rusted through but certainly repairable. Both trucks have a working crane and winch. Everything in need of rebuilding! Traces of heavy use and they are dirty.

Good luck!

Cheers,

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Here is the Google translation: link

The auction ended 27.2.2011, highest bid was CHF 3'010.00 (2,472.01 EUR), buy it now was CHF 9'995.00 - each?

H.

[Richard Coutts-Smith]

Thankyou Gentlemen.
Surprised to see 2 such English vehicles in Switzerland.
Dates are out just a little!
FV1604A = Wireless truck lite
Hope they went to a good home.
Rich.

[Richard Coutts-Smith]

The Humber User Manual makes it quite clear that the air pump (compressor) is not to be run at over 1000 RPM. Below is what happens when you do.
Piston crank is twisted, and the crankshaft housing has been near ripped off. Going by the welding on the crank housing this has happened before!
In my defense: 1/ There is a hand written sign showing "On" and "Off", which is the wrong way around. 2/ It has not worked since I got it, so it may or not be me at fault.
It appears to be a fairly generic item, and that a Ford Blitz one will fit (Right side of Gearbox vs Chev, Left side.) I was quite chuffed with this until I realised that I could not find my Ford one because I sold it at Corowa a few years back.....Ain't it always the way.
Rich.

[lynx42]

Bother,

I hope you don't have too many more problems, Rich. You've had more than you need.

Funny story about mine. When I went to look at it it was supposed to be a sweet runner. When we started it up to take it for a test drive, it had a low down, deep knock like a big end bearing knock. The knock increased with the engine rev's and didn't sound too good. We then negotiated a much better price and I arranged for it to be back loaded to home.
When it arrived at home, it was unloaded in the yard, but not where I wanted it. So, after the truck left I started it up and there was no knock. Well, an intermitant knock is worst than a constant knock, so I drove it carefully to where I wanted it and then had a good look at it. Checked the lights, horn, indicators etc. All worked. I then decided to try the tyre pump and guess what, the knock returned. Sometimes you just have to have a win. Doesn't happen often enough though. And No! I didn't engage it in the first place. (Didn't think of it).

Good Luck.

Rick.

[fv1620]

Originally Posted by Marc van Aalderen

Truck 1 Ton 4x4 C.T. Humber FV1604AMK1, Chassis no. 43348, Contract no. 6/VEH/6443, Vehicle no. 3348. Engine: 6 cyl. RR B60 no. 1 Mk5A, ser no. 9043.

Sold at Ruddington on 3/10/68 for £70, must have been a reasonable one as the others on the day were £40- £50. Still had the same engine 9043.

[Richard Coutts-Smith]

Ok Brains trust,
Changing the gearbox oil in the Humber, smells like it is Gear oil, but wonder if it should be running SAE 30 (Engine Oil) like the Champ does. The user manual helpfully says to use the correct oil, but no list of what this would be.
A point in the right direction would be greatly appreciated.
Rich.

[fv1620]

Oh yes should be SAE 30. At a show in rain parked next to 20+ Champs!!!!!!

[Richard Coutts-Smith]

Clive, knew you would know. Thanks for the prompt reply.
Take it your at the UK version of Champ Camp? If so give my regards to Andrew W, and tell Jonathan to buy another Humber.
Rich.

[fv1620]

I dropped hints about another Humber, but they are all getting excited about next years 60 years of Champs. Even some of you are coming over & from many countries. I wish this sort of enthusiasm extended to Humbers. If you want a Humber fix look at Rogers 1601 metal repairs on the FV1600 forum. Superb.

[Richard Coutts-Smith]

All those jealous Champ owners Clive. We all know they would rather a Humber. Yes a few Aussies will be over your way for the 60th, remains to be seen if I will be one of them.
See the Humber Forum has a new Moderator...........
The panel work on Rogers Humber is mighty impressive.
Rich.

[fv1620]

When they grow up they'll want to be Humbers

[Richard Coutts-Smith]

Clive, I have read at length your article on ignition (Excellent), and am interested in fitting the same electronic ignition from Jolley Eng. Are you still just as happy with it?
Anyone else out there done something similar with a B60.
Rich.

[fv1620]

Rich sorry for the delay been at a show all week.

Yes the Jolley conversion continues to perform well, I must have had it in at least 5 years I think. So no regrets.

I know it is expensive especially when you compare it with a kit to convert say my Shorland which was less than 10% the cost of the Jolley. But it is that base plate & the magnetic poles on the trigger collar you are paying for.

Assuming I could source the basic module & collar, it would be very expensive & time consuming to get an engineering company to make up the base plate. I know of no other comparable kit.

If I was going to benefit from it, I thought I might as well get on with & enjoy the benefits as soon as I could.

Also the improvement in reliability over points & condenser should be seen against the stress & expense of a roadside breakdown.


The show I was at was the War & Peace Show in Kent, UK. Sadly no Humbers CT/GS there although of the 2,600 MVs there were some Pigs. Here is the award in memory of my friend who had 6 Humbers & 2 Champs + I think about 6 Land Rovers.

The brass plaque is a close copy of one removed from a Mk 2 Pig, the other side shows the award details. The recipient for the second years running was Andy Fowler with his Mk 2 pig.

[Richard Coutts-Smith]

Clive, thats quite a few vehicles to look at, of course it would be bit of a let down in the Humber department. Andy's Pig must be pretty flash, perhaps a pic or 2?
That plate is a neat way of commemerating someone who obviously had superb taste.
Have bit the bullet and ordered the kit a few days back, which reminds me, I have not heard back since I paid up.....Shouldn't have told him Clive sent me.
Not a cheap item, but, with the issues of trying to round up new sets of points now and in the future, and with the dollar vs pound rate as good as it is, I went for it.
Think it was terrific that there was a purpose built system for the B60, that just does not happen over here.
Regards
Rich.