F.M.CO Pouches, detachable ammo.

[marco]

I found this pouch recently.
It is marked with "RTCTL .14076 or "PTCTL.14076 and "F.M.CO 1944" , so obviously a Ford product.
The pouch is made from thick cardboard which is impregnated with wax and then painted.
In "Canadian Military Vehicle profiles" by William Gregg it can be seen in Profile No. 5 from the Universal Carrier No2 MkII as "Pouches, detachable ammo, filled mags, Bren, Thompson, Grenades".
A similar pouch was apparently used on the Ford Lynx Scoutcar.

Was this pouch just used on Ford products or also on other vehicles?

Marco

[Michael R.]

Nice find! Complete and not bad condition overall. Nice to see the mounting bracket on the backside.
There is a story of the surplus pouches being used as a promotion by a Canadian beer company, complete with the beer company logo. Bruce H. may know more about that. Were the pouches also used in other vehicles beside the Universal Carriers? I do not know.

The British made pouch is found in leather, quite often the internal "fold and tie" portions are neatly cut off.

[Ron Pier]

Well I never knew about the cardboard pouches! War Economies?
Over a number of years, I have collected a contingent of 8 leather pouches in mine, and most had to have some repair or other. Different colour and grain textures. From memory all are dated and with a TL number so I guess were made specifically for carriers. Ron

[Nigel Watson]

Originally Posted by marco

I found this pouch recently.
It is marked with "RTCTL .14076 or "PTCTL.14076 and "F.M.CO 1944" , so obviously a Ford product.
The pouch is made from thick cardboard which is impregnated with wax and then painted.
In "Canadian Military Vehicle profiles" by William Gregg it can be seen in Profile No. 5 from the Universal Carrier No2 MkII as "Pouches, detachable ammo, filled mags, Bren, Thompson, Grenades".
A similar pouch was apparently used on the Ford Lynx Scoutcar.

Was this pouch just used on Ford products or also on other vehicles?

Marco

The fibre pouche you have found is a Canadian production pouche that was issued to Canadian Universal Carriers. As far as I am aware these pouches were specific to the Carrier but am sure crews of other vehicles or infantry would have grabbed them if available.

There are 4 styles, a smooth leather one with a single leather strap fixing, a grained leather one with two quick release fixings, a soft leathercloth one ( I think with one fixing) and your fibre one. All have shoulder straps, brackets on the back and of similar size.

Nigel

[David Dunlop]

Very nice find, Marco!

That fabrication material is certainly very durable, and must have been common in the 1930's and 1940's.

When my Mum emigrated to Canada as a War Bride from England after the war, she brought with her a collection of family photos in a box made of the same material, which is in excellent shape and still full of the photos, today. It was a container made for shipping HYSIL Laboratory Glass, from Chance Bros. and Co. Ltd, Glass Works, Smethwick, nr Birmingham.

Environmentally friendly stuff way before it's time it seems.

Wonder how many more military items from the war made of this material are going to turn up now?

David

[IanK]

TL14076 was the standard "code" for the British issue leather bags, normally made of pigskin. The earlier ones had a fixed length strap and the mounting bracket was on the same side as the top closing buckle. Later ones had an adjustable strap (probably because the earlier ones were too short!) and the closing buckle was on the opposite side to the mounting bracket (bit daft really as the bracket then rubs on your leg when being carried). There was also a curved leather Bren Mag pouch I think for cavalry.

[Robert Bergeron]

Friends of the Carrier,

Could someone give us the size and measurements of such leather ammo pouches so one could duplicate them ?

They seem rarer than hen's teeth.

Thanks very much in advance.

[Ron Pier]

Here is one of my pouches with a minimum of repair work. The basic dimensions are as follows. More details can be applied if anyone is serious about making them, please ask.
Hight = 11"
Width = 10"
Depth = 4 1/2"
Bottom of metal bracket = 5" from bottom of pouch
The material is about 1/10" grained Hog Skin or something and the strap is thicker about 3/16" and looks like Cow hide. Ron

[kevin powles]

Ron, you ever straped those bren mag bags to your wartime bike, filled them with beer and gone off road!. A lot of people ebay them as pannier bike bags.

:-)

[chris vickery]

I have heard of these as "bail out boxes". Not 100% sure of the authenticity of this claim but if memory serves, the intent of these was as emergency grab and go kits in the event of the crew having to dismount the vehicle.

[rob love]

Originally Posted by chris vickery

I have heard of these as "bail out boxes". Not 100% sure of the authenticity of this claim but if memory serves, the intent of these was as emergency grab and go kits in the event of the crew having to dismount the vehicle.

The original intent of a Universal carrier was "grab and go" as opposed to acting as a fighting vehicle. The Carrier would drop off the Boyes or the Bren along with suitable quantity of munitions, and the carrier would withdraw to a suitably safe position. Perhaps these bags were an evolution from the steel chests of mags provided for the Bren and Boyes. A chest of loaded Bren mags would have been heavy.

[Lynn Eades]

Chris, Yes they were "bail out bags" The early carriers were not originally supposed to "do battle" They were supposed to deliver the gun crew to a point, drop them and retire. Remember the British army was still having trouble with letting go of lining up in ranks of three, facing a similar enemy 150 yards away.Blitzkrieg left the allies lost for answers.
In saying the above, I don't think the bail out bags came into being until the second half of carrier production.

I took too long to put my post up.

[Robert Bergeron]

Thank-you very much for the measurments Ron.

[Ron Pier]

Originally Posted by kevin powles

Ron, you ever straped those bren mag bags to your wartime bike, filled them with beer and gone off road!. A lot of people ebay them as pannier bike bags.

:-)

Yes Kevin. I once saw one on ebay, advertised as a motorcycle pannier bag. The seller seemed quite appreciative when I corrected him and altered his listing accordingly. Ron

[IanK]

If anyone is thinking of making some replacement steel brackets for the backs of the bags I would be interested in buying some, because of the design many have been removed including the one currently on eBay. I have a couple without the brackets but otherwise good.....Talking of which can you still get the copper rivets to fix them on with and if so anyone have a contact?

Thanks, Ian

[Ron Pier]

Just do a google search for copper rivets. There are lots of them. Ron