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  #511  
Old 16-01-21, 01:09
Bruce Parker Bruce Parker is online now
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Often when you see a "C" in front of a number it is a 29 set part.
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  #512  
Old 16-01-21, 21:07
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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Ah, Bruce. You have touched on another of the Great Mysteries in Life: Military Nomenclature. It never ceases to amaze me!

For starters, one practically trips over the letter ‘C’ in Canadian Army communications. In researching my 52-Set, I have seen communications between Canadian Marconi and the Canadian Army where Marconi identifies any wireless set they are referencing by its full name. In the return correspondence from the Army, these names invariably become,’C9’, ‘C9 MkI’, ‘C9 MkII’, ‘C52’, ‘C19’ and on and on it goes. One would think it was to denote the word ‘Canadian’ because the sets were designed and built in Canada, but they were still doing it in the 1960’s when the Plessey 42 Set came over from England for use in the Canadian Army and became the C42. But nothing about the 42 Set was ever built in Canada to my knowledge.

Then you have the British VAOS Directory, which adds a whole new spin.

Take this battery connector for example.

In a copy of the 1940 edition of the VAOS Directory I have, ZA 2270 is indeed a Connector, Single. But the similarity ends there. In 1940 it was a 12-inch cable of lighter gauge and the two end lugs were single hole items. Not at all like this heftier CMC product for the 52-Set.

The 52-Set Manual identifies this cable in the Parts Listings in the back of the manual as ‘Connector, Single #3 ZAC 2270’.

However, in the illustrations in the manual, this same part is identified as ‘Connector, Single No. C3’.

The 1945 and 1948 Master Parts Lists for the 52-Set both identify this part as, ‘Connector, Single No. C2A’ and make note that earlier ID of ‘Connector, Single No. C3’ should be ignored. No mention of the ‘#3’ version at all. But then to add insult to injury, this same part has a new VAOS Number, ‘ZA/CAN 4268’.

I am assuming the ‘C’ in all these part numbers probably refers to ’Canadian’ What I do not understand is if there is any real significant difference at all in the part if it has, or does not have the ‘C’ in its name. Usually, if something is changed significantly, it gets a brand new VAOS Number, and in this example, perhaps that is recognized by this heftier cable getting a new number moving from 2270 up to 4268.

One final stir of the waters with a stick.

The VAOS Directory is a British thing, with quite a long history. Typically, if you see a number like ZA 2270, it tells you it is a British Army part at the very least. What is not clear to me is what a number like ZA/CAN 2270 means. Is this an identical part manufactured in both England and Canada?

If so, then what relevance to parts do listings have such as ZA/CAN/BR 2270? If it started out being made in Britain, and then Canada got involved, why did they bother going back and mentioning Britain again?

Very confusing. But on the bright side, after reading the VAOS Directory for a while, I always feel like going for a drink afterwards!

David
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  #513  
Old 16-01-21, 21:20
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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Default DIALS, Engraved CMC 115-477 ZA/CAN 4653

Just a bit of a way point in the continued direction of this project.

To recap this photo, the original dial to the Sender is the one on the left. All three dials look that bad. the one on the right is the one to be used on the Sender. It was off the Parts receiver.

The original dial is going to become a test bed of sorts. According to what I had read on electroplating, plating metal will not adhere to a cathode item at all if it is not meticulously clean. The existing adonized and painted dial has darkened somewhat over the years but is not that bad. the zinc plating around the rim and central dial plate is another matter. What I am curious about is what will happen if the rim and central metal are carefully cleaned back to good metal and I then electroplate the dial. In theory, no new metal should transfer to the painted section at all. Only the centre, back and rim of the dial, along with the four small rivet heads.

I am going to try it out and see what works and does not. It may be a useful restoration process for the other two remaining dials.

David
Attached Thumbnails
DIALS, Engraved CMC 115-477 1.JPG  
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  #514  
Old 16-01-21, 22:28
Chris Suslowicz Chris Suslowicz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Dunlop View Post
Ah, Bruce. You have touched on another of the Great Mysteries in Life: Military Nomenclature. It never ceases to amaze me!

For starters, one practically trips over the letter ‘C’ in Canadian Army communications. In researching my 52-Set, I have seen communications between Canadian Marconi and the Canadian Army where Marconi identifies any wireless set they are referencing by its full name. In the return correspondence from the Army, these names invariably become,’C9’, ‘C9 MkI’, ‘C9 MkII’, ‘C52’, ‘C19’ and on and on it goes. One would think it was to denote the word ‘Canadian’ because the sets were designed and built in Canada
The 'C' prefix was to denote Canadian design or manufacture because not all of the parts would interchange with the British manufactured set (if such existed).

Quote:
, but they were still doing it in the 1960’s when the Plessey 42 Set came over from England for use in the Canadian Army and became the C42. But nothing about the 42 Set was ever built in Canada to my knowledge.
No, that is entirely different: they changed the set numbering system from the original "Single digit refers to its distance from the sharp end, 2 digits mean the first digit is the 're-design' level, second digit is the role, so you get WS1 = front line set, replaced by WS11, then WS21 (except it wasn't); WS2 replaced by WS12, WS4, 5 & 6 were progressively higher power (only 3 WS6's were built, one for Aldershot, one for Gibraltar, and the third for Hong Kong as the Army Communications Chain).

The "New Range" after WW2 classified sets by their input power requirements, from 'A' - man-portable, runs off dry batteries, through 'B' vehicle mounted, low-power; 'C' medium power; 'D' high power in trucks, and 'E' very high power (static).

I've got the actual figures somewhere... Ah, decided in 1947 as the earlier nomenclature was based on the tactical role:

A - 0 - 10 Watts Dry battery operated.
B - 10 - 100 Watts Low power secondary battery sets
C - 100 - 1000 Watts medium power sets
D - 1000 - 10,000 Watts High power sets
E - above 10kW Very high power sets.

The figures following represented the frequency spectrum and version of the set.

10 - 30 MF/HF band 3-30 MHz
40 - 60 VHF band 30 - 300 MHz
70 - 90 SHF/EHF band above 300 MHz

"Thus a set with an input of under 10 watts with a frequency average of 3-8 MHz and the fourth in its series would be designated A14."

Quote:
Then you have the British VAOS Directory, which adds a whole new spin.

Take this battery connector for example.

In a copy of the 1940 edition of the VAOS Directory I have, ZA 2270 is indeed a Connector, Single. But the similarity ends there. In 1940 it was a 12-inch cable of lighter gauge and the two end lugs were single hole items. Not at all like this heftier CMC product for the 52-Set.

The 52-Set Manual identifies this cable in the Parts Listings in the back of the manual as ‘Connector, Single #3 ZAC 2270’.

However, in the illustrations in the manual, this same part is identified as ‘Connector, Single No. C3’.

The 1945 and 1948 Master Parts Lists for the 52-Set both identify this part as, ‘Connector, Single No. C2A’ and make note that earlier ID of ‘Connector, Single No. C3’ should be ignored. No mention of the ‘#3’ version at all. But then to add insult to injury, this same part has a new VAOS Number, ‘ZA/CAN 4268’.

I am assuming the ‘C’ in all these part numbers probably refers to ’Canadian’ What I do not understand is if there is any real significant difference at all in the part if it has, or does not have the ‘C’ in its name. Usually, if something is changed significantly, it gets a brand new VAOS Number, and in this example, perhaps that is recognized by this heftier cable getting a new number moving from 2270 up to 4268.
I think the renumbering happened when they split the UK and Canadian VAOS to avoid confusion. As far as I'm aware the 'C' in 'C3' just means Canadian manufacture, ZA/CAN, ZA/US and ZA/BR are used to distinguish the different catalogues, and there are parts labelled ZA/US/BR.nnnn (cable clips) where the item from either catalogue can be used because they're interchangeable.
Quote:

One final stir of the waters with a stick.

The VAOS Directory is a British thing, with quite a long history. Typically, if you see a number like ZA 2270, it tells you it is a British Army part at the very least. What is not clear to me is what a number like ZA/CAN 2270 means. Is this an identical part manufactured in both England and Canada?

If so, then what relevance to parts do listings have such as ZA/CAN/BR 2270? If it started out being made in Britain, and then Canada got involved, why did they bother going back and mentioning Britain again?
See above.
Quote:

Very confusing. But on the bright side, after reading the VAOS Directory for a while, I always feel like going for a drink afterwards!

David
The VAOS was originally "description, specification, and price" only. The numbers were added just before WW2 because it was getting out of hand and they needed to streamline orders. (This is why the early numbers are allocated in (mostly) alphabetical order of stores description - as you can see in the 1940 VAOS.)

Best regards,
Chris.
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  #515  
Old 16-01-21, 22:55
Bruce Parker Bruce Parker is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Dunlop View Post
I am assuming the ‘C’ in all these part numbers probably refers to ’Canadian’ What I do not understand is if there is any real significant difference at all in the part if it has, or does not have the ‘C’ in its name
Yes, the C probably denotes Canadian. But it's only so they'd know who to blame if the part broke.
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  #516  
Old 17-01-21, 20:29
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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Default Handles No. 72

The Gloss Navy Grey finish coat on the Handles No. 72 and 80 had cured perfectly by this morning, so I was able to get the next step completed.

This involved reapplying the two red and blue Flick Indicator Dots to the face of the Handles No. 72. I decided to do this with a pair of the round, pointed end toothpicks one can buy at any Dollar Store these days, rather than attempting it with a fine point paint brush. The reasoning behind this was I would be able to have much more control over the amount of paint being applied and exactly where it would go. I felt a brush has a tendency to hold more paint than you expect and would be too flexible in such a confined space as a 5/64-inch hole.

It took a few tries to get a drop of paint on the end of the toothpick that was small enough to pass into the hole. Once ready, a steady hand is needed to insert the toothpick until it touched bottom. They you just slowly lean the toothpick to one side until the paint droplet makes contact with the side of the hole. It then instantly wicks completely around the hole. Straighten up the toothpick and remove it, and you are done.

Once this paint has dried, the next step will be to mask the marker slots on the Handles No. 72 and 80 and apply the flat white base coat paint to them.

David
Attached Thumbnails
HANDLES, No. 72 .JPG   HANDLES, No. 72 Paint Tools.JPG  
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  #517  
Old 18-01-21, 19:58
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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Default HANDLES No. 72 and 80

I was able to apply the flat white base coat to the four marker slots on the Handles No. 72 and the single Marker Slot on the Handles No. 80 this morning. It actually took more time setting up all the little bits of masking tape than the painting itself.

Hopefully tomorrow, I can start filling in the marker slots with the luminous red and green paints.

David
Attached Thumbnails
HANDLES, No. 72 and 80 4.JPG  
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  #518  
Old 20-01-21, 00:36
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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Default DIALS, Engraved CMC 115-477 ZA/CAN 4653

If you check back to Post #513, you will see the original of this dial from my Sender on the left hand side. I had decided to use the spare dial on the right, from my parts receiver, as it was in better overall condition.

I also wanted to try out a test electroplating with this original dial to see how it would work out. The results are in.

In the first two photos today, you can see the original dial after I had cleaned all the metal surfaces with a brass wire wheel on my Dremel Tool. Once the bare metal was cleaned of all rust and other crud, I cleaned the entire dial with a general purpose cleaner and then rinsed it with Isopropyl Alcohol. This was followed by a light coat of car polish, on the black engraved face of the dial, to hopefully further prevent any plating from happening anywhere on it. Then into the electroplating solution it went for just over two hours.

When it came out of the solution, I was very pleased with the even plating around the rim, and once it had dried for about 20 minutes the central hub and rear of the dial looked pretty good as well. As it continues to dry out over the next couple of days, I expect the colour of the plating with lighten some more.

A couple of interesting observations. First, deposits of zinc did occur on the black engraved face of the dial, but only as very small dots of sand. When I rinsed it off in warm water after plating, these all washed away.

Second, the plating around the rim had a fine sandpaper feel to it. I was not sure if this would interfere with the smooth rotation of the dial in the drive assembly when fitted to the bottom of it, so I gave the rim a quick rub with a smooth cotton cloth. This got rid of the sandy feeling and I suspect the dial would turn with no problems in its drive assembly.

So I am now pretty certain I will use this process to refurbish the remaining two dial assemblies on the Sender. No choice really. I have no spares.

David
Attached Thumbnails
DIALS, Engraved CMC 115-477 4.JPG   DIALS, Engraved CMC 115-477 5.JPG   DIALS, Engraved CMC 115-477 6.JPG   DIALS, Engraved CMC 115-477 7.JPG   DIALS, Engraved CMC 115-477 8.JPG  

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  #519  
Old 20-01-21, 00:45
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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Default HANDLES No. 72 and 80

The marker slots on the two handles have now been filled with their respective luminous green and red paints. The red paint is from a different supplier than the green I have been working with, but is also a thicker style of paint. Dries quickly and does not run.

Just letting them cure for 24 hours now.

David
Attached Thumbnails
HANDLES, No. 72 and 80 5.JPG  
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  #520  
Old 21-01-21, 03:11
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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A good day today, and another milestone event in the largely mechanical so far, overhaul of the Sender. All the detail pieces for the Frequency MC Dial Assembly went back on.

A pretty straightforward bit of work, with the usual exception of getting the tab on the spring portion of the Bracket and Spring Assemblies No. C1 to pop back into its locking hole in the front panel. It is doable, but never yet have I been able to accomplish it without the tab cutting into the paint on the panel a little bit.

As I have mentioned before, this job is one to do with the Sender on its back so things stay put. The first parts back on were the front Clamping Plate and the small brass shim dropped over the central post. The large set of holes in the Clamp line up with the large holes on the drive and the smaller holes with the smaller threaded ones on the drive.

When you drop the dial itself in place, just make sure the three small studs in the central portion of the dial are on the side of the central shaft with the ‘flat’ cut into it. You will see a corresponding set of three holes on the bottom side of the Handles No. 72, the three studs on the dial will lock into. The two holes directly opposite each other hold the small pivot pins for the Clamping Screw Springs.

I put the Handles No. 72 face down on the bench and slide the two springs as far back into their slots as they will go. When I see the little central ‘V’ in each spring slide past the pin hole, I drop the pins in place. The next step it to get the inverted Handles No. 72 up off the bench and turned right side up without the pivot pins falling out.

What I do is take hold of the two ends of one of the springs with the thumb and index finger of one hand, making sure the spring ends are at the midpoint of the thumb and fingertips. Then close your thumb and finger so that the tips of each jamb in between the ends of the spring and the sides of the Handle. What this does is pull the spring against the pivot pin, locking it in place. Keep that tension on the spring and lift the entire Handles straight up, keeping it level.

Once you have the Handles above the bench, take the thumb and index finger of your other hand and rotate your wrist counter clockwise, until your thumb is behind your index finger. In that position, grab the other spring ends in the same manner as the first one putting the same tension on that pivot pin. While holding the Handles with your inverted hand, reorient your other hand on its spring so the thumb is also to the rear and reapply the tension on that pivot pin.

With both pins under tension now, you can turn your hands and the Handles right side up, align the flat of the Handle socket with the flat of the central shaft and lower the Handles onto the shaft until it is resting on the Dial. The Dial will now keep the two pivot pins from falling out and you can let go of the two springs. One last small step.

While holding the Handles to prevent it from turning, grab the rim of the dial with your other hand and turn it back and forth until you feel the three studs on it drop into the holes on the bottom of the Handles. The two parts are now correctly aligned. You can insert the central washer and mounting screw in the Handles now but only run it in about half way. And don’t tighten the grub screw yet either.

The odds are very good that when you install the Bracket and Spring Assembly, the rim of the dial will not automatically drop into its slot in the Drive Shaft, so by leaving the two screws in the Handles No. 72 loose at this point, you will be able to slip a small piece of wood under the dial and lever it into its slot. I use half of an old wooden clothes peg for that. Once that is done, the two screws can then be run home.

Once the Handles No. 72 is in place, you can install the four Clamping Screws. Start with the two Blue Indicator ones first. They are the ones that go into the larger pair of holes you noticed earlier. They reach all the way to the rear clamping plate assembly. When you feel the first of these two Clamping Screws catch the threads of the rear clamping plate, insert the second Clamping Screw directly opposite the first one. If you apply too many turns on the first screw, it will pull the Clamping Plate up at an angle and you will not be able to engage the second Clamping Screw. Once they are both engaged, tighten them and then back them off two full turns. This prevents a Flick Frequency being established in error. Then insert the two Red Clamping Screws in the same manner.

That is pretty much all the tricky bits that come with reassembling a Tuning Dial Drive.

Now I just have to repeat this process two more times and the Sender mechanical work will be almost finished.

David

PS: The toothpick in the photos was holding the Lower Flick Arm in place so it could be easily retrieved when it came time to inset the small lug on the end of the Tuning Drive into it.
Attached Thumbnails
WS No. 52 Sender 81.JPG   WS No. 52 Sender 82.JPG   WS No. 52 Sender 83.JPG   WS No. 52 Sender 84.JPG   WS No. 52 Sender 85.JPG  


Last edited by David Dunlop; 21-01-21 at 03:17. Reason: AI Autocorrect errors.
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