MLU FORUM  

Go Back   MLU FORUM > GENERAL WW2 TOPICS > WW2 Military History & Equipment

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-11-17, 14:52
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Winnipeg, MB
Posts: 3,384
Default Solar Radio Interference

Recent Solar activity is presently creating propagation issues in the HF Radio Bands and good communications is a bit of a challenge.

This started me thinking these Solar issues must have popped up from time to time during World War Two. Has anyone ever run across Regimental Histories, or Signals Records where comments were logged about delays due to bad radio communications?

David
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 20-11-17, 08:02
Bruce MacMillan Bruce MacMillan is offline
a Canuck/Brit in Blighty
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Hell Fire Corner, Kent UK
Posts: 697
Default

Google provides a bit of info on this. Try "sunspot cycle 17 WW2". There is the story of east coast US being able to receive Rommel's North African tank communications but have seen no hard evidence.

Solar cycle 17 peaked in 1938 and had bottomed out by 1944. There were flares though that did have strong effects. https://eos.org/features/the-geomagn...september-1941

There are reports of the wireless intercept station near Winterpeg receiving both German & Japanese sigs.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 20-11-17, 18:46
Phil Waterman Phil Waterman is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Temple, New Hampshire, USA
Posts: 3,927
Default Check BBC, CBC, ABC archives

Hi David

You might want to check the archives and some of the technical forums related to BBC, CBC, ABC. Over the years I have dug into particularly the BBC archives online and found a lot of information of interest to me. One comment I would make is if you find something of interest save the whole page, take a screenshot etc. saving links to stuff in the archives is an often futile exercise and the links may not work several years later.

As to listening to shortwave out of Africa in the United States my parents had a Multi Band Radio in the living room which included Shortwave and they told stories of listening to broadcast on a fairly regular basis. (I wasn't born until 1948) My father work for the Naval Research Laboratory in Washington DC on various types of Radar and Radio equipment. My first radio as a kid was a Military Aircraft Radio multi band. I can remember listening to shortwave from all over the world.

Bruce the link to the article is a great one some interesting reading. Was there a major solar flare cycle that coincided mid 50s Geophysical Year. I remember my dad talking about it and taking us out to see the Aurora Borealis one very cold night we drove over to the Chesapeake Bay to get away from the city lights.

Cheers Phil
__________________
Phil Waterman
`41 C60L Pattern 12
`42 C60S Radio Pattern 13
`45 HUP
http://canadianmilitarypattern.com/
New e-mail Philip@canadianmilitarypattern.com
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 21-11-17, 06:18
maple_leaf_eh maple_leaf_eh is offline
Terry Warner
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Shouting at clouds
Posts: 3,081
Default

Something sticks in my mind that during Gulf War 1, just when the sneakies needed to speak to the mothership(s), the solar flares disrupted their comms. Several teams got into trouble with shepherds and other locals and couldn't get extracted.
__________________
Terry Warner

- 74-????? M151A2
- 70-08876 M38A1
- 53-71233 M100CDN trailer

Beware! The Green Disease walks among us!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 21-11-17, 09:14
Bruce MacMillan Bruce MacMillan is offline
a Canuck/Brit in Blighty
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Hell Fire Corner, Kent UK
Posts: 697
Default

[QUOTE=Phil Waterman;244871rom all over the world.
Bruce the link to the article is a great one some interesting reading. Was there a major solar flare cycle that coincided mid 50s Geophysical Year. I remember my dad talking about it and taking us out to see the Aurora Borealis one very cold night we drove over to the Chesapeake Bay to get away from the city lights.
Cheers Phil[/QUOTE]

Hi Phil, Yes, solar activity was strong as the IGY of 1957 was chosen because it was the peak of Cycle 19. For those unfamiliar with solar activity, sun spots and coronal mass ejections can greatly disturb the ionosphere for radio propagation.

I recall the peak of cycle 20 was when I got my first CB set. I could "hear" stations from the Yukon down to southern California.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 27-11-17, 23:53
Dave D. Dave D. is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Canada
Posts: 72
Default Solar Disruptions MV

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Dunlop View Post
Recent Solar activity is presently creating propagation issues in the HF Radio Bands and good communications is a bit of a challenge.

This started me thinking these Solar issues must have popped up from time to time during World War Two. Has anyone ever run across Regimental Histories, or Signals Records where comments were logged about delays due to bad radio communications?

David
Looks like a topic for a new book that is truly out of this World. Searching the direct term ""Solar cycles 1939 - 1945"" may send us to the Library of Congress who are also interested in our Sun.


I wonder if our SIG guys would have records....interesting. A comparison of the solar effects from the 40's to today's equipment could be good for a few pages. I wonder what we've learned?

The topic has legs that will span the centuries and I'd hope has molded the plans of current electrical engineers globally. See what I did there. The Carrington event.....
https://science.nasa.gov/science-new...arringtonflare

Here is one story on WW11.

https://eos.org/features/the-geomagn...september-1941

"""""Seventy-five years ago, on 18–19 September 1941, the Earth experienced a great magnetic storm, one of the most intense ever recorded. It arrived at a poignant moment in history, when radio and electrical technology was emerging as a central part of daily life and when much of the world was embroiled in World War II, which the United States had not yet officially entered."""""

Trying to understand how it all works is still a little magical so some of this info starts me nodding up and down instead of across.

http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/1694701/

"""""The relationships of solar activity on the ionosphere and radio communications may be roughly classified as follows: (1) There are occasional solar flares or outbursts of ultraviolet light which instantaneously produce radio fade-outs of short duration. (2) Occasionally solar streams of particles sweep across the earth's orbit producing magnetic storms and auroral displays. The associated ionospheric disturbances may seriously affect radio communication for several days although the effects are more pronounced in polar regions. (3) The general change of solar ionizing wave radiation in the course of the sunspot cycle governs the average intensity of ionization in the ionosphere. This trend is an important factor governing selection of operating frequencies for radio communication.""""

It's a little off topic but we may be able to use some of these links to look back at the 40's.
Here are a few links that get real interesting when the sun starts talking.

An over-all glimpse at the sun with daily reports, Near Earth Object monitoring and a ton of references/ links for all your Sunny needs.

http://spaceweather.com/

NOAA has a pretty cool site with a 'dashboard' of links to watch many aspects of the sun. The links at the bottom of this page will keep a kid busy for days.

http://www.swpc.noaa.gov/

http://www.swpc.noaa.gov/communities...er-enthusiasts

There was another link to the USAF Wing KP index so we should do a little digging to see what kind of solar research unit existed within the Airforce.

http://www.swpc.noaa.gov/products/wing-kp

One more fun one where you can set different filters, times, colors...fun for kids.

https://helioviewer.org/

Cool topic, thanks for the distraction!

I'm adding this one from our University of Alberta because it's the colorful part of our sun's activity. We can now get text alerts when the Aurora is humming over Alberta.

http://www.aurorawatch.ca/
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 28-11-17, 00:05
Phil Waterman Phil Waterman is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Temple, New Hampshire, USA
Posts: 3,927
Default

Hi Dave

Lots of little threads to follow next time I'm not out in the shop.

The whole topic of solar interference is one that the average Joe or Jill could give a hoot about until the next really big flare occurs and there smart phone gets real dumb real quick.

Cheers Phil
__________________
Phil Waterman
`41 C60L Pattern 12
`42 C60S Radio Pattern 13
`45 HUP
http://canadianmilitarypattern.com/
New e-mail Philip@canadianmilitarypattern.com
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 28-11-17, 02:52
maple_leaf_eh maple_leaf_eh is offline
Terry Warner
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Shouting at clouds
Posts: 3,081
Default Personal military experience with FM skip

In the late 70s my militia training included a crew commanders' course run on weekends in Longue Pointe (ie Montreal) and Camp Farnham. We had M38A1s with RT524 radios and PRC77 manpacks. The spectrum managers had given us a couple of frequencies for the exercise.

At one point out on the trace, we were hearing another English speaking net doing something similar to our training. The North/South axis would have located them in the US southeast states. The fun began when one of our callsigns called a 'lateral left clear', and the other net reacted. Their control immediately announced 'not us, that was the other guys'. Our two exercises were cross-talking on skip. It didn't last long, but while it was happening it was fun.

Among the other things I remember from that exercise, was men talking in their sleep doing voice procedure with each other. I remember feeling hot and gritty, and feeling very dependant on our crews and vehicles. We were living the example of forward recce with just ourselves to rely on. I also remember the fear of rolling over or having an accident with no roll-bars or protection. Windburnt faces and chapped lips, bleary eyes and dusty hair. The nostalgia of youth. All that and about $27 a day pay.
__________________
Terry Warner

- 74-????? M151A2
- 70-08876 M38A1
- 53-71233 M100CDN trailer

Beware! The Green Disease walks among us!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
For Sale: Ford interference suppressor filter Luca Giovannetti For Sale Or Wanted 0 27-08-16 13:16
M38A1 - Distributer Ignition Wire interference with Alternator Wayne Hingley Post-war Military Vehicles 8 23-12-15 23:44
For Sale: U.S Vietnam War 1960's survival radio receiver transmitter radio Dave42MB For Sale Or Wanted 4 23-01-14 19:12
Land Rover Radio bits wanted (US Radio Gear) phoenix Post-war Military Vehicles 3 23-09-08 14:56
ARC 502 radio cletrac (RIP) WW2 Military History & Equipment 2 23-06-08 04:25


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 21:59.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Maple Leaf Up, 2003-2016