Distribution of Ford & Chevrolet CMPs

[Larry Hayward]

Hi Guys,

Did Ford & Chevrolet CMPs get distributed to British & Commonwealth Army units in WW2 on the basis of the type of vehicle required AND the make? If a unit was being equipped say for D-Day would it get all Fords or all Chevs. Would a newly formed RASC Company for example get any old GS 3 Tonner or would someone think it best to keep to one type?

Its obvious from many WW2 photos that once in action the various Armies had to accept whatever replacements they could but thats not to say that they did not start out with all Ford or all Chev.

Were Fords and Chevrolets stored in separate vehicles parks when they arrived by ship?

Your thoughts

[cliff]

My understanding is that most units tried to have just one make of vehicle to make parts supply and maintenance easier but once vehicles needed replacing they had to take what was availiable at the time.

Not sure of vehicle parks but once again I think where possible different vehicle makes were keep togeather as were type of vehicle. For example all Ford 3 ton GS in one place and Chev 3 ton GS in another etc.

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

A very interesting query that I have never thought about before! As regards North African issue, this may have been according to what was available initially from stocks that had either been assembled locally or imported assembled from the UK. I go along with what Cliff said except that in some cases the types were uniquely Chevrolet or Ford.

[Phil Waterman]

Originally posted by David_Hayward
A very interesting query that I have never thought about before! As regards North African issue, this may have been according to what was available initially from stocks that had either been assembled locally or imported assembled from the UK. I go along with what Cliff said except that in some cases the types were uniquely Chevrolet or Ford.

One of the points that came out at the CMP`84 seminar (also discussed in Bill Greggs Blueprint For Victory) was that as one of the major assembly and rebuild yards was run by Ford of South Africa engineers they had a preference for Ford V8 and tended to replace engines with Canadian Ford V8s reguardless of what came out. This resulted in some interesting repowered vehicles Chevy trucks, Carriers, Ford Wots, Buick and even Cadillac’s. The North African staff including Kuno Stockelbach who was one the panelists at CMP`84 with many very interesting details of the rolling changes they were making to keep vehicles on the move and to solve problems.

[Larry Hayward]

I suppose to find the answer to the question, we will need to go back to basics with the help of members in Canada.

If the GMC & Ford plants in Canada produced vehicles did Ford and GMC each have a separate storage site for vehicles awaiting shipment to Europe? And when they loaded ships for the convoys over the North Atlantic did each ship get loaded with same make vehicles - or were all the vehicles stored in Canada in a facility that mixed Chevs & Fords together so that they were shipped out as mixed make.

Only when we know this can we sort out what happened once the vehicles arrived in the UK.

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Well, the answer as regards the UK was that ever since shipping commenced of CMPs in September 1940, they were mixed shipments but those ships took what they could fit on board as space was at a premium. Once in the UK the crates were unloaded at say Liverpool, or possible Greenock, and then railed to storage sites, and then roaded onwards to assembly depots. Those depots varied as to Canadian contracted ones, or British ones of which some undertook work for the Canadian Mechanization HQ in London. However, Lep Transport in Chiswick, west London only handled Chevrolets, and GMCs whereas the Goole branch handled Fords, etc. The CMD in Slough, Buckinghamshire (Citroen Cars) only handled Fords.

After assembly vehicles were issued intot he relevant Canadian or British distribution systems, and this all depended ultimately on stockpiles in Canada and the UK and the way that those crates were shipped and handled on either side of the Pond. That was the determining factor. I hope that the facts and figures that I have from the DND papers will be included in our book as it is quite staggering. Also some crates were never assembled here and in fact were sent back to Canada (after the wood had been repaired) in 1945!

[Larry Hayward]

Thanks David,

So am I right in thinking that the ship cargos were mixed in make and that the vehicle crates were sorted on arrival in the UK back in to Ford & Chevrolet for the respective assembly points? So what would happen with the completed vehicles? Would these then be delivered to separate storage Ford & GMC depots or all mixed up? If an Army unit was indenting for a particular type of vehicle would it have specified a make or just a type as in GS 3 tonner and received a mix of British & Canadian vehicles.

BTW - I am particulary interested in how the new units were equipped prior to D-Day, such as those that had not seen action overseas before so had no 'old baggage' as far as vehicles were concerned.

Thanks in advance

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

From what I can gather, and by coincidence I found some WD papers last night on ex-French GMC and White lorries that were shipped from the US in summer 1940...on whatever ship was available and despending on what space was available.

When the crates arrived they were clearly sorted out somehow. I know that the Canadian High Commission contracted ultimately for four official dumps around the country, including Pearsons in Liverpool and Citroen Cars, Slough. I am not sure whether British vehicles were stored as well...probably not except in the case of Pearsons, as the Ministry of Supply sent crates all round the country for assembly by civvy contractors.

Anyhow, on the side of the crates at the top left side it said "CANMILTRY", indicating the destination/owner was Canadian Military HQ, Lonson. Others may know more than I do but it seems that the Canadian Mechanization HQ (CANMEC) based in CANMILTRY, had a staff that dealt with all the statistics as everything was accounted for, and that included stored crates and costs for assembling them.

I would suggest that as some Canadian vehicles were exclusively assembled by certain of the several Canadian-contracted companies, it was CANMEC that allocated them to those contractors, and then after assembly to units via Bordon. As I said the HQ kept meticulous records of everything assembled and the summary was written-up and updated by VE Day.

As to actual vehicle issue, there was a vehicle census office of the RCOC in Aldershot, which probably moved to nearby Bordon, Hampshire, that was in charge of vehicle numbers. I suggest that Bordon allocated as best they could. I get the impression that vehicles were allocated by way of type, e.g. "3-ton 4 x 4", or "Field Artillery Tractor", or "10 ton Breakdown". Did they try and issue one make as far as possible, for ease of spare parts allocation, but ultimately given the vagaries of the assembly process, have to deliver whatever they could?

[Les Freathy]

David

Do your records tell us how much of this stuff did not make it and sits at the bottom of the Atlantic
cheers
Les

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

The 1940 breakdown mentions certain vehicles by types and numbers of, "lost to enemy action". I just checked the overall breakdown but it only mentions those vehicles received, except for sau some seawater-damaged motorcycles. I think Dr Gregg mentioned about losses at sea, but I only know of the British order F60L chassis (I have most engine numbers) damaged when a railroad train hit a car at a level crossing in April 1941 en route to the ports.

However the data may lie somewhere in the DND papers relating to CMD reports back to Ottawa. However whilst Clive may know if they exist, online searches has not revealed anything other than the existence of the 1942 British contracts and their deliveries by month.