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  #121  
Old 19-09-20, 04:53
Ed Storey Ed Storey is offline
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Default Petrol Tin

Seems to have been quite common.

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  #122  
Old 19-09-20, 10:03
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But! aren't they officers?
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  #123  
Old 19-09-20, 12:19
Chris Suslowicz Chris Suslowicz is offline
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You really don't want to be using a potable water can as a condenser can for a Vickers - there's enough contamination inside the barrel water jacket to make the tea taste disgusting. (So I'm told, at least.)

A MMG is not a suitable tea-making appliance - using a mess tin and plastic explosive[1] is faster and a lot quieter.

Chris. (Has only ever used hexi blocks or a Primus.)

[1] strip the paper wrapping off, roll it out into a pencil-thick sausage and arrange in a spiral on a metal sheet with a bit projecting over the edge. Light the end and follow the flame with the water-filled mess tin. Silent and it even works in the jungle when everything is soaking wet.
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  #124  
Old 25-09-20, 03:59
Ed Storey Ed Storey is offline
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Default Vickers Water Can

This photograph shows the more conventional can being used with these Vickers.

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  #125  
Old 02-10-20, 04:48
Bruce Parker Bruce Parker is offline
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Default A more unusual 2 gal. POL tin

While watching a walkthrough of U-995 (the last surviving Mk.VII German U-boat) on U-tube, l saw this in the rear torpedo room:
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  #126  
Old 02-10-20, 09:57
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Just fueling up the torpedos?
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So many questions....
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  #127  
Old 04-10-20, 06:25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn Eades View Post
Just fueling up the torpedos?
Entirely possible! There was a pic on the Old MLU Forum of a 2 gal POL can with "Torpedo Fuel" embossed on the top.

Of course, why a Canadian made Torpedo Fuel can would be fitted to a U-Boat is another matter.
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  #128  
Old 04-10-20, 12:05
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I guess along with us, there were German kleptomaniacs as well?
(said in jest)
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So many questions....
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  #129  
Old 04-10-20, 17:37
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That sub was used in Norweigen service until 1965. It's possible it was added post-war by Norway using what they had.
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  #130  
Old 04-10-20, 19:32
Harry Moon Harry Moon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Smith View Post
Entirely possible! There was a pic on the Old MLU Forum of a 2 gal POL can with "Torpedo Fuel" embossed on the top.

Of course, why a Canadian made Torpedo Fuel can would be fitted to a U-Boat is another matter.
I have one if anybody needs one to go with their torpedo...
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  #131  
Old 05-10-20, 06:25
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Harry, just for the "porpoises" of this thread, could you post a pic of the top of the can? Another variety to look for.
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  #132  
Old 21-10-20, 04:35
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U Boat Torpedoes had batteries and electic motors .... Germans pionnered that technology . Torpedo fuel ? Could it be a trademark ?
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Last edited by Robert Bergeron; 21-10-20 at 05:20.
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  #133  
Old 21-10-20, 04:58
Michael R. Michael R. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Storey View Post
This adds a whole new meaning to 'gas operated'.

Attachment 116218
A Rifleman introducing the Air Force to a ground gun. . .
anyone notice the Vickers steam hose entry point into the 2 gallon container?
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  #134  
Old 21-10-20, 05:18
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Very nice picture Michael R . Interoperability before it’s time and a proper «*petrol can «* postwar holding water and condensing steam for the MMG.
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  #135  
Old 21-10-20, 18:21
David Herbert David Herbert is offline
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Looking closely at the photo in post #133 I think that the petrol can does not have two filling points but one where the hose goes in and the cap has been placed on top on the opposite corner. Got me going though !

David
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  #136  
Old 23-10-20, 07:46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Bergeron View Post
U Boat Torpedoes had batteries and electic motors ......... Torpedo fuel ? Could it be a trademark ?
US torpedoes ran on an Alcohol liquid fuel:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torpedo_juice

Today, it would be called "Hand Sanitiser".
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  #137  
Old 24-10-20, 04:46
Harry Moon Harry Moon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Smith View Post
Harry, just for the "porpoises" of this thread, could you post a pic of the top of the can? Another variety to look for.
I'll get one for you!
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  #138  
Old 24-10-20, 06:10
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Torpedo fuel oil
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  #139  
Old 25-11-20, 02:29
Bruce Parker Bruce Parker is offline
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Default Thoughts and collective wisdom sought

I recently got this 2 gallon can. It started out as a Canadian GSW 'Petroleum Spirit' (gas) can dated 1940 and painted standard khaki. Then it received a very well done coat of red paint with the lettering in metallic silver stenciled on one side as shown.

I read:

.R.C.O.C. (iffy on the "O")
- M ? - (second letter not round, maybe T or P but very illegible)

So is this a military painted can to the Royal Canadian Ordnance Corp or some post war civilian repaint? If military I would refinish it as-is. Otherwise it gets painted khaki and loaded into a vehicle rack.

What do you think?
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  #140  
Old 25-11-20, 03:25
Ed Storey Ed Storey is offline
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Default Fuel Can

Whatever the markings represent, IMO it would be a shame to refinish or even repaint it.
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  #141  
Old 25-11-20, 04:29
Bruce Parker Bruce Parker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Storey View Post
Whatever the markings represent, IMO it would be a shame to refinish or even repaint it.
Sorry Ed, to clarify by refinish in its current form I mean clean and stabilize. If it is from some post war gas station I really have no interest in preserving the markings and hope no collector of such memorabilia ever finds out.

For my vehicles I need 15 2 gallon and 4 1 gallon cans so it's quantity over quality.
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  #142  
Old 25-11-20, 05:21
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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Bruce.

Somewhere in the Niagra Region of Ontario during the Cold War, there was an entity known as the Regional Operations Communications Centre. Its reason for being, what it actually did, and where, I do not know.

I would put money on the odds that can is connected to that organization rather than the Canadian Army.

David
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  #143  
Old 25-11-20, 05:33
Bruce Parker Bruce Parker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Dunlop View Post
Bruce.

Somewhere in the Niagra Region of Ontario during the Cold War, there was an entity known as the Regional Operations Communications Centre. Its reason for being, what it actually did, and where, I do not know.

I would put money on the odds that can is connected to that organization rather than the Canadian Army.

David
Thanks Dave. The third letter is may be an O but not a C. It might work if the organization was the 'Regional Communications Operations Centre'. The quality of the paint and application tells me this is not a local gas station job.
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  #144  
Old 25-11-20, 05:44
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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I am a Twit, Bruce, and it is wayyy past my bedtime!

The organization I am thinking of is indeed, the ‘Regional Communications Operations Centre’. The rest of my other post is correct. For some reason in this section, my fingers were apparently already in Neverland!

David
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  #145  
Old 25-11-20, 06:12
Bruce Parker Bruce Parker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Dunlop View Post
I am a Twit, Bruce, and it is wayyy past my bedtime!

The organization I am thinking of is indeed, the ‘Regional Communications Operations Centre’. The rest of my other post is correct. For some reason in this section, my fingers were apparently already in Neverland!

David
Google is no help on this but your suggestion makes sense. I can't see the Royal Canadian Ordnance Corp having the need to mark their gas cans in this fashion. A lot of cans I've seen do sport post war paint and even unit or squadron/company markings but these latter are usually very crudely applied.
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  #146  
Old 25-11-20, 08:19
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There are a few alternatives to choose from??
https://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/RCOC

Ron
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  #147  
Old 26-11-20, 14:21
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You have a dilemma Bruce. Paint or not to paint , that is the question ...
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  #148  
Old 26-12-20, 19:13
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Here is a part of my collection of POL from 1940 to 1944.
Jean
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IMG_4887.jpg   IMG_4888.jpg   IMG_4889.jpg   IMG_4890.jpg   IMG_4891.jpg  


Last edited by Jean; 26-12-20 at 19:26.
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  #149  
Old 26-12-20, 19:14
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And the last one...1944
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  #150  
Old 26-12-20, 20:10
Mike Cecil Mike Cecil is online now
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Default Aust cans, drums and spouts

Since this thread seems to have strayed or expanded into 2 gallon cans in general, I thought I'd post an article I wrote about Australian fuel containers and pourers way back in 2004, which was revised and published in the KVE Newsletter in 2013. This is the 2013 version.

There are dimensional and construction variations in Aust cans from Canadian cans (which answers the comment by Ed Storey in another thread about the possibility of there being a common spec across the Empire.) and between Aust cans themselves. There was also the cylindrical 4 gallon drum which I think was peculiar to Australia.

Anyway, article, followed by images, below for general interest. The tables at the very end have lost their formatting, unfortunately.

Mike

Fill‘Er Up, Mate!

Australian-made Fuel Containers and Accessories of the Second World War

By
Michael Cecil

An earlier version of this article was published in the MVPA’s Army Motors No.107, Spring 2004.

The 5-gallon (20 litre) ‘jerrycan’ was a German invention which, soon after being encountered by Allied Armies, was found to be so practical and robust, it was copied, albeit differing in manufacturing detail. Many millions were produced, particularly in the USA, during the course of the Second World War. The design was so good that is still the standard method of carrying extra fuel on vehicles today.

Australia was somewhat later than other Allied countries in adopting the ‘jerrycan’ as standard, with the rectangular 2-gallon can and cylindrical 4-gallon drum being the main containers for carrying extra fuel, water and oil on Australian vehicles during most of the Second World War.

The 2-Imperial Gallon Rectangular Can and Flexible Pourer

The British-style 2-gallon can was a common sight both in the First World War and on the running boards of British and Dominion motor cars during the inter-war period. With the ability to manufacture them in large quantities already well established, it is not surprising that the 2-gallon can became the basic petrol, oil and water container for Australian military vehicles during the Second World War.

In military service, the 2-gallon can became the ‘Cans, 2-gallon Rectangular Petrol, Oil or Water’, shortened to ‘POW can’ for convenience. Various combinations formed part of the Vehicle Outfit List (VOL) of the majority of military vehicle types with the cans supplied with the vehicle by the manufacturer or assembler. The number specified varied with the vehicle type. Ford 15-cwt 4x2 Vans were supplied with three 2-gallon cans, one each for petrol, oil and water, while the Ford 3-ton 4x4 Ambulance was provided with one each of petrol and oil, and 2 water cans. The Ford 3-ton GS (Aust) No.3 Canadian Military Pattern vehicle was provided with one can each of petrol and oil, and three cans of water.

To differentiate the contents of the cans, they had a distinguishing letter painted prominently on the sides. Both the petrol and oil cans were to be finished in the same colour as the vehicle which usually meant Khaki Green Number 3. Stencilled centrally on the faces of the can in either black or white were the letters ‘P’ for petrol or ‘O’ for oil. These could be stencilled on either the two long sides or the two short sides, but rarely on all four sides. Water cans were further distinguished by being painted white overall, with the letter ‘W’ stencilled in black, 3-inch high letters. Again, water cans have been observed with the ‘W’ stencilled on either the two long, or the two short faces, but rarely on all four.

There appears to have been a relatively large number of manufacturers of ‘Cans, 2-gallon, Rectangular’ judging from the many variations. Table 1 provides an overview of several different Australian 2-gallon cans. The first is a pre-war can supplied by the Mobil Oil Company. It was common for companies to have their company logo and name pressed into the sides of the can, and the example is no exception with ‘MOBIL OIL 2 IMP GAL’ pressed into one long side only. The can was originally painted white overall, and had the grade and type of oil stencilled in black paint on the other long side. The materials used to make this can are notable, with the body manufactured from Terneplate (a lead-coated sheet steel) and the filler neck made of brass. By contrast, virtually all of the Second World War vintage cans examined were made of galvanised sheet steel (‘gal iron’) with diecast caps and filler necks: no doubt to cut production costs and conserve lead and brass for more important applications.

The Second World War cans are reasonably uniform in their dimensions and with little information stamped into the can with regard to the identity of the manufacturer. There are notable exceptions, such as ‘Federal’ in Western Australia. These have different dimensions as well as the name ‘Federal Made in WA’ embossed prominently into the top surface under the handle. They also have an octagonal diecast cap, in contrast to the round caps on most other cans. The letters ‘D arrow D’ and the year of manufacture are stamped into the top as well. Curiously, there is also variation in cans from this manufacturer, as another Federal can, this one a water can, has dimensions similar to the more common 9 ¾ inches x 6 inches x 11 1/8 inches. Both the cans were manufactured by Federal during 1943.

The construction of the cans also varied, though the basic construction was always a top, bottom and main body. The rectangular body was joined by either a simple overlap seam or the more robust machine manufactured ‘lock seam’. Tops and bottoms were crimped onto the body using a pair of grooved rollers, and all seams were soft soldered. The filler neck was also soft soldered into place. The handles varied from simple flat sheet, with folded back edges, to pressed handles with shallow grooves for added strength. All were formed into a ‘U’ shape, with most soldered onto the top of the can on the diagonal. Some had the addition of a single Tinman-type rivet at each end of the handle. A few examples have been noted with the handle spot welded into position

Most cans used the same basic pressing for both the top and bottom, but there are exceptions, with one can manufacturer using a flat sheet top with rolled edges that went over the outside of the body and then soldered all round, rather than having a crimped top edge.

In conjunction with the 2-Imperial gallon petrol can was the flexible pourer, designated a ‘Pourers, Flexible (W.D.)’ that screwed onto the filler neck in place of the cap. This was 19 ¼ inches in overall length, with a rigid brass tube of 3 inches at one end. This brass section was fitted with a knurled fitting that screwed onto the filler neck of the 2-Imperial gallon can. It also incorporated a breather which vented through three holes. Stamped into the top face of the breather were the words ‘Keep Vent On Top When Pouring’. The 16 ¼ inch long flexible section was steel and constructed in similar fashion to the flexible pourer provided with the US Jerrycan.

Petrol Funnels

There were two main types of petrol funnels provided by the Australian military, but only one was part of the VOL. This was the ‘Funnel, Petrol, 6-inch diameter, 9-inch spout’. It was part of the VOL of every vehicle, including US Military pattern types and was to be provided by the manufacturer or vehicle assembler as initial equipment. The funnel was manufactured from tinplate and painted. Both Khaki Green Number 3 and desert sand coloured funnels have been observed. The funnel was fitted with a fine brass gauze strainer soldered into the base of the cone, and the top had a non-splash lip which reduced the opening to 4-1/2 inches. A small wire ring was fixed to the top edge of the main funnel cone. There were a variety of manufacturers, with the example illustrated being made by Fitzgerald and Sons, a small sheet metal fabrication company located in Melbourne, Victoria. The name Fitzgerald and Sons was stamped on the face of the main funnel body, together with the Department of Defence symbol ‘D arrow D’.

The second funnel was a much larger, square section funnel known as the War Department Pattern. It was of British design, made of tinplate, had a removable gauze strainer, and was quite large and cumbersome. Curiously, this type is still in service today!



The 4-Imperial Gallon Cylindrical Container and Flexible Pourer

The ‘Containers, 4-Gallon, Cylindrical’ used for fuel was 10 ½ -inches in diameter and stood 14 ¼ inches tall. Unlike the 2-gallon cans, the 4-gallon drums were made exclusively from 24-gauge Terneplate. They had pressed metal ends that were rolled onto the body of the drum, and end-closed (rolled crimp) in such a fashion that they sealed against leakage. The body of the drum had two raised strengthening ribs around the circumference, one each 2 ¾ inches from the top and bottom edges. The main seam of the body was lock-seamed by machine. The bottom included the makers name, place and date of manufacture, and may also gauge of the metal. The top was more complicated, with the words ‘Dangerous for Drinking Water’ pressed into the top in ½ inch high letters. The top also had a small wire handle and incorporated a threaded opening for the round diecast cap. Although there were a number of manufacturers, the size, positioning and type of information pressed into the ends appears to be the same.

Drum colour appears to have been mainly Khaki Green No.3, though one can in the authors collection shows traces of a sand colour. The markings on the drums was reasonably uniform. The letters ‘D arrow D MOTOR SPIRIT’ in black is shown in some photographs, while other examples have ‘M.T. PETROL’ stencilled in either 2-inch high white letters or 2 1/8 inch high yellow letters.

Fuel could be poured from the drum using a ‘Pourers Flexible (Aust)’. This was a diecast spout that incorporated an air bleed hole, that screwed into the top of the drum in place of the cap. The diecast spout also included the manufacturer’s name and the Defence Department symbol Attached to the spout was either a 12-inch long rubber hose or, for Machine Gun Carriers, a 2 feet 6 inch hose. The hose was wound externally with a wire that provided rigidity but also allowed the hose to be bent to shape.

Neither the 4-gallon drum or the flexible pourer were standard issue items with vehicles, but supplied to Units as required. Many Australian vehicles carried these items on a regular basis, particularly before the US manufactured jerrycan became common.

Neither the rectangular 2-gallon or the 4-gallon cylindrical containers saw great service in the post-Second World War period. The 4 gallon drum in particular appears to have been largely superseded by the jerrycan before the conclusion of the war. The 2-gallon can persisted for some time in the post-war period as they were part of the Vehicle Outfit List of many vehicles. Even then, it would appear that they were not used much, with the majority of troops transporting their additional fuel supplies in the much more convenient 5 gallon jerrycans.


Copyright Michael Cecil 2013. May not be reproduced, in whole or in part, without prior permission of the author.


Photograph Captions:

Plate 1: (2 gal water can) The Cans, Rectangular, 2-gallon, Water. This can has the original white painted finish and black stencilled ‘W’ on the two long sides.

Plate 2: (2 gal can top) The top and bottom of many 2-gallon cans were the same pressing. This one has the round diecast cap and spout characteristic of cans made during the Second World War. Note the keeper chain on the cap to avoid loss.

Plate 3: (2 gal can bottom 1) The base pressing was the same as the top on many cans. Note the squared out section on the second indentation from each end. When used as the top of the can, these areas were where the handle was soldered on.

Plate 4: (2 gal can bottom 2) There were a number of variations to the design of the pressings in the top and bottom. This can has three equal pressings, in contrast to the six irregular pressings more commonly encountered.

Plate 5 (2 gal can with spout). The 2-gallon can had its own dedicated flexible pourer that screwed over the spout. It was equipped with a breather and filter strainer, and could be bent into an arc to assist with refuelling.

Plate 6: (6 inch funnel) The 6-inch funnel with 9-inch spout was standard equipment on all Australian military vehicles, and was listed as part of the Vehicle Outfit List (VOL) in the mechanical Vehicle Field Specification (MVFS).

Plate 7: (4 gal cans side) The ‘Cans 4-gallon Cylindrical’ was the predecessor of the jerrycan in Australian service. For the latter part of the Second World War, both were in widespread use, but the more convenient and rugged jerrycan became the fuel container for the post-war Defence Force.

Plate 8: (4 gal can end) the top of the 4 gallon can was a pressing that incorporated the words ‘Dangerous for Drinking Water’ and the Defence Department broad arrow symbol. The deep flange around the top, and slightly smaller flange around the base made it possible to stack the 4 gallon cans on top of each other.

Plate 9: (4 gal can ends) The base of the 4 gallon can had the name and location of the manufacturer, as well as the date and gauge of metal used.

Plate 10: (4 gal pourer) the 4 gallon can had a flexible pourer, with a diecast spout. His incorporated the makers name, location and the Defence Department symbol. A breather hole was also included in the casting, and a fuel-proof fibre washer ensured a good seal with the top of the can.



Table 1 Examples of Australian 2 Imperial Gallon Petrol Oil and Water Containers

Length
(Ins) Width
(Ins) Height
(ins) Manufacturer Handle Type Pressings Material Cap and spout
9-3/4 6 11-1/8 Not known
Civilian can sold by automotive oil company.
See note 1. Pressed 1-3/8 inches wide, 4-1/4 inches long, soldered to body Has MOBIL OIL in 2-inch high and 2 IMP GAL in 1 inch high letters on one face of can.

6 consisting of 2 sets of 3 parallel pressings 5/8 inches wide and 4-3/8 inches long. 26 gauge Terneplate lead-coated sheet steel Angled 1-1/4 internal diameter brass filler neck with a diecast cap with 4 raised curves

9-3/8 6-3/8
11-1/2
Not known
Marked as Water can, painted white with black ‘W’ on each short side. Folded edges, 1-1/10 inches wide, 5-3/10 inches long, soldered to body
3 each on top and bottom panels, 1-1/8 inches wide, 4 inches long
26 gauge galvanised iron Angled 1-1/8 inch internal diameter filler, diecast with diecast cap with 4 raised curves

9-3/4 6 11-1/8
Not known Folded edges, 1-1/8 inches wide, 4-1/4 inches long, soldered to body
6 consisting of 2 sets of 3 parallel pressings 5/8 inches wide and 4-3/8 inches long 26 gauge galvanised iron

Angled 1-1/4 inch internal diameter brass filler neck with a diecast cap having 4 raised curves around the top edge.

9-3/4 6 11-1/8
Not known Pressed, 1-3/8 inches wide, 4-1/4 inches long, soldered to body
D D in raised letters pressed into base. Letters are 3/8 inches high.

6 consisting of 2 sets of 3 parallel pressings 5/8 inches wide and 4-3/8 inches long

26 gauge galvanised iron

Angled 1-1/4 inch internal diameter brass filler neck with a diecast cap having 4 raised curves around the top edge.

9-3/4 6 11-3/16 Federal Pressed handle 1-inch wide by 4-1/4 inches long. Soldered and riveted with one Tinmans rivet at each end. 6 consisting of 2 sets of 3 parallel pressings 5/8 inches wide and 4-3/8 inches long.

Made in WA and Federal pressed into top
D D and 1943 stamped into top 26 gauge galvanised iron Angled 1-1/8 inch internal diameter filler, diecast with diecast octagonal cap. Cap has chain linked to filler neck
9-1/2 6-3/8 11-1/2 Federal Folded edges, handle is 1-inch wide by 5 inches long. Handle soldered to body 6 consisting of 2 sets of 3 parallel pressings 5/8 inches wide and 4-3/8 inches long.

Made in WA and Federal pressed into top
D D and 1943 stamped into top 26 gauge galvanised iron Angled 1-1/8 inch internal diameter filler, diecast with diecast octagonal cap. Cap has chain linked to filler neck

Note 1: This is a pre-war civilian oil container. The details are provided here as a basis of comparison with war-time production cans.


Table 2 Australian 4 Imperial Gallon Fuel Containers


Diameter
(inches) Height
(inches) Manufacturer Handle Pressings Material Cap
10-1/2 14-1/4 Simpson 3-1/2 inch long wire loop in centre of top of drum, held in position by 2-5/8-inch long saddle ‘Dangerous for Drinking Water’ pressed in raised letters ½-inch high on top of drum.

‘D D’ pressed in ¾-inch raised letters in central area of top of drum

‘Simpson’ and ‘Adelaide’ pressed in raised letters ½-inch high into base of the drum, plus ‘11-41’ and ‘24G’ 24 gauge Terneplate lead-coated sheet steel Round diecast with fibre sealing washer. Has D D cast into base of slot in top of cap
10-1/2 14-1/4 Dawson 3-1/2 inch long wire loop in centre of top of drum, held in position by 2-5/8-inch long saddle ‘Dangerous for Drinking Water’ pressed in raised letters ½-inch high on top of drum.

‘D D’ pressed in ¾-inch raised letters in central area of top of drum

‘Dawson’ and ‘Sydney’ pressed in raised letters ½-inch high into base of the drum, plus ‘24-4-45’. 24 gauge Terneplate lead-coated sheet steel Round diecast with fibre sealing washer. Has D D cast into base of slot in top of cap
Attached Thumbnails
KVE 13-04 P1 2 gal water can.jpg   KVE 13-04 P2 2 gal can top.jpg   KVE 13-04 P3 2 gal can bottom 1.jpg   KVE 13-04 P4 2 gal can bottom 2.jpg   KVE 13-04 P5 2 gal can with spout.jpg  


Last edited by Mike Cecil; 26-12-20 at 20:23.
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