Saving Private Ryan flaws

[Garry Shipton (RIP)]

Was watdhing the movie AGAIN,and each time I pick out similarities.
1)The helmsman on the Higgans boat who yells out "thirty seconds" is the same guy,the radio man ,whose face is blown off on the beach
2)When one of the soldiers takes off his helmet and the guys say he's lucky,then gets one between the eyes is also killed when the Higgans' boat ramp goes down when they're about to disembark(use the pause button to pick him out)as the machine gun sprays the ramp
3)The German soldier who saves Uppum at the final battle is one of two soldiers surrendering on the beach when two GI's shoot them and one GI asks"What did he say>",and thee other says "Look I washed my hands"
Anyone else pick out wrong scenes ??

[servicepub (RIP)]

From memory;
After the section attacks the MG emplacement - where they lose a guy, reducing them to six, there is a scene showing them walking along the crest of a hill - miraculously with seven soldiers.

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

It was captivating when it first came out simply because it was so different from prior films... but it has since been totally overshadowed by Band of Brothers. Hanks obviously learned from it. I have a copy on VHS, but doubt I'll watch it again, but I WILL watch BoB time and time again. Just wish that someone could afford to do something similar for the Canadians (they should film THE LONG ROAD HOME, by Fred Cederberg).

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Originally posted by servicepub
From memory;
After the section attacks the MG emplacement - where they lose a guy, reducing them to six, there is a scene showing them walking along the crest of a hill - miraculously with seven soldiers.

Yeah, elite Rangers making a frontal attack up a hill across open ground against a dug-in position. Yeah, right. And then letting their captive go.

[servicepub (RIP)]

Originally posted by Garry Shipton
Was watdhing the movie AGAIN,and each time I pick out similarities.
3)The German soldier who saves Uppum at the final battle is one of two soldiers surrendering on the beach when two GI's shoot them and one GI asks"What did he say>",and thee other says "Look I washed my hands"
Anyone else pick out wrong scenes ??

This is the famous elite German Army unit "Heeres Dopplegangerkommando" manned exclusively by twins and triplets. I encourage our moderater to set up a separate thread solely for the study of this unit. It could be named "Soldiers in Stereo"

[Pete Ashby]

Originally posted by Geoff Winnington-Ball
It was captivating when it first came out simply because it was so different from prior films... but it has since been totally overshadowed by Band of Brothers. Hanks obviously learned from it. I have a copy on VHS, but doubt I'll watch it again, but I WILL watch BoB time and time again. Just wish that someone could afford to do something similar for the Canadians (they should film THE LONG ROAD HOME, by Fred Cederberg).

Strange I never did warm to SPR for me it always had that slightly contrived element of Hollywood. I think it has something to do with the way the camera angles are set up so that each time frame has a small segment of story in it, having said that the actual landing sequences are very powerful.
BoB on the other hand is for me ground breaking stuff. The utter futility of war is so skilfully demonstrated not by set piece vignettes but by the use of seemingly totally pointless loss of life coupled with a chilling acceptance of others involved. It has all the more poignancy for the OCMPG as all of the English actions took place in local villages and airfields. I know a number of local people who remember those guys being here in 1943/44.

I don't know about you Geoff but I have to be in a certain mood to be able to view BoB or else I find it has a really depressing effect on me. That to my mind is powerful stuff. I agree with you and hope one day that either British and/or Commonwealth forces can be treated in a similar vain, sadly I fear it will not attract the same level of investment

Pete

[Garry Shipton (RIP)]

Now .if there were a subject to make a movie about,it would be Vimy Ridge.The British papers at the time exaulted this as a British victory.Also the New York newspapers claimed it as a victory for Canada.Watch the movie about Sargeant York where after capturing German prisoners in WW1,was given the Congressional Medal of Honor.Hell,no offence to the USA.but our guys were doing this every day,and,no medals.

[alleramilitaria]

in the surf when the first ryan is killed there are some modern .30 cal cans in the surf.

about medals, i think it was a "look at this farm boy" we need a hero thing. just like A. murphy. there past was clean, they did a great thing, and they would be great poster boys.

[Garry Shipton (RIP)]

But,I wouldn't put Audie Murphy in the same context with Alvin York.He won his CMH over many battles.We customized the term "Trench Raids"The British were amazed at the amount of prisonerss our troops were bringing in throughout the war.Read Pierre Berton's book VIMY for an insight of what we diHave a warm day my friend

Originally posted by Pete Ashby
Strange I never did warm to SPR for me it always had that slightly contrived element of Hollywood.

Ah yes, Shaving Ryan's Privates, again.

All very well but what about the VEHICLE howlers?

No points for the T34 tigers or the "suggested" rocket armed Mustang/Typhoons, but there are two dreadful errors.

I agree with you and hope one day that either British and/or Commonwealth forces can be treated in a similar vain, sadly I fear it will not attract the same level of investment

We've been here before. . . . . . . . . . . .

Will never happen while the big budget film finance lies across the water and popular belief has the British and Commonwealth forces paddling ashore unmolested and sitting around Caen for a fortnight making tea with nothing better to do.

R.
(Panicking - two weeks before Overlord 2006 set-up)

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Originally posted by Richard Notton
(Panicking - two weeks before Overlord 2006 set-up)

Wishing I were there to assist in this... it was my objective, but, alas and sadly, outside the scope of my finances at present. I miss the crew there, though, and you may pass that along on my behalf.

Originally posted by Geoff Winnington-Ball
Wishing I were there to assist in this... it was my objective, but, alas and sadly, outside the scope of my finances at present. I miss the crew there, though, and you may pass that along on my behalf.

Certainly, no problem.

We shall have the MLU sign board near Dave's DTB F15 and hopefully some further examples of the genre supplied by the OCMPG together with their associated O&PTG.

The real army has entered three different groups and promised to bring "tracks"; I told them a Ch 2 would be nice and could I have a drive. I think it will be CVRTs though especially as we seem to have the Oz version of the Oskosh transporter.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/dorset/4759377.stm

Without the benefits of dictats from the ivory tower above, our more liberal policy has seen the living history jump from 8 persons to 250 this year and club membership up from 60 to 108.

Must rush and do some more show stuff before work.

R.

GOOD thing thier wern't any canadians in the MOvie it would of ruined it, opps sorry they were getting captured at the time Just my memory


BIG MIKE

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Pete Ashby
having said that the actual landing sequences are very powerful.

Whatever one might say about extra's being used in several scenes, wrong ammo cans, vehicles and other flaws, I don't really care.

The landing sequences are like Pete said, very powerful. I've seen the whole movie once, but the first bit several times over. I think it is as close as a movie can come to the real thing. Chilling!

My €0,02 worth anyway.

H.

[wim sikkelbein]

You problably heard this one already but I didn't see it mentioned here so,

the "hemmbalken" are pointing in the wrong direction, into the sea instead of towards land.

Wim

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Originally posted by BIG MIKE
GOOD thing thier wern't any canadians in the MOvie it would of ruined it, opps sorry they were getting captured at the time Just my memory


BIG MIKE

Mike, may I ask what you're inferring here? I find this rather offensive.

[Garry Shipton (RIP)]

we didn't have time to star in movies as our 2nd Division were too busy fighting the toughest veteran German divisions that they could throw at us on the Normandy front which,I am sure someone else on this thread will cooraborate

[alleramilitaria]

i think a canadian or british movie about june 6th would sell well world wide. just look at the light horsemen, and other period movies. it just takes a great script and....... well MONEY.

we all have a ritch history and unlike many americans i understand that we did not win the war all by ourselvs. it was a team effert

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
The landing sequences are like Pete said, very powerful. I've seen the whole movie once, but the first bit several times over. I think it is as close as a movie can come to the real thing. Chilling!

My €0,02 worth anyway.

H.

Oh McSpool. . . . . . . . . . . . . .

I would agree that the landing sequence was very powerful and I suspect possibly toned-down from accurate reality to pass the censor. From an initial excellent start, the burning Morris-Commercial MRA1 on the cliff tops then destroyed the illusion for me; surely a big-budget film could have faked up a realistic Opel Blitz? Especially after all the pre-release hype about historic accuracy.

That bit was done in Ireland and the vehicle supplier wasn't who is credited on the film; some brilliantly accurate Normandy scenes with absolutely correct vehicles were set up but these reside on the cutting room floor, although there are some stills. . . . . . . . .

The full-frame gaffe of a Ural or Dnepr combination (I've forgotten which) for Mr. Hanks to die against was made by a wardrobe person while the vehicle expert was despatched elsewhere; galling when you know several genuine R75s were just out of shot. This post war Russian fake was actually supplied for stunt driver long shots and never intended for any close-up work.

A requested re-take was denied.

R.

[peter simundson]

Big Mike, old boy, Sunray has a point. You need to explain what you said. In my Regiment the Unit suffered 65% casualties on D Day with one boat having 23 out of 31 killed getting off and on the beach. They don't deserve a cheap shot.

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Originally posted by peter simundson
Big Mike, old boy, Sunray has a point. You need to explain what you said. In my Regiment the Unit suffered 65% casualties on D Day with one boat having 23 out of 31 killed getting off and on the beach. They don't deserve a cheap shot.

I'll go one step further. My first commanding officer landed as a Rifleman with the Reginas on D-Day. He was one of the finest men I've ever met.

I've also had the privilege of saluting both of the Daltons of the Queen's Own, who lead companies ashore at Bernieres-sur-Mer. Working for Metro Ambulance in the eighties, I worked with a Queen's Own medic who made all the way through until April 1945 before being wounded.

The officer who commanded my Basic Officer Course jumped into Normandy with the 1st Canadian Parachute Battalion, as an 18 year-old PTE. Need I go on, sir?

And I can PROVE the Canadians took higher casualties than any other power in Normandy. And any of us could take this however far you want.

Just ask any of the Dutch about the Canadians, too.

Goddamit, Mike, you owe us ALL an apology. If it's not immediately forthcoming, you're out of here for good. WE WILL NOT TOLERATE THIS TYPE OF BULLSHIT, TOWARDS ANYONE. Politicians are fair game, but that's a whole other issue, and even then, the rules of etiquette apply. If you can't accept this, please state so NOW.

Your call, sir.

SUNRAY SENDS AND ENDS

Sorry Lads if I was Nasty on my last Comment, I just Don;t like people knocking on My counrtys Military BASED on a movie, Also Did I say WHO they were being Captured By??? FROGGY WOMEN!!! Geoff I thought you couldn't Cuss on the Forum??? Also Don't call me "Sir" I work for a Living !! LOL

Seems you need sum movies made of your Canadin Miltary on D-Day, Books don't cut it. All I heard of the Brits and Canadians is that they had a field day on Juno and Sword, That's coming from my Great Uncle as he was in the Guards Armoured DIV (Coldstreamers) witch landed in Normandy and Storys from old RNF lad's(50th Div) who live hear in the States, you know the sad part about it is that they ask "why them not me" living a good full life. THe only canadian Regt I know of is the the North Nova Scotia Hiighanders"Origanels". and the people in the Northeast of USA,like in New England think of Nova Scotia, as part of thier own. So Geoff I wasent trying to Down play your Military in WW2 , just Practice what you Preach mate. Cheers

Just my opinion from the heart



BIG MIKE

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Mike, I have but two things to say.

(1) I have nothing but praise to give to your Armed Forces' personnel. I'm betting I know know more of them PERSONALLY than you do, including WW2 vets.

(2) "Books don't cut it"? How the hell you you think humanity progressed to where it is now? I have news for you: Books.

Your degradation of others' accomplishments and sacrifices in trying times is despicable, especially considering there was no reason for it. The topic was simply was what is perceived as a flawed movie by a Hollywood actor, one already acknowledged - here - to have modified his pespective in his next great project.

SIR, your position is indefensible. That fact has been noted by many in private communications, including some of your countrymen who strangely don't seem to share your one-sided viewpoint. You have already demonstrated your ignorance of our contribution to WW2; don't take it further by comments like suggesting we had ONE regiment in combat. If you read "books", or even other topics in MLU, you would know otherwise.

Be advised, you are on watch.

SUNRAY SENDS AND ENDS

Originally posted by BIG MIKE
Sorry Lads if I was Nasty on my last Comment, I just Don;t like people knocking on My counrtys Military BASED on a movie, Also Did I say WHO they were being Captured By??? FROGGY WOMEN!!! Geoff I thought you couldn't Cuss on the Forum??? Also Don't call me "Sir" I work for a Living !! LOL

Seems you need sum movies made of your Canadin Miltary on D-Day, Books don't cut it. All I heard of the Brits and Canadians is that they had a field day on Juno and Sword, That's coming from my Great Uncle as he was in the Guards Armoured DIV (Coldstreamers) witch landed in Normandy and Storys from old RNF lad's(50th Div) who live hear in the States, you know the sad part about it is that they ask "why them not me" living a good full life. THe only canadian Regt I know of is the the North Nova Scotia Hiighanders"Origanels". and the people in the Northeast of USA,like in New England think of Nova Scotia, as part of thier own. So Geoff I wasent trying to Down play your Military in WW2 , just Practice what you Preach mate. Cheers

Just my opinion from the heart



BIG MIKE

Originally posted by BIG MIKE
All I heard of the Brits and Canadians is that they had a field day on Juno and Sword, BIG MIKE

From all I've learned of Juno Beach and D-Day (I don't know much about Sword as my focus was on family involvement through Juno) , it was everything BUT a field day. The thread that brought me here originally in search of information about an Uncle of mine who landed on Juno on D-Day (actually one Uncle died on Juno during the landing) is full of information about the Canadians on D-Day and later ... as are many threads in the history area of MLU Forums, if you'd like to get more realistic information about what the Canadians were like, and went through, on Juno and later. All soldiers from all Allied forces who helped fight and end the war are on the whole, very respected by all of the MLU community. MLU being focussed primarily on Canadians during WW2, but lots of info throughout MLU that honours all soldiers who took part. Thats my impression of this place and these people of MLU.

If you want to know more what the Canadians were like during Juno, ask a Canadian Vet who was there ... and expect the facts.

Here is the link to the post and purpose for me being in MLU. Loaded with facts and info if you'd like to read through it.

http://www.mapleleafup.org/forums/sh...+executed+POWS

Karmen.

If my Counrty men would come forward and Speak thier Minds, I say OK , BUT I did Apologieze, and that was what was asked of Me. No further Comments on this issue will be needed if you are trying to Pursue in trying to get BIG MIKE all Flusterd, exept that I love BOOKS, BOOKS are GREAT!!!! tought me How to operate a 300 ton Train for a living Who saz I'm trying to ruin Who's ww2 Sacrifise??? never said that.



CHEERS HOMIE


BIG MIKE

[alleramilitaria]

mike
i think you may have ment what you said in jest (or i hope so) but you have crossed all sorts of lines in the past 24hrs. you have managed to insult the canadians, brits, aussies, and the americans in a hurtfull way.

1. lighthorsemen the aussies DEMANDED to charge the guns at bersheiba, the brits thought it would be a waste of good men.

2. the brit general there was known to listen to all his commanders brit, aussie, NZ, and SA. this was in starc contrast to the european generals

3. i have been on the canadian beaches. they were HEAVALY fortifyed and still are today.

4. if you think it was so easy please go and walk the graves that overlook the beaches

5. and yes the US military is extreamly screwed up sometimes, just like everyone else i think i have the right to say that after 21 years 4 wars and 70+ disibality

please do everyone a favor, please apoligise

I like that, Good Show Dave!!! you Spoke your Mind and I'll respect everything you said from the second line down. Cheers


BIG MIKE

[Pete Ashby]

Mike

I don’t intend to get into a fight with you over this but be so kind as to permit me one observation for a man who comes from a country who prides itself on being in the forefront of communication technology you do seem to be somewhat restricted in knowledge of the world outside of the USA.

I can assure you if you take the trouble to find the correct books the subject is more than adequately covered both from the historical and personal aspect.

As a closing point I too find your suggestion that the landings Sword and Juno beaches were a ‘field day’ highly offensive as well.

To close, I note your comment in a previous post that ‘in My country' well Sir 'in my' country.......... small m you will note......we tend not to air our views until reasonably certain of our facts.

Pete

Whatever Pete, It's over Cheers


Big Mike

[John McGillivray]

One must remember that the other American Beach “Utah” had the weakest defences of the five D-Day beaches. It was the only beach where the bombings by the USAAF , conducted by medium bombers from low level, hit the beach defences. The result is that the troops landing there suffered the fewest number of causalities. They also had the shortest distance to travel inland to reach their final objectives, but failed to do so.

The landings on Omaha beach were almost a failure. It took the actions of two Royal Navy destroyers, which came in close to shore to blast the German defenders from almost point blank range, to get the Americans off of the beach.