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  #1  
Old 01-11-19, 09:09
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Clint Tauber Clint Tauber is offline
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Talking 1953 M37CDN Paint Complete

Well, almost, still have to do the doors, but I am pleased with my hand painted markings on the hood.
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  #2  
Old 01-11-19, 16:22
Ed Storey Ed Storey is offline
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Default Vehicle Markings

Those are very nice hand-painted markings! Are they based on a specific vehicle as the tactical sign markings evolved over time.
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  #3  
Old 01-11-19, 17:31
Stuart Fedak Stuart Fedak is offline
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Default M37 in Masset

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint Tauber View Post
Well, almost, still have to do the doors, but I am pleased with my hand painted markings on the hood.
Clint, You should take some photo of the M37 in front of the elephant cage.
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  #4  
Old 01-11-19, 20:41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Storey View Post
Those are very nice hand-painted markings! Are they based on a specific vehicle as the tactical sign markings evolved over time.
Yes, I carefully replicated what I found under the paint. The doors will have the CAR number and white diamonds.
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  #5  
Old 02-11-19, 11:09
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The markings were very carefully uncovered, measurements taken, and replicated as closely as possible. The doors had the remains of a triangle, a square, a circle, and a diamond, all in white, so it belonged to different squadrons during its career. Any information about the markings would be welcomed, I would love to know what the “51” means.
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  #6  
Old 03-11-19, 02:01
Ed Storey Ed Storey is offline
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Default Vehicle Markings

You were indeed fortunate that you had surviving markings to document and wise to accurately replicate them on your nicely restored M37CDN. The "51" means that the vehicle was assigned to an armoured regiment. The British inspired tactical markings are intended to be somewhat mystifying and were changed on occasion with those used by the post-war Canadian being especially challenging to decipher decades afterwards.

Do you have the CFR and serial number for your M37CDN?
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  #7  
Old 03-11-19, 05:29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Storey View Post
You were indeed fortunate that you had surviving markings to document and wise to accurately replicate them on your nicely restored M37CDN. The "51" means that the vehicle was assigned to an armoured regiment. The British inspired tactical markings are intended to be somewhat mystifying and were changed on occasion with those used by the post-war Canadian being especially challenging to decipher decades afterwards.

Do you have the CFR and serial number for your M37CDN?
53-41226. I don’t remember my serial number offhand. I know a little bit about the WW2 British markings, if they are similar to Canadian markings, “51” would signify the senior Armoured regt. in the formation, right? But photos don’t seem to support this, I have seen many vehicles marked with only a “5” on the RCAC flash. The hood markings were repainted a few times, and they were indeed painted, not decals. Then they were completely painted over and a Mobile Command decal replaced the old style formation sign. The only marking I couldn’t replicate was something on the driver’s side front bumper, possibly a yellow box or something similar. It had been damaged too much to figure out what it was. I am overjoyed to have been so fortunate in uncovering my truck’s 1950’s era markings! I know it’s a rare thing.
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  #8  
Old 03-11-19, 19:48
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Dan Martel Dan Martel is offline
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Originally Posted by Clint Tauber View Post
Any information about the markings would be welcomed, I would love to know what the “51” means.
Clint,

When the field forces of the Canadian Army were organized as a Division, the tactical serials allocated to the armoured regiments were as follows:

50 - The Royal Canadian Dragoons (1st Armoured Regiment)
51 - Lord Strathcona's Horse (Royal Canadians) (2nd Armoured Regiment)
52 - 1/8th Canadian Hussars

In 1958 when the field forces were reorganized as Brigade Groups, the tactical serial became a '5' which signified an armoured regiment in an infantry brigade group. All of the armoured regiments carried the same serial '5' whether in Germany or Canada.

This lasted till about 1970 when the system of tactical markings went from the British to a new and low vis system.

Cheers,
Dan.
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  #9  
Old 03-11-19, 20:45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Martel View Post
Clint,

When the field forces of the Canadian Army were organized as a Division, the tactical serials allocated to the armoured regiments were as follows:

50 - The Royal Canadian Dragoons (1st Armoured Regiment)
51 - Lord Strathcona's Horse (Royal Canadians) (2nd Armoured Regiment)
52 - 1/8th Canadian Hussars

In 1958 when the field forces were reorganized as Brigade Groups, the tactical serial became a '5' which signified an armoured regiment in an infantry brigade group. All of the armoured regiments carried the same serial '5' whether in Germany or Canada.

This lasted till about 1970 when the system of tactical markings went from the British to a new and low vis system.

Cheers,
Dan.
Thank you 🙏🏼!!! Now I can tell people my truck was with Lord Strathcona’s Horse, and yes it did also have just a “5” painted on at one point. The “51” was repainted at least twice.
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  #10  
Old 05-11-19, 21:43
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Question Tac Signs

I have one more question, why are all of my tac signs white? It had the triangle, square, diamond, and I believe a circle at different times. All were in white. Shouldn’t Lord Stathcona’s Horse be yellow?
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  #11  
Old 06-11-19, 01:35
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Originally Posted by Clint Tauber View Post
I have one more question, why are all of my tac signs white? It had the triangle, square, diamond, and I believe a circle at different times. All were in white. Shouldn’t Lord Stathcona’s Horse be yellow?
Clint,

There was a reason for different coloured squadron signs but I can't recall what they were. I don't know if the system was still in use after the War. I don't believe that individual regiments were allocated coloured squadron signs, but I'm always willing to be proven wrong.

While I'm here, I have to correct something I wrote earlier. The serial '5' in an infantry brigade group was allocated to the brigade reconnaissance squadron and not the armoured regiment. The armoured regiment was allocated serial '2'. Apologies for the error.

Cheers,
Dan.
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  #12  
Old 06-11-19, 03:02
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Clint Tauber Clint Tauber is offline
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Question

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Originally Posted by Dan Martel View Post
Clint,

There was a reason for different coloured squadron signs but I can't recall what they were. I don't know if the system was still in use after the War. I don't believe that individual regiments were allocated coloured squadron signs, but I'm always willing to be proven wrong.

While I'm here, I have to correct something I wrote earlier. The serial '5' in an infantry brigade group was allocated to the brigade reconnaissance squadron and not the armoured regiment. The armoured regiment was allocated serial '2'. Apologies for the error.

Cheers,
Dan.
The pictures I have seen of Centurions from the 50’s show “41”, taken in West Germany around 1957. Others are marked “51” or “52”. I am beginning to think nothing is written in stone!
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  #13  
Old 06-11-19, 03:17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint Tauber View Post
The pictures I have seen of Centurions from the 50’s show “41”, taken in West Germany around 1957. Others are marked “51” or “52”. I am beginning to think nothing is written in stone!
Clint,

If you have a photograph of a Canadian Centurion with the serial '41' on an arm of service rectangle, or know where I could find one, I would very much like to see it. During 1957 the RCD was the armoured regiment in Germany. It was the year the brigade tank strength was increased from a squadron to a regiment.

Cheers,
Dan.
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  #14  
Old 06-11-19, 04:00
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint Tauber View Post
The pictures I have seen of Centurions from the 50’s show “41”, taken in West Germany around 1957.
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Originally Posted by Dan Martel View Post
If you have a photograph of a Canadian Centurion with the serial '41' on an arm of service rectangle, or know where I could find one, I would very much like to see it.
The serial '41' was used by the reconnaissance regiment in an infantry division during the war. It seems that after the war when the recce regiment was superseded by an armoured regiment within the division, the same serial '41' was retained but on an RAC / RCAC arm of service rectangle.

Now you've piqued my interest!

Cheers,
Dan.
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  #15  
Old 06-11-19, 04:21
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Clint Tauber Clint Tauber is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Martel View Post
The serial '41' was used by the reconnaissance regiment in an infantry division during the war. It seems that after the war when the recce regiment was superseded by an armoured regiment within the division, the same serial '41' was retained but on an RAC / RCAC arm of service rectangle.

Now you've piqued my interest!

Cheers,
Dan.
A good one is the video on YouTube, “The Big Picture: Canadian Army Salute”, it shows a close up of the back of a Cent in Germany with “41” on the flash. “41” was also on the Shermans used in Korea if I remember right?
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  #16  
Old 06-11-19, 04:22
Bruce Parker Bruce Parker is offline
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Default 1947 markings manual

Have you guys seen the "Vehicle Markings - Canada 1947" book Rob Love has that explains a lot of this? There may have been changes in the 1950's and this manual obviously predates the M series Dodges but is quite helpful.
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  #17  
Old 06-11-19, 04:37
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Default Did the Doors Today

Here is an update.
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  #18  
Old 06-11-19, 15:06
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Here is an update.
Lovely, just lovely.
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  #19  
Old 06-11-19, 16:51
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Default M37CDN Markings

Congratulations! A first class restoration with exceptional markings.
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  #20  
Old 07-11-19, 01:24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint Tauber View Post
I have one more question, why are all of my tac signs white?
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Originally Posted by Bruce Parker View Post
Have you guys seen the "Vehicle Markings - Canada 1947" book Rob Love has that explains a lot of this?
Thanks for reminding me about that. Rob sent me a copy two years ago but I forgot I had it.

According to Appendix 'G' the following colour rules applied to the tactical signs (circle, square, diamond etc) for armoured regiments within a formation:

Senior Regt - Red
Second Regt - Yellow
Third Regt - Blue
Fourth Regt - Green
Fifth Regt - Brown
In unbrigaded units the sign will be painted in White.

Unfortunately the pamphlet does not give the serials for the units.

Cheers,
Dan.
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  #21  
Old 07-11-19, 09:13
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Originally Posted by Stuart Fedak View Post
Clint, You should take some photo of the M37 in front of the elephant cage.
I drive by it every day on my way to and from work....
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  #22  
Old 08-11-19, 15:26
Stuart Fedak Stuart Fedak is offline
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Default Thanks!

Thanks for the photo of the elephant cage. I have not seen that for a while....
Cheers! Stuart
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  #23  
Old 08-11-19, 23:16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuart Fedak View Post
Clint, You should take some photo of the M37 in front of the elephant cage.
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Originally Posted by Clint Tauber View Post
I drive by it every day on my way to and from work....
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Originally Posted by Stuart Fedak View Post
Thanks for the photo of the elephant cage. I have not seen that for a while....
For those of us who are ignorant of many things, what is the elephant cage, where is it and what is its function?

Cheers,
Dan.
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  #24  
Old 09-11-19, 01:08
Grant Bowker Grant Bowker is online now
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Default

A quick Google on CFS Massett gave:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CFS_Masset

https://www.google.com/search?q=cfs+...53949244&vet=1

https://www.101nisquadron.org/wwii-r...tation-masset/

I don't have any specific information to back this but suspect that given the Wiki statement that it is a signals intercept station, the elephant cage may be a form of antenna.

On edit, http://www.jproc.ca/rrp/masset.html describes the structure as an antenna.
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  #25  
Old 09-11-19, 01:21
Stuart Fedak Stuart Fedak is offline
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Default Elephant cages for curious minds

Elephant cage, Massett, Queen Charlotte Islands, BC (cold war location), now called Haida Gwaii is the site of a base that had a cold war antenna AN/FLR-9 that was used for directional work on the HF bands.

World Wide High Frequency Direction Finding System. High-frequency radio communication signals travel to receivers over the horizon by bouncing off the ionosphere. The shell of ionised particles which surrounds the earth refracts the signals so that they return to earth rather than disappear out into space. The clarity of the signal received depends on atmospheric and topographical conditions. HF-DF stations detect radio signals from aircraft or ships, and calculate the direction, or line of bearing, of the radio transmitter from the direction finding antenna. When the same signal is received by two or more antennae, the intersection of the lines of bearing mark the transmitter's location, using either precision single station location (SSL) capability, or in a network of DF stations using both multi-station azimuth triangulation and SSL. High Frequency Acquisition (AQ) and Direction Finding (DF) operations are performed with the Narrowband System (NBS) and Wideband Direction Finding (WBDF) Subsystem in support of normal and degraded communications modes, using both adaptive reception and super-resolution direction finding techniques.

The AN/FLR-9 circularly disposed antenna array (CDAA), popularly known as elephant cages*, have a nominal range between 150 to 5000 kilometers.

Consisting of two rings of HF antennae, the inner ring, for monitoring longer longer wavelength signals, is typically some 230 meters in diameter with some containing 40 folded dipoles. The outer ring for monitoring shorter HF wavelengths is is about 260 meters in diameter and contains some 120 sleeve monopoles. Inside each ring is a large wire screen, supported by 80 towers, to shield antennae on the other side of the array from HF signals from crossing the array, which would interfering with geolocation operations. A horizontal ground screen about 400 meters in diameter surrounds the entire site. The station's intercept operators work in an operations building in the center of the array.

There was a significant CF base on Masset, which is one of the best locations on the West coast for Canada for this technology. To the north, you can see Alaska, To the west, over the Pacific, there is nothing until you reach Japan.

The standard answer to questioning civilians, was it was an "elephant cage".... now you know....

That is why the elephant cage is the best backdrop for a Cold War M-37.
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  #26  
Old 13-11-19, 07:49
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Default Elephant cage

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Originally Posted by Stuart Fedak View Post
Clint, You should take some photo of the M37 in front of the elephant cage.
I took a side trip on my way home today.
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  #27  
Old 13-11-19, 07:51
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Default Another

I took this from the beach side.
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