1940 Chevrolet 12-cwt Ute

[Lang]

Just bought this bloke.1940 12cwt ute. Don't know if it was military but colour code says khaki. Early civilian rounded roof back.

[Mike Kelly]

Originally Posted by Lang

Just bought this bloke.1940 12cwt ute. Don't know if it was military but colour code says khaki. Early civilian rounded roof back.

If the tag reads colour 'KHAKI' then it is highly likely to be a army example.

These pics may be of some help, I think the 39 ute body is similar.


https://collections.slsa.sa.gov.au/r.../207/7/148-152

[Lang]

Thanks Mike

Get it home today and will investigate further and put up some photos.

Lang

[Lang]

Just got it home

[Mike Kelly]

Originally Posted by Lang

Just got it home

That's a beauty ! looks like somebody has done all the hard work... these are quite rare , the production numbers were very low compared to the overseas models which were produced in large numbers, GM-H were a relatively small setup.

more pics of the 1941 army models being made


https://collections.slsa.sa.gov.au/r.../207/4/557-572

1939 ute interior: and other aspects. Looks like they carried over the 1939 ute body into 1940 and fitted the 40 model front end ?

https://collections.slsa.sa.gov.au/r...+213/207/4/436

https://collections.slsa.sa.gov.au/r...+213/207/4/431

https://collections.slsa.sa.gov.au/r.../207/4/432-433

https://collections.slsa.sa.gov.au/r.../207/4/434-435

https://collections.slsa.sa.gov.au/r.../207/4/437-440

1940 Body bits .. sedan I think

https://collections.slsa.sa.gov.au/r...+213/207/4/489

https://collections.slsa.sa.gov.au/r...+213/207/4/483

https://collections.slsa.sa.gov.au/r...+213/207/4/474

https://collections.slsa.sa.gov.au/r...+213/207/4/731

https://collections.slsa.sa.gov.au/r...+213/207/4/724

[Lang]

Mike or anyone

What engine is in my ute. Definitely a 216.

I think it might be a GMH assembled unit from 1941

Engine Number R118522

Casting Number 3835127 - 066

Just for interest has anybody ever seen one of these overdrives and what make? Not a 5 minute job to fit to a torsion tube. It will save me finding an overdrive gearbox.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Wow Lang, what a find! An iconic Australian vehicle, and it's a military one to boot.

Worthy of it's own thread so I've split off your posts from Chevrolet 12cwt ute

[Lang]

Thanks Hanno

Might be a good one for Normandy next year?

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Lang

Thanks Hanno

Might be a good one for Normandy next year?

Yes, would be great to see you there!

[Lang]

They are a good looking vehicle and with the overdrive no problem easily cruising at 100kmh.

[Mike Kelly]

Originally Posted by Lang

Mike or anyone

What engine is in my ute. Definitely a 216.

I think it might be a GMH assembled unit from 1941

Engine Number R118522

Casting Number 3835127 - 066

Just for interest has anybody ever seen one of these overdrives and what make? Not a 5 minute job to fit to a torsion tube. It will save me finding an overdrive gearbox.

Attachment 132135 Attachment 132136 Attachment 132137

The engine nr. seems to be correct for a vehicle of that vintage . David Hayward's site would help you but the site seems to have disappeared. The 216 evolved over the years from 1937 until the early 1950s. There are different heads and valve lengths to consider if you are buying spares and different water pumps.

This might help http://hotrod.gregwapling.com/chev-t...dian-chev.html

FOR WALKERVILLE CHEVROLET MILITARY TRUCK ENGINE NUMBERS 1940 G.M .OF CANADA USED SEVERAL SEQUENTIAL SERIES FOR EACH PREFIX AKIN TO A CODE FOR EACH TYPE OF VEHICLE: THOSE KNOWN INCLUDE “R” [CAR] “AR” “CR” “FR” “PR” “SR” “TR” “WR” “ZR” WITH THE “R” FOR R.H.D. MOTORS AND ALSO “TRA” AND “TBA” AND “TBRA” IN 1940 FOR “TRUCK, RIGHT HAND DRIVE, ARMY”; “TRUCK, BUFFALO -ASSEMBLED, ARMY” AND “TRUCK, BUFFALO-ASSEMBLED, ARMY, RIGHT-HAND DRIVE” WHEN “B” FOR “BUFFALO” RERESENTED THE TONAWANDA, NEAR BUFFALO, NEW YORK STATE, ENGINE PLANT. THERE MAY ALSO HAVE BEEN “KR” ON ½ TON GMC TRUCKS, BUT “WR” HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH “W” WINDSOR-BUILT GMC 224 UNITS.

[Lang]

Thank you Mike

[Mike Kelly]

These 1940 12 cwt Chevy utes were shipped overseas . The LH column ( in red ) refers to vehicles returned to Australia , I think.

[Mike Kelly]

A few examples had reg. transferred from AIF plates to C plates

One was returned to Australia then transferred to the Dept, of Navy.

The early army nomenclature for these utes was: 12 cwt GS , it seems to change later on to - 12 cwt Vans GS.

[Mike Kelly]

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[Mike Kelly]

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[Lang]

Thank you Mike

[Mike Kelly]

N.T. pic.

https://territorystories.nt.gov.au/10070/746408

The overdrive unit almost looks like a backyard engineered device. Whoever made it , they were clever.

[Lang]

Mike, Mike or anyone could you please put up the headings for the columns in the records to let us lesser mortals know what the numbers stand for.

Lang

[Tony Smith]

Lang, there is no official headings as such in the register, just columns ruled by the clerk who tried to organise the information on hand.

For the pages that Mike has shown (in the AIF series register, which also shows shipping information for vehicles sent overseas), the columns are arranged as this:

1st column: Ship that vehicle was loaded on (ie Largs Bay, etc)
2nd Column: Port of Loading (ie "M" means Melbourne)
3rd Column: Destination Command ("M/E" means Middle East Command)
4th column: Date of shipping (probably date of loading or handing over for shipping, as the Clerk would not be privvy to dates of shipping movements)
5th Column: Vehicle registration class ("V" = Van)
6th Column: Sequential registration number (Complete number shown on vehicle would be :AIF V225. Vehicle class in red)
7th column: Vehicle make (CVT = Chevrolet)
8th Column: Vehicle nomenclature. Not much space in this column, so it was often abbreviated or just shortened to one word. In this case "12cwt".
9th Column: Engine number.

Other column were also used to list other types of information when available or necessary to define vehicle types. Examples include date of Manufacture or Delivery, Chassis Numbers, Tyre sizes, specialist vehicle body types, etc.

[Mike Cecil]

I think you will find that the red 'V' was used on the AIF registration plate, but when stencilled onto the bonnet sides & rear, the whole registration was in white.

The shipping date appears to vary from the date of loading to the date of assignment for overseas service. I have records of some staff cars where the date in AWM126 is several days before the date of the ships departure, and turns out to be the date the cars were assigned and departed Melbourne by road to join the ship in Sydney. Seems almost like 'any date will do'.

Mike: the red ink in the AIF register was the disposal or write off information, hence entries like 'Ceylon' for vehicles left in Ceylon during the return of 6 Div to Australia (via some months in Ceylon).

Lang: do you found a chassis number as yet?

Mike

[Lang]

Mike

From what I can see there was no number stamped on 1940 Chevrolet ute chassis it all - depended on the plates.

Some talk of plates on the floor but nothing to be seen.

I have tracked the engine casting number down from a USA Chevrolet web site. Manufactured 1940 so probably the original engine.

The seller gave me the paint code oval GMH tag but the second tag and the rectangular data plate are "somewhere in his shed" so I am visiting him next week.

When I picked it up last week he showed me the marks on his trouser leg where a King Brown hit him just before I arrived. Naturally he was not keen on up-ending the parts pile with this resident.

[Mike Kelly]

You can enlarge the GM-H factory pics to reveal great detail. Somebody left a loose bolt in the back of the 1940 ute.

Maybe Norm Darwin could help you out with a chassis nr. location ?

The date code on the second (missing) tag will be something like: A0 = Jan. 1940 B0 = Feb. 1940 and so on

I have two 1940 Chevy utes (wrecks), the light commercial model with a truck cab on the 113" w.b. Both have A0 date codes and the colour tag reads: PRT RD or Port Red

At the local car show, a chap turned up with a 1939 model in mint condition, he said he found it in a farm shed at Glenrowan. Some people have all the luck !

About 25 years ago I was offered a very original 1938 model light commercial chevy ute , a local farm vehicle but it was just too early to depict a typical wartime army vehicle so I passed on it

[Mike Kelly]

Here we have the ute collection.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnIJWw4Xi60

[Mike Cecil]

Lang,

Your engine number: R118522, a 1940 Chev utility.

AIF and AMF 'Vans, 12 Cwt, GS (Aust)', Chevrolets are almost invariably listed with 7 digits viz: 'R199xxxx' or 'R278xxxx' or 'R298xxxx' engine numbers.

Where a chassis number is listed, it is in the form of an assembly plant prefix followed by what appears to be the year, then the number: eg, M39-2815 or M40-1332, where M is Melbourne.

Hope you locate the plate from your ute: might be the key to its military identity.

Mike

[Lang]

Thanks to the two M's for your help.

Mike K I know Michael Ferguson in that video well. That is where I got my new floor shift 3 speed yesterday - I have a rebuilt? 3 speed column shift for sale.

This is a wonderful site to put in your index. http://home.znet.com/c1937/RPM.htm

As you know I am not too precious about the number of rivets and more than happy to have a "may be, may be not, tribute" vehicle - it only becomes 'fake' if claims are made against opposing evidence.

Missing evidence either way has no value in law and the "likely" optimism of the owner holds equal status with the "unlikely" claims of others.

I would hazard a guess that the great majority of restored military vehicles (particularly jeeps) would fail miserably in an academic provenance investigation. All the many gratuitously marked Military Police vehicles tell us is their owners have never been in the army (unless they were actually Military Policemen).

The best most of us can do is save a vehicle of a type clearly used by the military and use words like "presume" or "possibly" while ignoring the cries of experts who require proof while offering no opposing proof themselves.

Marking an unknown vehicle with definite originality claims is falsifying history but marked to "represent XYZ" is just fine to my mind.

The main thing is the keep them rolling.

Lang

[Mike Kelly]

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

Lang,

Your engine number: R118522, a 1940 Chev utility.

AIF and AMF 'Vans, 12 Cwt, GS (Aust)', Chevrolets are almost invariably listed with 7 digits viz: 'R199xxxx' or 'R278xxxx' or 'R298xxxx' engine numbers.

Where a chassis number is listed, it is in the form of an assembly plant prefix followed by what appears to be the year, then the number: eg, M39-2815 or M40-1332, where M is Melbourne.

Hope you locate the plate from your ute: might be the key to its military identity.

Mike

I noticed the six digit engine number as well.

The utube video claims that 6000 of the 1940 model coupe utes were assembled which seems to be a rather high number to me: the Woodville production records don't indicate that such a high number of these ute bodies were manufactured for 1940 but these bodies may also have been pressed in the Fishermen's Bend plant.

[Lang]

Yes Mike

I looked at a Chev site which I can not relocate and it showed clearly the Canadian R (right drive) engines changed to longer numbers in 1941

I have absolutely no doubt the engine in my ute is 1940 verified by both casting number and engine number from various reference sites. In all probability it is the original engine for this vehicle but who knows?

Have a look at this

https://www.uniquecarsandparts.com.a...tion_1940_1943

This is from Woodville, were there any other body construction sites or did they all use Woodville bodies? Interesting the large number of war-irrelevant makes that they kept punching out through 1941.

Interesting thing is 2,510 what I presume is the civilian style Coupe Ute built to 1943 but only 98 AMF Coupe Ute. I have not got the figures for 44 and 45 but even if civilian type production ceased it would appear there were vastly more civilian style than military.

[Mike Cecil]

Lang,

If the engine number lengthened in 1941, how come the vehicles listed in AMW126 were sent overseas with the 1st AIF contingent in early 1940 with seven digit engine numbers? Example, AIF-V-33 to AIF-V-62, all with R199xxxx numbers. And I suspect these are 1939 model GS utilities, too, as the same engine number sequence listed in the AMF registrations have 'M-39-" chassis numbers listed.

Something doesn't add up between these sources. Very puzzling.

Mike

[Lang]

Mike

I too noticed 1939 long numbers.

Production lines did not start and finish on the first of January. Entire shiploads of engines from the previous year would take many months to reach port and work their way through storage and production into a finished motor vehicle. Almost the entire vehicle up until February or March might be constructed from materials born in the previous year. I think they should be talking about "Model Year" not "Production Year". Look at the situation now where manufacturers start advertising the new 2024 model in July or August of 2023!

I think the GM (and probably Ford and Chrysler) system was so convoluted that nobody can say truly what numbers were what.

1. Canadian built engines for multi-international use eg UK.
2. Canadian built engines for specifically Australian use.
3. Canadian engines with no numbers as replacements or local foreign numbering. (All replacement engines had no numbers in Australia until 60's eg GEM and REPCO Holden engines stamped by the mechanic to match existing paperwork)
4, US built engines supplied to gap fill Canadian shipments or vice-versa.
5. Possibly thousands of engines in various long and short term storage being picked by the fork-lift drivers months out of sequence, Many people say engine numbers are unreliable and the date should be the body/chassis line production number stamped during assembly.
plus numerous other combinations.

Lang