Commer Q2: Truck, 15-cwt, 4x2, Van

[Hanno Spoelstra]

I'm trying to gather some more information on the Commer Q2 15-cwt as used by the RAF during WW2. Here's what I found in Vanderveen's books (text) and the internet (pictures):

6-cyl. 66-bhp engine (own 20.9 hp 3180-cc sv) driving rear wheels via 4-speed gearbox. Hydraulic brakes. Leaf-spring suspension. Tyre size 10.50-16. Wheelbase 120 in.
Overall dimensions 189x78x90 in. Weight 5375 lb.
Composite construction integral bodywork by Mulliners of Birmingham for RAF, production starting July 1940. Later production had 80-hp 4-litre engine. Several other body styles.

Who has handbooks, more historic / technical background, photos?

Thanks!
Hanno

309_Dunino4.jpg

commer q2 17dj.jpg

Originally Posted by Bill Murray

I imagine this is a Commer Q2 and should be ex RAF according to Bart's books.
In this case a beute photographed in Russia according to the ebay seller. From a year or so ago.
beutecommer2.jpg

[cliff]

Hanno I have these two photos of Commer 'Vans'. Not sure where I got these from and also not sure if they are the same model as those you pictured.

Commer general-purpose loose tilt vans 1940.jpg Front view of Commer Explosives Vans 1940.jpg

[Mike Kelly]

Hanno
here is one in the Czech republic

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Cliff, Mike,

Thanks for the input!

Could it be the Czech survivor is the one shown in HMVF Forum > Commer Q2 30cwt GS 1939? That thread also shows a picture of a survivor in the UK.

- Hanno

[cliff]

just down the road from my place in Gympie about 12 months ago. Is this one of the same type?

[S LATHERON]

I believe that theres a similar truck in Bishop Auckland County Durham UK.

Noth East Military Vehicle club member Possibly MVT as well

Regards stephen

[Mike Kelly]

Originally Posted by cliff

just down the road from my place in Gympie about 12 months ago. Is this one of the same type?

yes Cliff,

They were marketed here post ww2 and sold through Rootes dealers as a civilian truck . Rather rare as I've never seen one myself, but I've seen pics of them, mostly small trucks with ute type bodies . I think they ran the contemporary Humber 6 side valve motor but I could be wrong I have an article on a restored example here, the owner chose to install a later OHV 4 cyl. motor.

Mike

[Radek]

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly

Hanno
here is one in the Czech republic

Here is the same Commer after the renovation of the forum member Higgins

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Radek

Here is the same Commer after the renovation of the forum member Higgins

Here's a more recent picture of Tomas Higgins' Q2 30-cwt:

155202441_3656108937792076_6512175779183909776_o.jpg

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Commer Q2 Tractor with a Hawker Tempest on a Queen Mary trailer during the Victory parade in London, 8th june 1946.

This is a Militarised Superpoise, officially known as 'Tractor, 4x2, Light, 10'0" WB, Type Q2', also referred to (by RAF) as '4-ton tractor'. Produced in 1945, chiefly for towing 'Queen Mary' aircraft-transporter semi-trailers.

161578994_10222347221543017_4133486199935280061_o.jpg


There is only one known survivor of this type of Tractor. It was last seen for sale in the Netherlands ca. 2016 and has since disappeared off the radar.

97653220_1137357823268091_4324942469759238144_o.jpg 37375880_666695327001012_1123983599809331200_o.jpg

[Hanno Spoelstra]

http://www.military-vehicle-photos.c...number2208.asp

The Battered Wagon

This photograph was taken in 1942 by my late father, Ron Hunnisett in North Africa and shows what I'm reliably informed is a Commer Q2 15cwt truck as used by the RAF. This would make sense as my Dad was in the RAF Regiment

Contributor: Steve Hunnisett

4350314031_5864777700_z.jpg

[Hanno Spoelstra]

The webpage Rootes Wartime Vehicle Production has a complete breakdown of all vehicles built by the Rootes group reveals between the outbreak of War to the end of August 1943 6,559 Q2's were delivered. Never realised so many were produced!

[malcolm erik bogaert]

yes can confirm one of these in north-east..belonging to long time North east Military vehicle Club member was recently used in the production of the TV film JOE MADDISONS WAR along with Denny Thompsons 3.7 and AEC Matador...cheers malcolm in a very wet north-northumberland

[Alex van de Wetering]

Alex,

Would be interesting to see that drawing.

hmm,

I see I made a promise a year ago; will have a look.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Alex van de Wetering

I see I made a promise a year ago; will have a look.

Please do.

Thanks in advance!

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

The webpage Rootes Wartime Vehicle Production has a complete breakdown of all vehicles built by the Rootes group reveals between the outbreak of War to the end of August 1943 6,559 Q2's were delivered. Never realised so many were produced!

With all the variations of the Q2 - Load Carrier; Utilities; 8' and 10' w.b. Tractors; Fixed side lorry, Chassis (and Cab) - I redid the calculations for the "Commer 15-cwt Load Carrier" to get a total of 1,755 delivered. But the last entry states a cumulative delivery total of 634. I checked this with Bill Kreiner, and he said:

"I know some things in that document are confusing. We (staff member at CTM and I) just copied everything verbatim from that book. The cumulative figure of 634 (which is supposed to also include the period September 1939 through November 1942 of the lost first volume) is clearly wrong. I think a number may have been left off the beginning of it, or it couldn't be read clearly when we researched it, since this was all handwritten. When working with such handwritten documents, when I can't read something, I use an asterisk and make a footnote. So either this portion was done by CTM staff or whoever compiled the original back in the 1940s made the 634 blunder. I'd go with the 1,755 total for the period December 1942 through August 1944. Unfortunately we don't know the 1939-1942 total.”

Commer-Karrier production _01-12-43_29-02-44.jpg

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Les Freathy wrote on FB:

Another image Hanno from the RAF data listings, sorry about the line through the middle apparently when these and others were surplussed it was customery to put the line through the illustrations i cant see why that had to be done surely just a explanation written the page would have been sufficient.

945EC3E2-8740-4C92-8B90-8A4FB84A2361.jpg

[Rod Salter]

no line.jpg

Gave it a cut and polish

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Rod Salter

Gave it a cut and polish

Thanks Rod!

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Several dozen RAF Commer Q2 Vans lined up for an auction shortly after WW2. Note the lack of tilts.

Picture from Wheels & Tracks magazine no.5.

Commer Q2 RAF sale - detail.jpg Commer Q2 RAF sale.jpg

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Although not a 15-cwt truck, it is a Q2 so I thought it appropriate to point out this 30-cwt Commer for sale in the UK:

1939 30cwt Commer Q2 GS
73861.jpg
Rare British truck, I only know of this one in the UK and another in the Czech Republic which are in preservation today. It was restored several years ago. The vehicle has been stored for several years therefore the paintwork is not perfect, it has got some light surface rust in places. No rot or rust pitting, all bodywork is solid. Recently fitted new battery and plugs, engine runs very well. Vehicle is located 10 Miles South of Durham City, England. Looking for £9,000 for this great, rare British truck.
07980 346221
Dave Anderson

[Larry Hayward]

Were they used exclusively by the RAF or did the Army get any as suggested by the markings on the example for sale in the UK?

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Although not a 15-cwt truck, it is a Q2 so I thought it appropriate to point out this 30-cwt Commer for sale in the UK:

Mr. Anderson's Commer Q2 30-cwt truck was sold to a Mr. Steve Williams:

50717541_309193893038685_7860229642798497792_n.jpg

Also found a picture of this truck dating back to 1994:

6715494161_d1e1bbec94_o(scan de photo 1994).jpg

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Some spare parts lists in the IWM cataloque of items:

15 cwt. (6 cylinder) 'Superpoise' ... : spare parts list

Object description: Includes 'list of proprietary equipment and makers' spare parts for Commer 15 cwt. (Superpoise)' 1941

Object details
Category: Books
Related period:
Second World War (content)
Creator: COMMER CARS (Author)
CHILWELL CATALOGUE NO. 4663-11-1 (Author)
Commer Cars (Publisher)
Production date: 1942
Place made: Luton
Dimensions: whole: Dimensions: 22cm., Pagination: 94p.: ill., figs.
Catalogue number: LBY 78 / 3119

Spare parts list for 15 cwt. (6 cylinder) Superpoise vehicles type Q2

Object description: Pbk.
Object description: Produced for the Air Ministry

Object details
Category: Books
Related period: Second World War (content)
Creator: AIR MINISTRY (Author)
COMMER CARS (Author)
AIR PUBLICATION 1736 (Author)
CHILWELL CATALOGUE NO. 5259-26-1 (Author)
CHILWELL PUBLICATION NO. 237E (Author)
Commer Cars (Publisher)
Production date: 1943
Place made: Luton
Dimensions: whole: Dimensions: 28cm., Pagination: 97p.: ill., figs.
Catalogue number: LBY 78 / 3255

Plus an instruction book for the Q2 Tractor with 10' WB, this is the Superpoise cabbed-one:

Instruction book for tractor 4x2 light 10.0 W.B. type 'Q2'

Object description: Pbk.
Object description: Produced for the Air Ministry
Object description: Includes folding wiring diagram in sleeve attached to rear cover

Object details
Category: Books
Related period: Second World War (content)
Creator: AIR MINISTRY (Author)
COMMER CARS (Author)
AIR PUBLICATION 1735B (Author)
Commer Cars (Publisher)
Production date: 1945
Place made: Luton
Dimensions: whole: Dimensions: 22cm., Pagination: 124p., 3 fold. leaves of plates: ill., figs.
Catalogue number: LBY 80193

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Some spare parts lists in the IWM cataloque of items:

Spare parts list for 15 cwt. (6 cylinder) Superpoise vehicles type Q2
Object description: Pbk.
Object description: Produced for the Air Ministry
Object details
Category: Books
Related period: Second World War (content)
Creator: AIR MINISTRY (Author)
COMMER CARS (Author)
AIR PUBLICATION 1736 (Author)
CHILWELL CATALOGUE NO. 5259-26-1 (Author)
CHILWELL PUBLICATION NO. 237E (Author)
Commer Cars (Publisher)
Production date: 1943
Place made: Luton
Dimensions: whole: Dimensions: 28cm., Pagination: 97p.: ill., figs.
Catalogue number: LBY 78 / 3255

Eric Delcomenne had a copy of this spare parts list, he was so kind to sell it to me. My copy is "Publication NO. 237D" dated "[5/42]"

127285181_419093386120121_2637805787026926962_n.jpg

[Hanno Spoelstra]

The Commer Q2 "RVT 105" is mentioned here: http://ww2talk.com/index.php?threads...r-force.23810/

There were also Light 100 units which could operate as Gee, Gee H or Oboe transmitters but used smaller vehicles and sets, were much more mobile but had shorter range. The vehicles seem to have been Commer Q2 RVT 105, a 15cwt with house type body. A permanent roof mounted aerial mast could be folded forward for stowage when travelling. When folded down it was protected by a wooden framework. When operating the aerial could be rotated for direction finding or for transmitting beams in an accurate direction. The vehicle was positioned so that it was facing True North and stakes were driven into the ground in a 100 foot radius circle to mark compass points.

The RVT 105 could also be used for BABS on airfields. These Blind Approach Beacon Systems were accurate for direction but could not give an accurate height.

So it seems 100 of these Commer Type 105 Radio Vehicles were built.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Mr. Anderson's Commer Q2 30-cwt truck was sold to a Mr. Steve Williams:

The Anderson 30-cwt Q2 was recently sold on to Kevin:

IMG_20200816_172218.jpg.b0facc35d1bacf509e1178ee21cd4372_resized.jpg

[KevinHann]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

The Anderson 30-cwt Q2 was recently sold on to Kevin:

Attachment 116348

Just a Hello from me, I have just joined the forum and this is my Commer. She is proving to be a difficult one at the moment, the restoration is well underway but getting her to start and run are troublesome.

We will keep at it though, we spent an awful lot if time finding a wartime Commer, we have other Rootes vehicles too, but our aim is to preserve rare Commers and Hillmans of this period.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by KevinHann

Just a Hello from me, I have just joined the forum and this is my Commer. She is proving to be a difficult one at the moment, the restoration is well underway but getting her to start and run are troublesome.

We will keep at it though, we spent an awful lot if time finding a wartime Commer, we have other Rootes vehicles too, but our aim is to preserve rare Commers and Hillmans of this period.

Hello Kevin, welcome on here.

Here’s another photo of your truck taken by Dave Boxall at the Southsea 50th anniversary D-Day show at the end of May 1994.

BCE68944-3960-4039-A417-C3EA73767874.jpeg

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by KevinHann

Just a Hello from me, I have just joined the forum and this is my Commer. She is proving to be a difficult one at the moment, the restoration is well underway but getting her to start and run are troublesome.

We will keep at it though, we spent an awful lot if time finding a wartime Commer, we have other Rootes vehicles too, but our aim is to preserve rare Commers and Hillmans of this period.

Kevin's restoration is progressing nicely: https://hmvf.co.uk/topic/42848-1942-...t-restoration/

Finally some better weather, had to move our shed around so the Commer was moved out into the yard.
All the welding is now finished on the cab, plenty of rot has been cut out, fabricated and welded. Onwards with filling and rubbing down.
51920228898_4157318381_k.jpg

Photo source: https://www.flickr.com/photos/521975...h/51920228898/