Family Appreciation Days – 31 May and 1 June 2014 - Ottawa

[maple_leaf_eh]

One for the calendars if Ottawa HMV owners might be interested. Absolutely no notice of anything like an invitation to participate.

Save the date! 4th annual Defence Community Family Appreciation Days – 31 May and 1 June 2014

The Commandant of CFSU(O) is pleased to announce that the National Capital Region's fourth annual Defence Community Family Appreciation Days will take place the weekend of 31 May and 1 June 2014 at the Uplands site.

Mark your calendars now for this exciting event!

Don’t miss this great family activity open to all military personnel, civilian employees of the Department of National Defence and Non-Public Funds, their families, and their friends! Starting at 1000 hrs on Saturday 31 May, there will be a variety of fun activities, military displays, demonstrations, kiosks and draws for fabulous prizes. Throughout the day there will be top-notch entertainment for the whole family and, a special musical and comedy feast on Saturday evening will be sure to put you in a party mood! Sunday 1 June from 1000 hrs to 1600 hrs we do it all over again – more prizes, more activities – making this THE weekend to remember in the NCR!

NEW THIS YEAR – ID required to enter the Family Appreciation Days site: To ensure a safe and secure event, in order to access the site, all attendees will require valid military / DND identification, or will be required to be accompanied by someone who has the proper ID.

The list of acceptable ID includes (but is not limited to):

· CF Identification Card (NDI 10, 75);

· Civilian identification card (NDI 21);

· Veterans / Former Member Identification Card (NDI 75 or CAF 75);

· Military Family ID (MFID) card; or

· The new CFOne card, which is available to CAF members, civilian DND and NPF employees, and dependents. Visit www.cf1fc.ca today to request a card and to find out more about the CFOne program.

Check the following website often for information and updates in the months to come!

www.pspottawa.ca/familydays

[servicepub (RIP)]

My understanding was that DND wanted liability insurance and/or waivers that were extreme so many MilVeh didn't show up last year. Does anyone know if this is still the case?
C

[Scott Bentley]

Originally Posted by servicepub

My understanding was that DND wanted liability insurance and/or waivers that were extreme so many MilVeh didn't show up last year. Does anyone know if this is still the case?
C

I can't speak for this event specifically, but as the OIC of an Armoury here in the NCR I can confirm that provision of services fees, security, liability, and insurance have all been big topics lately.

I get approached frequently by groups wanting to host events at the armoury. When I inform them of all the leg work they need to do, plus the insurance, most will look elsewhere.

Gone are the days of raffling off tickets at a Unit Family Day to have your significant other drive a Badger AEV over an old Honda

[Robin Craig]

I do know that this clashes with and event that is much more worthwhile attending, that is the event at the Ontario Regiment / Ferret club.

There is a significant amount of armour attending that has not been seen before and with some very cool history and people connected to those vehicles from their in service time.

That is where I am going and putting my support.

R

[Eric B]

Hello Clive

Yes this is the event, which private MV owners were asked to assist DND by taking our vehicles as part of a display.

The individual vehicle owners were required to have liabilty insurance etc. (on top of regular auto insurance). Plus waivers needed to be signed. This did not make sense since we were invited to attend.

It makes sense to have that sort of insurance and waiver at a DND location if we were renting the facility for our own event. DND are not alone in asking this as many other property/ hall rental locations ask this.

It would also make sense if we were attending the DND event on behalf of a museum or club.

For example the Club or Museums insurance would cover members if they attended on behalf of the club/museum at an approved event, but it would not cover non members.

In any event this was not the case and spending money for extra insurance to attend an event we were asked to assist with just did not make sense.

The waiver was a little extreme, i beleive it would have held the individual vehicle owner liable if somebody happened to hurt themself while looking at the vehicle.

As Robin states there already is a worthwhile event, which MV owners are invited to attend, and it has special event insurance coverage.

Thanks

Eric

[Scott Bentley]

Originally Posted by Eric B

Hello Clive

Yes this is the event, which private MV owners were asked to assist DND by taking our vehicles as part of a display.

The individual vehicle owners were required to have liabilty insurance etc. (on top of regular auto insurance). Plus waivers needed to be signed. This did not make sense since we were invited to attend.

It makes sense to have that sort of insurance and waiver at a DND location if we were renting the facility for our own event. DND are not alone in asking this as many other property/ hall rental locations ask this.

It would also make sense if we were attending the DND event on behalf of a museum or club.

For example the Club or Museums insurance would cover members if they attended on behalf of the club/museum at an approved event, but it would not cover non members.

In any event this was not the case and spending money for extra insurance to attend an event we were asked to assist with just did not make sense.

The waiver was a little extreme, i beleive it would have held the individual vehicle owner liable if somebody happened to hurt themself while looking at the vehicle.

As Robin states there already is a worthwhile event, which MV owners are invited to attend, and it has special event insurance coverage.

Thanks

Eric

Just out of curiosity, who did the request for OMVA attendance come from?

[maple_leaf_eh]

@Scott - don't confuse previous years and the story about insurance and waivers, and the posting I made for later this year.

[Scott Bentley]

Originally Posted by maple_leaf_eh

@Scott - don't confuse previous years and the story about insurance and waivers, and the posting I made for later this year.

Terry, i'm curious about the previous year.

I was wondering if the previous invite was on the "Buds Net" or if it was an official request to attend, as some of those requirements don't make sense.

Either way, I think folks are getting the main purpose of these events cocked up. One is a pure MV event, the other is an appreciation event for families of CAF members. If you want to see HMV's, go to Oshawa. If you're a serving or retired CAF member and want to get your son or daughters face painted and have a hotdog, go to the CFSU(O) Family Day.

[Eric B]

Hello Stuart (and all).

Thanks for posting the details. I had deleted my e-mail with the details a while back.

I did attend the NDMC in 2012 with my GPW as did an 8cwt from the Swords and Ploughshares Museum. There were at least three DND vehicles present as well.
There were no wavers to sign, just vehicle insurance required. We were treated well and were provided a late lunch. That was unfortunate about the Iltis.

As most involved in the MV world we try and support as many events as possible. A DND Family Appreciation Day, Support Our Troops event, Veterans Week etc are all worthwhile causes. In my last posting i didn't mean to sound like the DND Family Appreciation Day was not worthwhile attending and do apologize if that was how it came across.

Those asked to attend the Family Day in the past were well aware that this was not an MV event.

If somebody with contacts with any of this years organizers would be kind enough to research more about what is required for private MV’s to participate in this year’s event, and then posting it. That would be appreciated as I know not everybody would be travelling to the Oshawa area that weekend.

Thanks

Eric

[chris vickery]

Sounds like taking a girl on a date and asking her to split the bill on the bill when dinner's over...
or invite your friends over for a dinner party and ask them to bring their own steak.

[Scott Bentley]

Gents,

The problem with events such as these is the funding and what type of funds can be spent on what. In the case of having private MV's attend an event; unless a contract is in place "hiring" the MV's for the event, public funds cannot be used to pay for fuel and oil. The simple act of providing a lunch is deemed as "hospitality" and requires permission from higher HQ's. This is all dictated by the Treasury Board, not the Canadian Armed Forces. With everything going on these days, you can imagine the appetite for bending these rules.

The only exception to the above is when the event is funded with non-public funds, ie Unit Funds and so forth. The problem with non-public funding is that it is extremely limited, especially for events that are held by non-Regimental organizations like CFSU(O) for example. They are limited to Canex grants and so on. Since you cannot use public funds to pay for anything at an event attended by civilians, it becomes a case of determining whether the MV owner gets his gas tank filled, there are free hot dogs, or the face painter gets paid.

The whole issue with waivers and insurance is a two way street. (Keep in mind, I'm not a lawyer or JAG, so don't run with this as gospel) The CAF doesn't want you getting hurt on their property, and doesn't want anyone else getting hurt (especially another civilian) by your privately owned vehicle on their property. If the event is an open one (ie a Family Day) the cause for concern and liability is even more concerning, which is why they want the MV owner or club to have sufficient insurance. If the owner or club is not contracted or some kind of MOU is in place, it becomes difficult to enforce proof of insurance or determining if rides or hands on the vehicles will be allowed. That being said, financial legalities aside, all of this is subject to a risk assessment and decision by the Commander (not the OPI). This is why I asked about the "Buds Net".

Unfortunately, this is also why it is theoretically easier for DND to line haul MVs from the museum in Petawawa for an event in Ottawa rather than get the local MV club to come out. They can use public funds, and don't need to collect waivers, or get proof of insurance.

I guess the point to all of this is that what was common place in the past may not be the same in the future, especially with the legal liability and financial accountability (into minutia) culture we live in.

I will bent my Brigade's JAG next time I see him for the specifics and update this post.

[chris vickery]

Typical government bureaucracy at work once again.
Spend taxpayers money at will instead of getting freebees from the same.
I can imagine the costs of transporting to and from museums plus the added costs of personnel, per diems and accommodations rather than the basically free cost of utilizing civilian volunteers and their vehicles...
In reality, most MV guys seldom ask for much, often fetting the bill out of pocket themselves for the pure enjoyment of proudly displaying their vehicle.
It makes sense to me more and more why many MV guys stick to themselves or stay below the radar rather than interact with formal groups or government institutions.
Furthermore, the boys down south (USA) seems to be able to handle these situations in a whole different manner to the benefit of the Public (taxpayer) at large and encourage participation from the Civilian populace without a lot of political nonsense and insurance obligations. Perhaps their way is a whole lot different than the way it is here. Sad.

[Scott Bentley]

Stuart, I'll leave you with this thought as my goal was not annoy people but rather to educate on how the system works, for good, bad or otherwise.

Although it seems expensive to haul kit around, staffs still cost money, and MOUs, contracts etc still require staffs, legal advisors and all sorts of churn to make things happen.

Having had to plan events similar in scope and scale to this one, sometimes there is only so much one can do, leaving you with enough time and resources to pluck the "low hanging fruit".

As you can see though, if the MV group is organized, a lot of this pain can be alleviated.