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  #1  
Old 29-03-20, 17:36
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
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Question Q: Royal Canadian Dragoons markings?

Bert van de Maat sent me these two photos Royal Canadian Dragoons vehicles. He would like to know what the markings are on the front and the side of the Dingos and Lynx. He thinks they are yellow with black lettering, is this correct? What do they denote?

If you can help, please post a response here.

Thanks in advance!

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  #2  
Old 29-03-20, 18:00
James P James P is offline
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I would say red with black infill, but that is just a guess on my part.
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  #3  
Old 29-03-20, 18:21
Bruce Parker Bruce Parker is offline
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They are squadron markings, D in this instance with the individual vehicle number inside. The colour of the outline (a 'D' on its side. 'A' was a triangle, 'B' a square, 'C' a circle and HQ a diamond) should be white as the RCD were 'unaligned' within a brigade. If in a brigade AFV squadron outlines were red, blue and yellow depending on their precedence within the brigade.

Not sure about the background colour but black makes sense.

This from memory...
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  #4  
Old 29-03-20, 18:58
Harry Moon Harry Moon is offline
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Default Lynx on the left picture

Dingoes in the right picture?
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  #5  
Old 29-03-20, 20:14
James P James P is offline
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Just to add to Bruces note is the "Lazy D" as it is called can be seen with spine up or down (supported by wartime pictures and I do believe the D outline is red not white.
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  #6  
Old 29-03-20, 21:30
Bruce Parker Bruce Parker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James P View Post
Just to add to Bruces note is the "Lazy D" as it is called can be seen with spine up or down (supported by wartime pictures and I do believe the D outline is red not white.
Why do you think red? Red is (if I recall correctly...I can check) for the first armoured regiment in a brigade, and armoured recce units outside of a brigade 'should' be white, by the book. I have evidence the RCD used pale blue in 1943 but have no idea why. Dulling down the bright white doesn't seem right given all the other colourful markings but is a possibility.
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  #7  
Old 29-03-20, 22:28
Ed Storey Ed Storey is offline
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Default Interpretation of Colours From Black and White Photos

Modellers and vehicle enthusiasts have been wresting with this problem for decades. Here is a short AFV News article from early 1983.

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  #8  
Old 30-03-20, 00:02
James P James P is offline
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Bruce, I no longer have my copy of the RCD hand book to confirm what colour was painted for the outline of the Lazy D (D=4th squadron, RCD) with black infill. Why I place my bet on the outline NOT being white is the amount of white, and known white, on either side of the D. it could be any other flavour (colour) but I am just not seeing it being white. Paint on old vehicles has to be one of the biggest bun fight producers possible in this hobby. Relying on a single source information or someones restoration art work of markings is a huge rabbit hole to fall down. And modal builders, holy hell, when I get jacked up by a modal builder for one of my vehicles not being this or that I now invite them to bring their wartime 1/1 scale out and lets compare. I am not a expert and as my restoration mentor David C in MI says.............The more I learn the less I know. I am here to learn.
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  #9  
Old 30-03-20, 01:06
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Default Markings

Unbrigaded units like the RCD and Manitoba Dragoons carried white outline squadron markings.
Don
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  #10  
Old 30-03-20, 01:17
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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Hanno.

Not to hijack this thread, but do you happen to know where the second photo was taken? There is something about this photo I find very intriguing. I think it is the look of the location being a very well maintained, sleepy looking residential area with a large accumulation of what might be a single Regimentís vehicles.

Could this have been a Billet Location, or a temporary HQ site for the Regiment perhaps?

David
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  #11  
Old 30-03-20, 01:21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Dingwall View Post
Unbrigaded units like the RCD and Manitoba Dragoons carried white outline squadron markings.
Don
Great, then show me a colour pic from back in the day as that picture of a D on the vehicle is hardly white compared to known whites.
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  #12  
Old 30-03-20, 03:09
Bruce Parker Bruce Parker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James P View Post
Great, then show me a colour pic from back in the day as that picture of a D on the vehicle is hardly white compared to known whites.
Not saying it is white, but that it's supposed to be. Peter Duggan chose white for his D squadron sign though it's 4PLDG in the 1st Division. I agree it looks darker than the white on the unit and corps signs but that could be dirt, different application times...or another colour. The background sure looks darker than the cam outside of the D. Pic one is a Lynx followed by a Humber IV and not a Daimler SC.
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  #13  
Old 30-03-20, 18:07
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So we know the Formation sign colours in the picture. The top and bottom bar are red. The squadron symbol is very different in shade compared to the known red. Perhaps its yellow? That seemed to have been a common colour with tactical markings on carriers.
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  #14  
Old 30-03-20, 18:26
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I will just put this here and let others debate the colours seen, or not seen, in a B&W pic.

http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...d.php?p=258024
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  #15  
Old 31-03-20, 16:57
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Thanks to all for the input! I hope Bert van de Maat is reading this so he can draw up his conclusions.
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  #16  
Old 31-03-20, 17:00
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Dunlop View Post
Not to hijack this thread, but do you happen to know where the second photo was taken? There is something about this photo I find very intriguing. I think it is the look of the location being a very well maintained, sleepy looking residential area with a large accumulation of what might be a single Regimentís vehicles.

Could this have been a Billet Location, or a temporary HQ site for the Regiment perhaps?
David, Bert may be able to answer this question.

To me it looks like a upmarket residential area, with vehicles parked up on the road for an overnight stay possibly.

Also see this post, I think it could be the same location?

http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...340#post265340

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  #17  
Old 31-03-20, 20:17
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Was that same street not in After the Battle over the years ?
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  #18  
Old 01-04-20, 18:58
Jack Geratic Jack Geratic is offline
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There was a similar thread posted concerning the Manitoba Dragoons, as they too had painted (not white) outlines and numbers for their tactical markings. Sometimes even the WD number appeared dark in some photos. Perhaps as a low viz measure??

Instead of posting same info, here is the link:
http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...ad.php?t=29805

regards,
Jack
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  #19  
Old 01-04-20, 19:10
Bruce Parker Bruce Parker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Geratic View Post
There was a similar thread posted concerning the Manitoba Dragoons, as they too had painted (not white) outlines and numbers for their tactical markings. Sometimes even the WD number appeared dark in some photos. Perhaps as a low viz measure??

Instead of posting same info, here is the link:
http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...ad.php?t=29805

regards,
Jack
That's three wartime paintings that show RCD Fox with pale blue squadron markings (A, C and HQ). The top one where they are loading 50 and 30 cal. belts even hints at a red 1st Corp flash on the left front fender. Why did the artist feel it necessary to show that? Note the red 47 on the white over blue flash. It represents a Signal Corps (RCCS) unit attached to a regiment. The practice was to use the formation number of the unit the sigs were attached to but keep the white over blue signals arm of service colours.

Hijacking a little bit, one of Hughes' paintings shows various arrays of playing cards painted on the turret sides. What the heck is that all about???
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  #20  
Old 01-04-20, 20:36
Jack Geratic Jack Geratic is offline
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Taking another closer look at the initial photo, and importing it to photo software, eyedropper tool shows the two areas almost similar in grey tone:

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Yellow was suggested for tactical marking colour, but then it doesn't match the maple leaf - unless the leaf was not painted yet and left white, or is (metallic) gold and giving off a sheen to make it appear light?

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It does seem a lighter than usual blue was used on both the AoS and tac mark. The example I've made is suppose to be cobalt blue, though it's not on the 1944 British Standards Chart:

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regards,
Jack
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  #21  
Old 02-04-20, 16:58
Jack Geratic Jack Geratic is offline
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Another painting by E.J. Hughes:

https://www.warmuseum.ca/collections...ia_irn=5722955

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regards,
Jack
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  #22  
Old 02-04-20, 18:07
Bruce Parker Bruce Parker is offline
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And one that was an inspiration for me. Here's a Fox in the same RCD squadron some 70 years later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Geratic View Post
Another painting by E.J. Hughes:

https://www.warmuseum.ca/collections...ia_irn=5722955

Attachment 112974


regards,
Jack
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  #23  
Old 06-04-20, 19:00
Jack Geratic Jack Geratic is offline
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Another example of dark tactical marking. The book I have has it captioned as RCD Staghound Leeuwarden 15 April 1945:

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regards,
Jack
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