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  #1  
Old 11-08-09, 12:55
Lionelgee's Avatar
Lionelgee Lionelgee is offline
Lionel G. Evans
 
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Default Maple Leaf When it is not

Hello All,

While visiting friend I took a detour to a place an hour away which was advertising the sale of a Maple Leaf Chevrolet 1940 truck. When I got there the bonnet said “Maple Leaf” and had the symbol. However, when I lifted the bonnet up and looked at the firewall identification plates, the words “Holden made in Australia.” No “General Motors Canada” appeared anywhere.

Thanks to this forum I was able to detect a wolf in sheep’s clothing. Someone must have swapped the bonnet from a Maple Leaf and replaced an older Holden Australian bonnet. The good thing is this truck had the spare tire holder and a tow bar which my truck was missing. I also learnt that Australian Army trucks had the back of the differential centre painted white for safety. Something I did not know.

I also re-visited where I got my truck from and found an authentic key for my truck’s ignition and a piece of the hood ornament that was broken off from my truck. Another truck had the exact piece of the ornament that I could replace my smashed part with. There was nothing left of the “new” part and it was definitely not from mine. Also found replacements for my missing windscreen wiper motors and wiper arms. On another truck I found the covers that go on top of the wiper motor units. It turns out my horn was not original and must have been replaced by a totally different shaped one years ago. Finally a missing exterior door handle was on a donor truck too.

So despite the Maple Leaf being a Holden it was a Happy day scrounging. The Maple Leaf bonnet still had the Army numbers visible so I might buy the bonnet and for the labels and the number and transfer it onto my truck as at least it is an authentic Army number. Something to ponder anyway and thanks for the information so I can distinguish between genuine and the misleading.

Kind Regards
Lionel
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  #2  
Old 11-08-09, 13:20
Alex Blair (RIP) Alex Blair (RIP) is offline
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Default White

Good find..
you say...
also learnt that Australian Army trucks had the back of the differential centre painted white for safety. Something I did not know.



Safety yes,but the main reason was for one driver to follow the other in convoy at night during a black out.The white axle covers were fairly standard during WW 2..
Sometimes all that they could see was the white splotch in front of them..
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  #3  
Old 12-08-09, 00:14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lionelgee View Post
Hello All,
the bonnet said “Maple Leaf” and had the symbol. However, when I lifted the bonnet up and looked at the firewall identification plates, the words “Holden made in Australia.” No “General Motors Canada” appeared anywhere.

Thanks to this forum I was able to detect a wolf in sheep’s clothing. Someone must have swapped the bonnet from a Maple Leaf and replaced an older Holden Australian bonnet.
Kind Regards
Lionel
It could have been a Holden Assembled Maple Leaf Chevrolet dispite the plates on the firewall as there are other differences as well between the models even though at first glance they are the same. Holden assembled and built cabs for both so it would not be unusual to see Holden data plates on a genuine Maple Leaf Chevrolet.

The white painted rear axle centre also normally had a small light that shone on it at night that could only be seen by the truck following. These were normally part of the blackout light setup in the electrical system.
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Cliff Hutchings
aka MrRoo S.I.R.

"and on the 8th day he made trucks so that man, made on the 7th day, had shelter when woman threw him out for the night"
MrRoo says "TRUCKS ROOLE"

Last edited by cliff; 12-08-09 at 00:21.
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  #4  
Old 12-08-09, 13:17
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Hello Alex and Cliff,
Thank you for the additional information about the differential centre. Cliff you have raised a bit of confusion as in an earlier thread …”What Makes a Maple Leaf a Maple Leaf?” July 8th I got a response back …. My opinion is that if the body plate does not say 'Maple Leaf' and it has not got the 'Maple Leaf' name badges either side of the bonnet it is not a 'Maple Leaf' Chevrolet.
If the “body plate” referred to is what I call an identification plate which was located on the passenger side firewall - then there was absolutely no mention of Maple Leaf just “Holdens.” The truck was a full twin to my 1940 Chevrolet Holden in every manner that I could check. Position of side vents instead of a top vent below the windscreen and also quarter vent windows. Gauges and switches were the same. Only difference I could find was that the windscreen was fixed and mine swings up on hinges.

So apart from the Maple Leaf symbols on the bonnet and the Maple Leaf on the ID plate located on the firewall what other differences exist between a Holden Chevrolet and a Holden Built Maple Leaf Chevrolet? It did have 18 inch balloon type rims on the truck.

I also found a GMC Holden built 1940 ex Army truck too on the same day just to further muddy the waters.

Kind Regards
Lionel
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  #5  
Old 12-08-09, 13:54
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The trucks (and cars) of the mid 30's to 40's era are confusing due to a host of factors. I think in another thread there was a model list showing the wheelbases for the Chev as well as the Maple Leaf trucks which can be different. Main differences are mechanical with the Maple Leaf normally having a larger capacity motor for example and unless you are conversant with engine numbers and the minor differences it is hard to tell them apart especially when the same company has built the same cabs for both. Plus with 60 odd years of civilian ownership all sorts of funny things happen with body and mechanical parts being transfered. Back in the mid to late 30's a lot of re-badging was done on motor vehicles along with a few styling differences, plus to confuse people further the same local built bodies on suposed different makes.

Most army trucks of the era had either the 18inch military split rim wheels or civilian type rims and tyres fitted often between the same models so that is no real help. It was the model after yours where the top cowl vents became common along with the side vents. As you saw in the earlier posts the AWM photos of a standard Chev 3 ton and a Maple Leaf Chevrolet 3 ton look the same. So you really need the list of Chassis/body numbers of each to be totally sure. Plus your truck is not a Chevrolet Holden it is a WA Chevrolet assembled by Holden with a Holden built cab.

Hope this has not confused you too much and often it is easier for someone else to help positively ID a vehicle from photos and not just a discription. I have added another photo here from Pictures Australia showing WA Chevrolet trucks at Alice Springs in 1945. This photo shows the rear body type yours should have if you wish to restore it to it's full military glory. I also suggest rather then using the ARN number from the Maple Leaf Bonnet that you check the AWM's ARN number books first as they may give you your vehicles original ARN if you can match engine or chassis numbers.
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Alice springs 1945.jpg  
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Cliff Hutchings
aka MrRoo S.I.R.

"and on the 8th day he made trucks so that man, made on the 7th day, had shelter when woman threw him out for the night"
MrRoo says "TRUCKS ROOLE"
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  #6  
Old 12-08-09, 16:49
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Lionel, I think your confusion stems from the "Holden, Made in Australia" plate. Holden did not actually "Make" trucks. The components all came from the US or Canada regardless whether it was a car or truck. A certain amount of the bodywork WAS stamped out here and made by Holden, but by far the bulk of the vehicle is imported and assembled here. All GM products in Australia (car or truck) were only locally assembled imports by Holden's until the arrival of the 1948 48-215.

Despite the presence of the Holden plates, both the Chev and Maple Leaf are genuine Chev and Maple Leaf vehicles, not "Misleading sheep in wolves' clothing".
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  #7  
Old 13-08-09, 07:53
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Default Maple or Not

Hello Cliff,

Wow there is a lot more to consider than I thought The truck in question was motorless and lacking a gear box and I had my choice from a range kept on the property. The original motor was long gone so this was not much of a help.

Main differences are mechanical with the Maple Leaf normally having a larger capacity motor for example and unless you are conversant with engine numbers and the minor differences it is hard to tell them apart especially when the same company has built the same cabs for both.

Thanks for the photo. As Mike Kelly pointed out from a photo of my truck it has a hinged windscreen which Mike said came out in late 1940. The first couple of trucks pictured do not have the same windscreen hinges so they must have been built earlier than my truck.

I have added another photo here from Pictures Australia showing WA Chevrolet trucks at Alice Springs in 1945. This photo shows the rear body type yours should have if you wish to restore it to it's full military glory.



I also suggest rather then using the ARN number from the Maple Leaf Bonnet that you check the AWM's ARN number books first as they may give you your vehicles original ARN if you can match engine or chassis numbers.

Yes, my intention is to take the truck back to full military glory. The ID plate on the firewall has the chasis number stamped on it. Does the chassis have a number stamped somewhere on it so I can check it against the ID plate and if so where would I find it?

Do you mean that if I can give the Australian War Memorial my engine and chasis number can they give me my trucks original Army truck number?

Thanks for the help. I do have a book 1940 Chevorlet Maple Leaf and GMC Trucks shop manual Reproduced for the Australian Commonwealth Military Forces printed October 1942. It lists the dimensions of the various trucks and I did not have it with me when I was travelling at the time. If this is the best source of identifying trucks I will take it with me and a tape measure and use it as guide instead of firewall ID plates next time I go truck spotting .

Also in the photo you sent the spare wheel is in a compartment in the tray near the rear cabin wall. Would this have been an extra spare or did they remove the underslung spare tyre located near the towbar for improved clearance and relocated them in the tray?

Kind Regards
Lionel

Last edited by Lionelgee; 13-08-09 at 07:59.
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  #8  
Old 13-08-09, 08:28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lionelgee View Post
Hello Cliff,

Wow there is a lot more to consider than I thought

Do you mean that if I can give the Australian War Memorial my engine and chasis number can they give me my trucks original Army truck number?
No but the AWM has a series of original books that show what ARN went to which vehicle and what happened to the vehicle (disposed of date etc) I do not know if they have a complete set but others like Keith Webb, Tony Smith etc would have more idea of the process for looking and finding this.

Quote:
Also in the photo you sent the spare wheel is in a compartment in the tray near the rear cabin wall. Would this have been an extra spare or did they remove the underslung spare tyre located near the towbar for improved clearance and relocated them in the tray?

Kind Regards
Lionel
The underslung spare is probably a post army civilian addition with a tray change. I have a series of photos somewhere showing a ramp that slides out to roll the spare from the tray.

Hope this helps
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Cliff Hutchings
aka MrRoo S.I.R.

"and on the 8th day he made trucks so that man, made on the 7th day, had shelter when woman threw him out for the night"
MrRoo says "TRUCKS ROOLE"
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  #9  
Old 13-08-09, 13:17
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Lionelgee Lionelgee is offline
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Default Arn

Hello Cliff and other members,

Just wondering what the ARN stands for?

Kind Regards
Lionel
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  #10  
Old 13-08-09, 13:24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lionelgee View Post
Hello Cliff and other members,

Just wondering what the ARN stands for?

Kind Regards
Lionel
Australian or Army Registration Number
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Cliff Hutchings
aka MrRoo S.I.R.

"and on the 8th day he made trucks so that man, made on the 7th day, had shelter when woman threw him out for the night"
MrRoo says "TRUCKS ROOLE"
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  #11  
Old 13-08-09, 13:42
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Default Where abouts in Queensland are you

Hello Cliff,

I see by your sign in details that you live in Queensland too . I am in Bundaberg which part do you live in? Also what types of Army vehicle do you have?

Kind Regards
Lionel
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  #12  
Old 13-08-09, 23:35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lionelgee View Post
Hello Cliff,

I see by your sign in details that you live in Queensland too . I am in Bundaberg which part do you live in? Also what types of Army vehicle do you have?

Kind Regards
Lionel
I'm just down the road in Gympie and I own a fair few Australian, US and British WW2 vehicles however they are all in 1/35 scale LOL! . I do not now have a drivers licence or the health to own a real vehicle but I have a hobby in which I research historical vehicals and Australian WW2 one's in particular. While I like CMP's I am more interested in the MCP (Modified Civilian Pattern) Vehicles like your Chevrolet and the Ford and Dodge trucks. With me Armoured Vehicles come a poor second to the real vehicles without which the war would not have been won
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Cliff Hutchings
aka MrRoo S.I.R.

"and on the 8th day he made trucks so that man, made on the 7th day, had shelter when woman threw him out for the night"
MrRoo says "TRUCKS ROOLE"
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  #13  
Old 14-08-09, 22:29
Blackpowder44 (RIP) Blackpowder44 (RIP) is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Blair View Post
Good find..
you say...
also learnt that Australian Army trucks had the back of the differential centre painted white for safety. Something I did not know.



Safety yes,but the main reason was for one driver to follow the other in convoy at night during a black out.The white axle covers were fairly standard during WW 2..
Sometimes all that they could see was the white splotch in front of them..
Pic. of rear dif. tube light also switch for same usually located on chassis close to the light, also fitted to all trailors. John
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No 1 commando 002.jpg   No 1 commando 003.jpg  
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  #14  
Old 14-08-09, 23:03
Grant Bowker Grant Bowker is offline
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Default Interesting light and switch

Not what I would have expected based on Canadian CMPs..... and Canadian trailers seem to have used common light parts with the Canadian CMPs
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  #15  
Old 15-08-09, 09:32
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Default Rear Diff Light

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackpowder44 View Post
Pic. of rear dif. tube light also switch for same usually located on chassis close to the light, also fitted to all trailors. John
Hello John,

Thank you very much for the two photos of the rear diff light.

Could you please provide some idea of dimensions of the light? Also, if it is possible a photo or sketch of how the light would have been fitted to the diff?
After being told about the diff lights on this forum I went under my truck and found a couple of clips at the top of the diff case that probably held the wires in place as it led to the diff light. I imagine that the diff lights would be one of the first things to go once the trucks hit civilian life as only the clips are left on my truck

Has anyone got a photo of a 1940 Chevrolet rear stop/tail light to see if mine is original? My light has a round chrome case with a deep, deep red lens.

Kind Regards
Lionel

Last edited by Lionelgee; 15-08-09 at 09:37.
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  #16  
Old 15-08-09, 14:34
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Default Truck Diff Light

Hello All,,
Nothing good on TV so I am checking the Australian War Memorial for photos of truck beds. I just came across a photo of some people repairing a 3 ton truck diff. It shows what could be??? a diff light ???. Could those in the know check the photo and see if the thing at roughly 10 O'clock on the diff could be a light?

Photo is found at the Australian War Memorial Photo ID Numbe: 027880

Kind Regards
Lionel
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  #17  
Old 15-08-09, 17:11
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The diff lights don't mount on the rear end. They mount on the rear crossmember and shine down and ahead to illuminate the white on the diff housing.
If the tail light you've got is chrome it's likely not wartime.
The clips on top of the diff will be for the brake lines.
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  #18  
Old 16-08-09, 23:31
Blackpowder44 (RIP) Blackpowder44 (RIP) is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grant Bowker View Post
Not what I would have expected based on Canadian CMPs..... and Canadian trailers seem to have used common light parts with the Canadian CMPs
If used by British Army they would have these diff. light and switch fitted. This combo. was used to light up the white painted Diff. housing when under blackout. The normal rear lights for the Lorry or the trailer were on a seperate wiring circuit. John.
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  #19  
Old 16-08-09, 23:32
Blackpowder44 (RIP) Blackpowder44 (RIP) is offline
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Default Diff. Light

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lionelgee View Post
Hello John,

Thank you very much for the two photos of the rear diff light.

Could you please provide some idea of dimensions of the light? Also, if it is possible a photo or sketch of how the light would have been fitted to the diff?
After being told about the diff lights on this forum I went under my truck and found a couple of clips at the top of the diff case that probably held the wires in place as it led to the diff light. I imagine that the diff lights would be one of the first things to go once the trucks hit civilian life as only the clips are left on my truck

Has anyone got a photo of a 1940 Chevrolet rear stop/tail light to see if mine is original? My light has a round chrome case with a deep, deep red lens.

Kind Regards
Lionel
Will try to measure up on Monday, John.
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  #20  
Old 17-08-09, 19:25
Blackpowder44 (RIP) Blackpowder44 (RIP) is offline
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Default Dif. Light

The measurements for the Diff. Light are tube length 3 1/4 ins. Diameter 1 5/8. as has allready been said, the light and switch are fixed on the chassis or the rear cross member so that the light shines forward onto the White painted dif, or in the case of a trailer , onto a white painted plate. The picture on here is the light fixed onto my Jeep. It is rather misleading because the pic appears to show it closer to the Dif than it is, hope this helps. The wiring for this light is on its own circuit for convoy blackout lights and not linked to the main lighting circuit. John.PS attachments are US at this time, will try later.

Last edited by Blackpowder44 (RIP); 17-08-09 at 19:57.
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  #21  
Old 17-08-09, 23:41
Blackpowder44 (RIP) Blackpowder44 (RIP) is offline
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Default dif. light.

Picture of dif. light on my Jeep.
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  #22  
Old 20-08-09, 15:48
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Lionelgee Lionelgee is offline
Lionel G. Evans
 
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Default Diff Light

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackpowder44 View Post
Picture of dif. light on my Jeep.

Thank you very much for the photo of the diff light.

Kind Regards
Lionel
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