MkV Heliograph wanted

[David DeWeese]

Hi,

Was asked to display my C8 at a gun and militaria show here in Dallas this weekend. The only Commonwealth items there were some extremely overpriced Brens and such. I did find this tripod a bargain price, at the time I didn't know what it actually was, but bought it anyway..

I now need to find a MkV heliograph to put with it to make it complete...Did some research, and it's a fascinating piece of military equipment. Want to do a display with a complete working heliograph unit for folks to see.

It reads "Stand Lamp or Helio "A" MK III" on the tripod. What type lamp could the tripod also be used for?

The last photo is of the pieces I need, but currently on eBay UK with only a very few hours left. I was hoping to find one in Canada if possible..


Thanks, David

[BCA]

A shame; I recently sent my extra heliographs to a militaria auction. The common configuration has just a single mirror but the duplex mirror system shown in one of your photos is the nicest set-up. There is also an electric lamp, battery powered; the one I have is labelled: Lamp Electric Signalling Daylight Mark II-1918. I've seen tripods made in Toronto with WW2 dates. Others I've seen have WW1 dates. Somewhere I have a books of communications devices that includes a full description of the heliographs - can't put my finger on it right now but will keep looking.
The photos show a particularly nice example - in particular the nice condition of the duplex mirror case and contents. ............. Brian

[David DeWeese]

Thanks Brian for the reply and information!

Darn, wish I had found this tripod sooner. In all honesty I had never heard of a heliograph until I picked this up yesterday. I love this hobby as there is always something new and interesting to learn about!

My tripod has Mis-Can-Ada Ltd. Ottawa 1941 pressed into the wood on all three legs. Tried to do a Google search for the manufacturer, but all it kept coming up with was Miss Canada, which was most certainly a pleasant distraction.

If you find anything new, please let me know. Would also be interested to know what your battery-powered signal light looks like.

Thanks again,
David

[rob love]

It could be Mississauga Canada. I have this same name on a trench mirror dated 1943.

[universalgrl]

The manual you need is "Signal Training (all Arms) Pamphlet No. 2 Visual Signalling. There are 10 manuals in this set.
1. Signalling codes.
2. Visual signalling
3. Electricity and line signaling.
4. Wireless signalling
5. Signal procedure.
6. Procedure for Arty fire orders
7.Procedure for inter-service vis signalling
8. Signal office working
9. Training
10.Signal tactics

I have duplicates for 1 and 2 both dated 1942.

A full set of signalling equipment consists of the following.

1. I set of semaphore flags (easy to make).
2. 1 lamp signalling daylight short range (comes in wood or metal case) 1943
3. Heliograph 5-in MK V date unknown.
4. Tripod, fits both heliograph and daytime lamp. 1941
Those 4 items make up your sending station
5. Telescope signaling MK III or MK IV 1914
6. Tripod telescope stand 1914
These 2 item make up your receiving station.

Supposedly there was a trench variant of the telescope tripod but have never seen an example. Most spotters would have laid the telescope on the edge of the trench. My tripod will be restored to the correct height to match the other one


universalgrl

[David DeWeese]

Thanks Rob and Roberta for the replies!

Roberta, you have some very nice signalling equipment there!

Is the piece I arrowed in your photo a cap to protect the threads on the top of the tripod, or? Mine only has the chain left...

Would be very interested in your two spare manuals. Will pm.

Since the subject of trench optics has been touched on by you and Rob, does anyone know where I can get an original handle for the item in the last two photos?

Thanks again, David

[horsa]

You need a few Aldis lamps to complete the layout Roberta.

And yes David, that cap on the chain protects the threads at the end of the tripod for transit.

[universalgrl]

Dave
Here are pics of the cap and the 2 manuals.
The cap measures 19/32 high, 2 25/64 across the brim and 1 11/64 across the top of the cap.
I also have 4 R.E.L. pieces in my collection.
Binocular No. 2 CDN MK 2/5 1944
Binocular No. 5 CDN MK 2/4 1945
Trench periscope No 25 MK I 1943
Infantry range finder No. CAN-135 1942

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

Originally Posted by horsa

You need a few Aldis lamps to complete the layout Roberta.

And some flags.

[horsa]

Shot attached has the inverse of your flag Bruce. Maybe daytime and nighttime versions?

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

Originally Posted by horsa

Shot attached has the inverse of your flag Bruce. Maybe daytime and nighttime versions?

Light and dark backgrounds. The Sigs collar dogs (when enameled) demonstrate both.

[universalgrl]

According to the Visual Signalling Pam No. 2 Semaphore flags may be white with a blue horizontal stripe or all blue depending on the nature of the background.
Flags are 2 ft. square and the flag poles 3 ft. 6in. long.
Under average conditions in England, with the aid of a telescope, flag signals can be read at a distance of three miles
For some strange reason flag signals did not work worth a dam at night.

[Tony Smith]

More info and diagrams on the Mk5 Heliograph (and a pdf of the training pams)can be found ON THIS SITE.

[David DeWeese]

Hi,

Thanks everyone for the great information!

Bought this unit off eBay tonight. It doesn't look exactly like the WW2 ones I've seen, so may have "stepped in it", but the price and location was right for me.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...0#ht_167wt_914

Anyone have the leather case for it?

Thanks, David

EDIT: I have now located a leather case for it!

[David DeWeese]

Hi,

Finally found a complete Mk.V kit for sale in the U.S. on eBay last week and bought it. Looks like all the parts are with this one.

My plan is to collect all the other visual signalling equipment to go with it, and make a complete display.

Thanks, David

[David DeWeese]

Hi,

Bought a short range signalling lamp kit from eBay to go with my heliograph tripod,(thanks Roberta for the heads-up! ).

Does anyone have a couple of the clips that were used to secure the shoulder strap webbing? I think they should look like the one in the last photo?

Thanks, David

edit: found a couple of these clips in the floor debris of the Austin Champ I just bought.

[David DeWeese]

Hi,

Was on eBay a week ago and saw this item with a "make offer" listing.

Well, my offer was accepted and this is what showed up on my door. Was expecting a much smaller signalling lamp......no dimensions were given in the listing.

Is this a ship to ship signalling lamp, a shore to ship lamp, ground to aircraft, or...?

Any help gratefully appreciated.

Thanks, David

[37patt]

From what I was able to find they were used by beach landing parties for signalling ships offshore.

[Tim Bell]

Originally Posted by universalgrl

snip...

Supposedly there was a trench variant of the telescope tripod but have never seen an example. Most spotters would have laid the telescope on the edge of the trench. My tripod will be restored to the correct height to match the other one


universalgrl

I have a telescope tripod with much longer legs - I assume this is the variant you refer to. I have always assumed that all tripods were originally with the longer legs and then some cut down at a later date.

I can dig the tripod out sometime and take pics if this is any use?

Cheers

Tim