19-Set A-Set Aerial Base Assembly

[David Dunlop]

Of the three main pieces making up this assembly, I have been looking for years for the middle 'donut' Aerial Base No. 8, Mounting No. 3 that has been finished in the Number 2 Brown Paint to complete a Mark II Cdn Set in that colour. Seems to be scarcer than hens teeth.

My brain now tells me that in addition to these plywood and cork Mounting No. 3's, I have seen a solid black rubber version of this item from time to time and it might actually be a useful substitute until a Number 2 Brown one shows up.

What I would like to confirm is whether or not the solid rubber Mounting donuts were actually part of wartime 19-Set production, or something postwar, as could have been used with the C-42 Sets?


David

[rob love]

I never saw them with the C42 set.

[Chris Suslowicz]

Originally Posted by David Dunlop

Of the three main pieces making up this assembly, I have been looking for years for the middle 'donut' Aerial Base No. 8, Mounting No. 3 that has been finished in the Number 2 Brown Paint to complete a Mark II Cdn Set in that colour. Seems to be scarcer than hens teeth.

My brain now tells me that in addition to these plywood and cork Mounting No. 3's, I have seen a solid black rubber version of this item from time to time and it might actually be a useful substitute until a Number 2 Brown one shows up.

What I would like to confirm is whether or not the solid rubber Mounting donuts were actually part of wartime 19-Set production, or something postwar, as could have been used with the C-42 Sets?


David

Plywood and cork is Canadian manufacture. I have a green one, not seen brown.
Solid rubber is UK or US (I think). I've seen white, black, and I think natural (brown) rubber versions of this.
Steel "donut" is most likely post-WW2 but pre-dates the C42 because they were issued with the WS31 and WS88 AFV sets. (Once you've got the tooling set up they're a lot cheaper to make than the solid rubber ones.)

The stores code (ZA.1827) did not change.

(The Aerial Base No.8 Mounting No.1 (ZA.1825) is a rubber bonded to steel plate with threaded inserts for use through tank turret roofs with Aerial Feeder No.4 or No.5 which act as the retaining bolt for the whole assembly.)

There's a "stack" arrangement of these used with the WS88 AFV, which consists of a threaded tube/plate (simulating the aerial feeder No.4), then a mounting No1, "Plates, Connector, No.2", mounting No.3, and Aerial Base No.10 (or later, No.28). Add rubber gaskets (to keep water and NBC nasties out) between all the components and it gets quite complicated!

There's also a flat steel plate with 6 studs, a central (drilled) bolt and cork gaskets both sides that I believe was used with the WS38(AFV or not) in tanks early on. This takes the standard Cable, Electric, P11 feeder through the central bolt and the ring terminal (or Ross Courtney terminal) is screwed directly to the base contact - no pigtail used - the other end has a split plug to fit the WS38AFV aerial socket.

I keep meaning to do photographs of this lot. "The illustrated VAOS." (Runs away fast.)

Chris.

[Bruce MacMillan]

I have one marked ZA1763. It is all black rubber. It is listed in the EMER FZ256/3 for standard kit dated Oct 1, 1944 so I think it's safe to say it's WW2. Kit is listed for Canadian MK III.

[Chris Suslowicz]

Originally Posted by Bruce MacMillan

I have one marked ZA1763. It is all black rubber. It is listed in the EMER FZ256/3 for standard kit dated Oct 1, 1944 so I think it's safe to say it's WW2. Kit is listed for Canadian MK III.

ZA.1763 is Aerial Base No.8, not the mounting spacer.
ZA.1764 is Aerial Base No.9 (for the 'B' set)
ZA.1765 is Aerial Base No.9 Mounting No.1 (the short pillar)
ZA.1771 is Aerial Rod 'G' for Base No.9

ZA.10322 is Aerial Base No.9A (on clamp for Truck & Ground station)

One problem is that a lot of stuff got renumbered, due to various revisions, differences in manufacture between UK/Can/US/Aust., and so on. A full list of the VAOS would be nice but probably impossible.

Chris.
(I have a ceramic insulator for the 34-ft mast but it's NOT the one in any of the manuals; the numbers on the castings tie up with the mast parts, and I suspect it proved too fragile in use and was replaced by the vulcanite type (itself later replaced vy a heavy-duty ceramic version for use with the WS52, etc.)

[David Dunlop]

Thank you all for the feedback, gentlemen. Much appreciated.

It does seem odd not being able to find a plywood/cork Mounting No. 3 painted up in Number 2 Brown. My first thought was that it was too small an item to worry about, but I have the corresponding Aerial Base No. 8 in original Number 2 Brown and there is even less painted surface area on it than on the Mounting No. 3. My now current speculation is that the numbers of Mounting No. 3's produced in brown were dramatically lower in quantity, so proportionally fewer have survived.

I can see the problem with the use of plywood. Paint would not hold up to wear and tear very well and before long the plywood would be exposed to the elements. The animal glues of the day would not hold up and the next thing you know the Mounting would structurally fail. All rubber makes sense as a much better replacement.

Glad you mentioned the white rubber ones, Chris. I saw one on eBay a while back and thought it was a modern silicon fake, so stayed clear of it. I will keep an eye out for a black rubber one now.

Cheers,


David

[Chris Suslowicz]

Originally Posted by David Dunlop

Thank you all for the feedback, gentlemen. Much appreciated.

It does seem odd not being able to find a plywood/cork Mounting No. 3 painted up in Number 2 Brown. My first thought was that it was too small an item to worry about, but I have the corresponding Aerial Base No. 8 in original Number 2 Brown and there is even less painted surface area on it than on the Mounting No. 3. My now current speculation is that the numbers of Mounting No. 3's produced in brown were dramatically lower in quantity, so proportionally fewer have survived.

I can see the problem with the use of plywood. Paint would not hold up to wear and tear very well and before long the plywood would be exposed to the elements. The animal glues of the day would not hold up and the next thing you know the Mounting would structurally fail. All rubber makes sense as a much better replacement.

Glad you mentioned the white rubber ones, Chris. I saw one on eBay a while back and thought it was a modern silicon fake, so stayed clear of it. I will keep an eye out for a black rubber one now.

Cheers,


David

My suspicion is that the colour scheme was specified in the contract, at least initially, and depended on the intended theatre of use. (Brown for North Africa, green for Europe.) As a result, later production is more likely to have been specified in green, and the brown accessories not in stores would have been fitted and probably repainted as required. I have Canadian sets in green as well as brown (though one of them has been brush-painted), likewise ancillaries. I cannot remember the colour of the wooden variometer packing piece, but I've seen them in green and brown painted wood, bakelite, rubber (with Canadian acceptance stamp) the American steel pressing that is the seating plate and packing piece in a single item, and post-WW2 Italian rough-cast alloy.

Plywood is fine, it's almost certainly marine ply with waterproof glue, and if used in a damp climate would be painted if it showed signs of damage. More importantly it would be cheaper in terms of strategic raw materials to manufacture: Canada was not short of timber. :-)>

Post-WW2 I think they switched to steel with rubber gaskets as it was simple and cheap to manufacture, especially the mounting No.1 with its threaded inserts for the retaining bolts.

Regards,
Chris.

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

Colour was by date similar to vehicles. Brown was 1943 production and OD was 1944 to the end of the war. Before that radio colours seemed to be a dark green which doesn't quite match the khaki vehicle colour 1940-42. I've never seen or heard of a 'desert sand' (ie Light Stone) paint used on wireless equipment. The rubber 'donuts' for the No.8 'A' aerial bases are wartime.

Originally Posted by Chris Suslowicz

My suspicion is that the colour scheme was specified in the contract, at least initially, and depended on the intended theatre of use. (Brown for North Africa, green for Europe.) As a result, later production is more likely to have been specified in green, and the brown accessories not in stores would have been fitted and probably repainted as required. I have Canadian sets in green as well as brown (though one of them has been brush-painted), likewise ancillaries. I cannot remember the colour of the wooden variometer packing piece, but I've seen them in green and brown painted wood, bakelite, rubber (with Canadian acceptance stamp) the American steel pressing that is the seating plate and packing piece in a single item, and post-WW2 Italian rough-cast alloy.

Plywood is fine, it's almost certainly marine ply with waterproof glue, and if used in a damp climate would be painted if it showed signs of damage. More importantly it would be cheaper in terms of strategic raw materials to manufacture: Canada was not short of timber. :-)>

Post-WW2 I think they switched to steel with rubber gaskets as it was simple and cheap to manufacture, especially the mounting No.1 with its threaded inserts for the retaining bolts.

Regards,
Chris.

[Bruce MacMillan]

Originally Posted by Chris Suslowicz

ZA.1763 is Aerial Base No.8, not the mounting spacer.

Yes the aerial base is the ZA1763 and the black rubber base is ZA1825. Both appear in the 1944 EMER so would be period correct for WW2. What is not known is when it was introduced.

[Chris Suslowicz]

Originally Posted by Bruce MacMillan

Yes the aerial base is the ZA1763 and the black rubber base is ZA1825. Both appear in the 1944 EMER so would be period correct for WW2. What is not known is when it was introduced.

Early WW2 (very early) is my guess, and original to the (British manufactured) set.

The original stores vocabulary had no stores codes, it was simply a keyword list until early in WW2 at which point they were forced to number everything to simplify ordering. This mist have happened around 1938/1939 because large quantities of the WS19 ancillaries have low-ish stores codes. (Lower than things which definitely pre-dated the WS19 development.)

e.g. Bags, Aerial Gear No.2 Mk.II (for the sectional 34-ft mast) is ZA.0437, its insulator, W/T 'B' is ZA.4432, and the humble "Satchel Signals" is ZA.6292 (having replaced Bags, Telephone Receiver and Cases, Message Book, Mk.V). The WS19 aerial components are somewhere in the middle, with the aerial bases around ZA.176x, along with the original multiway connectors, the aerial rods somewhat lower (Aerial Rods 'F' at ZA.0894, 5 & 6),
and the feeder co-ax ZA.3141-3.

I may have a go at constructing a list - I have a reasonable selection of source material.

:-)>

(Note: I am definitely not proposing to index the 30,000+ items that had beed in Section 'Z' by the end of WW2; life is definitely too short for that!)

Chris.

[Chris Suslowicz]

Originally Posted by David Dunlop

I can see the problem with the use of plywood. Paint would not hold up to wear and tear very well and before long the plywood would be exposed to the elements. The animal glues of the day would not hold up and the next thing you know the Mounting would structurally fail.

Actually, there is no chance of a structural failure, since the plywood "mounting" is simply a spacer to accommodate the insulator on the "Plates, Connector, No.1" or "Aerial Feeder No.x" that adapts the feeder from the set (which varies according to installation) to the "pigtail" lead that connects to the aerial base No.8 (or No.10). It cannot fail due to delamination because it's sandwiched between the aerial base mounting flange and the vehicle body or bracket and there are six hex bolts (I think 1/4-in BSF) that pass through the whole assembly - the designer was obviously determined that it would not fall off in service!

Chris.