MLU FORUM  

Go Back   MLU FORUM > GENERAL WW2 TOPICS > The Wireless Forum

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 21-02-13, 01:32
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Winnipeg, MB
Posts: 3,384
Default 19-Set Aerial Bases

Before I officially start looking for them, can anyone confirm if the following two aerial bases were ever issued in No. 2 Brown finish, or would I be chasing ghosts? They are the last two items I need in that colour to finish a Canadian Mk II Set.

Aerial Base No. 9 Mount ZA 1766, PC 76420. It is 10 inches tall from the base plate.

Aerial Base No.8 Mounting No.3 ZA 1827 PC 765550. The plywood and cork donut.

Thanks,

David
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 21-02-13, 01:37
Bruce Parker (RIP) Bruce Parker (RIP) is offline
GM Fox I
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SW Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,606
Default

Yes, both come in brown. I have a No.9 in brown and have seen the No.8 as well.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 21-02-13, 02:37
universalgrl universalgrl is offline
Roberta
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Comox BC
Posts: 157
Default Aerial bases No 8

The base on the left is in the brown, the one on the right the green.
Attached Thumbnails
DSCF3791.jpg  
__________________
Roberta Jayne Melville CD II QJ

MK I * universal carrier
1942 WLC Harley under restoration
1957 M38A1 jeep
R.E.L. optical equipment
Military manuals
Field phones
MK II 19 set (needs work)
4 MK III W-19 sets
AN/PRC-9
CPRC-26
WS-29 componets
WS-38 AFV
WS-38 MK III
WS-48 with generator
WS-58 MK I
MK V heliograph
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 23-02-13, 01:20
Johnny Canuck Johnny Canuck is offline
Geoff Truscott
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 158
Default

Is issue colour relevent? Wouldn't the mount be painted the colour or pattern used at the time you are depicting. Didn't colours and patterns very over time as material availability changed. Early Green, mid Brown, late Green with Black. Plus theatre variations.

Geoff
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 23-02-13, 03:00
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Winnipeg, MB
Posts: 3,384
Default

Hi Geoff.

Interesting point. Lots of great overlap for a proper answer.

First, for a short specific answer to my quest for the two aerial items, I simply need them to complete the No. 19 Mk II I have in No. 2 Brown. My Mk III Set is all Olive Drab and all the major painted bits are accounted for now.

That takes us to the bigger picture of Canadian Military Vehicles and their colours. During World War Two, Canadian manufactured military vehicles came in four colours: Khaki (a sort of light matte green, Light Stone, Olive Drab and No. 2 Brown. They did not evolve or flow into one another over time during the war. They were basically connected to the theatres of war in which the Canadians were operating at any given time for which new vehicles were needed. Whenever a contract for vehicles was placed, the colour required was part of the contract. In general, overseas vehicles were ordered in Khaki, Light Stone ( a desert colour by the way) or Olive Drab. Vehicles retained in Canada were typically No. 2 Brown or Olive Drab. It seems that wireless equipment was matched to some degree to the basic vehicle colours. Olive Drab, Khaki and No. 2 Brown sets are very common. I cannot say I have ever seen a set in Light Stone, however.

I am not sure why wireless equipment would not have used just one colour. Granted some sets were operated in open vehicles (Universal Carriers) for example, but in these cases, the set was issued with a cover to protect it from the elements, so whatever colour the set was, it would have been hidden anyway. It certainly would have simplified the painting process during manufacture.

The other wrinkle is that as vehicles relocated to different theatres, they would get repainted. I doubt the Herbies worried about the wireless equipment during the repaint process.

The final mix is that all American built vehicles ordered by Canada would arrive in the current paint colour for the US Army. British and Australian vehicles had their own colours as well and it was not unusual for vehicles to change ownership for various reasons throughout the war.

So I guess to clarify(?) for you, no, the paints did not evolved on their own throughout the war. The theatre of operation changed as the war moved on and the paints just went along for the ride.

Hope you don't have a headache now, Geoff.

David
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 23-02-13, 11:09
Bruce MacMillan Bruce MacMillan is offline
a Canuck/Brit in Blighty
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Hell Fire Corner, Kent UK
Posts: 697
Default

I don't think the wireless sets were painted for the theatre of operation. I've seen four different colours for the cases in the dozen or so I have owned. There were matte flat brown, wrinkle brown, flat OD and wrinkle OD. There are different coloured panels as well. There were many manufacturers in Canada, England, U.S., and Australia each with their own paint shop.

Sets came from the factory that way. They were shipped to the Canadian ordnance stores in Greenford, Middlesex. Units made draws against the store and took pot luck as to manufacturer and colour. The vehicles were with respective units prior to supply of the wireless sets. That's not to say they couldn't be painted if the vehicle was getting repaired. In 1943 19 sets were in short supply so the Canadian army drew from British stores and got whatever colour they used.

The complete installation comprised of two kits. The first was the 19 set proper to CES. This included the A & B sets mounts. The second kit was the mounting kit for whatever vehicle it was for. For example the carrier kit didn't come with a #8 mount but had the wooden spacer needed.

When the MK II carrier appeared Canada had no mounting kits so again, British stores were used. Same with the addition of the Welsh Guards basket.

In spring of 1944 the preparation for D-day created a shortage of 19 sets so the 22 set was issued to Canadian Army. Again the 22 set was British made with their own colour scheme.

Also in May 1944 distribution of wireless was changed from formation to particular vehicle needs. The MK II was withdrawn from service in 1944.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 23-02-13, 11:21
Tim Bell's Avatar
Tim Bell Tim Bell is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Tamar Valley, Cornwall
Posts: 751
Default

What about the spacer block which goes between the aerial base and the vehicle... i've seen these in white, black, brown rubber, green metal, green wood... never quite got to grips with the reasons for the variations in these?

Tim
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 23-02-13, 16:39
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Winnipeg, MB
Posts: 3,384
Default

Hi Bruce.

I think you are right. Vehicle paint would have initially been theatre dependent, wireless sets were painted with whatever paint the manufacturer found it could get a reliable supply of at any given time. I have had a lot of colour variations in sets pass through my hands over the years as well, but can now only match up the few still in my collection.

Currently I can match up:

19-Set Mk II (Cdn): RCA Canada Transceiver and Philco USA PSU in No. 2 Brown Wrinkle

19-Set Mk III (Cdn): All RCA Canada in semi flat OD

19-Set A/C PSU: RCA Canada in semi flat No. 2 Brown

27-Set (Cdn): Rogers Majestic Canada in wrinkle No. 2 Brown

58-Set Mk I (Cdn): Addison Industries in a weird flat green/brown

19-Set Crystal Calibrator: Marconi Canada in wrinkle OD

Vibrator Converter: Electronic Laboratories of Canada in semi gloss OD

A number of years ago I also had a British Pye Communications Receiver Set that was wrinkle black.

The one other observation I can think of is that I have never seen an original paint on a Wireless Remote Control Unit No. I Canadian, or Field Phone Set that was not a flat finish. Perhaps that is related to these items all having wooden cases and maybe wrinkle paints were a metal only finish.

I would be interesting to see what other colours show up from the USA and other Commonwealth areas. I think Australia made their own wireless equipment, not sure about New Zealand.

David
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 23-02-13, 17:30
Bruce MacMillan Bruce MacMillan is offline
a Canuck/Brit in Blighty
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Hell Fire Corner, Kent UK
Posts: 697
Default

Hi David,

Yes it can be a real dog's breakfast when it comes to colour schemes.

Mind you when sets go to RCEME they may not get the same case back. I have a WS19 AC supply made in 1950 with a brown wrinkle case marked with C/|\.

My WS27 is also brown as are the spares kit.

Both my WS58 MkI sets are brown wrinkle as are the vibrator packs & battle battery box and the WS58 MkI/*/T is also brown wrinkle.

I think the NT11 Marconi calibrators came in OD only.

I have a WS19 that came with a white case. It was painted quite well inside & out. Maybe from a UN deployment?

I had two Canadian Marconi WS11 sets. Both had black wrinkle case but one had a smooth lime green front panel (original) & the other a black wrinkle face

If your British receiver was a PCR series, like Henry Ford, it only came in black.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 16:00.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Maple Leaf Up, 2003-2016