Help to identify

[Dirk Leegwater (RIP)]

Who recognize these pictures, and special who are they ?
British, Canadians ? and what can tell us the markings ?


Many thanks, Dirk

[Bob Carriere]

... they do not seem to be having much fun..... cold...muddy
....or the food was totally horrible.......

Sure is different than what was glorified and illustrated by Hollywood......

Bob

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally posted by Dirk Leegwater
Who recognize these pictures, and special who are they ?
British, Canadians ? and what can tell us the markings ?

Hi Dirk;

The AoS marking '61', denotes that the carriers belong to the Senior Infantry Battalion of the Infantry Brigade of an Armoured Division, but not seeing any Formation Sign on any of the vehicles in the photos makes it hard to say which division they belong to. I would say that they are British troops, not Canadian.

Cheers

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally posted by Dirk Leegwater
Who recognize these pictures, and special who are they ?
British, Canadians ? and what can tell us the markings ?

Hi Dirk;

From five different sources, I can say that: -

The tanks belong to the 3rd Battalion, Royal Tank Regiment (3 RTR) of 29th Armoured Brigade, 11th Armoured Division.

The carriers belong to the 3rd Battalion, The Monmouthshire Regiment of 159th Infantry Brigade, 11th Armoured Division.

The photo was taken on 24 September 1944, south of Helmond, The Netherlands.

The inserted photo is that of the Monmouthshire cap badge, compare it to the two in your photo.


Cheers

[Dirk Leegwater (RIP)]

Originally posted by Bob Carriere
... they do not seem to be having much fun..... cold...muddy
....or the food was totally horrible.......

You'r right Bob, reality on the East side of Holland, Fall 1944.

Mvg. Dirk

[Dirk Leegwater (RIP)]

Originally posted by Mark W. Tonner

From five different sources, I can say that: -

Many thanks Mark, for your quick and clear answer about my questions.
One of the reason of my question is that I will re-paint the Loyd Carrier
and now with Canadian markings ! Can you help again ? I saw a picture
in a book from Jean Bouchery "The Canadian Soldier" page 125, from a Norton
motorbike and a Loyd Carrier of the South Alberta Regiment.
I know a picture is a picture but a good advice from an expert is for me more valuable.

Mvg. Dirk

[Rich Payne]

Dirk, I think that I have a copy of the picture that you are referring to but didn't know where it came from. Is it this one and captioned as "Belgium 1944" ?



Do you have an accurate date and location for the picture ?

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally posted by Dirk Leegwater
One of the reason of my question is that I will re-paint the Loyd Carrier and now with Canadian markings ! Can you help again ? I saw a picture in a book from Jean Bouchery "The Canadian Soldier" page 125, from a Norton motorbike and a Loyd Carrier of the South Alberta Regiment. I know a picture is a picture but a good advice from an expert is for me more valuable.

Hi Dirk;

The markings for the SAR Loyd carrier and Norton pictured would have been:

AoS: - figures '45' in white, on a background of green over blue (see left image)
Fmn Sign used: - 4th Canadian Armoured Division - yellow or gold maple leaf on a background of green (see right image)



Cheers

Originally posted by Rich Payne
Dirk, I think that I have a copy of the picture that you are referring to but didn't know where it came from. Is it this one and captioned as "Belgium 1944" ? Do you have an accurate date and location for the picture ?

Hi Rich;

This photo appears in the book 'SOUTH ALBERTAS, A CANADIAN REGIMENT AT WAR', by D.E. Graves. The photo credit is to 'DND' (Department of National Defence) and the caption reads:

"The media discover the SAR. Sergeant George Muehllehner (left) of Calgary poses for the Canadian Army photographer with Troopers Gerald Nelles of Edmonton and Rick Frankson of Camrose in April 1943 in a photo used to illustrate an article on the Regiment by Ross Munro. The vehicle is a Loyd carrier."

The caption goes on to say that Trooper Frankson was killed-in-action at Moerbrugge, Belgium, on 12 September 1944. This maybe why the photo you have is captioned 'Belgium 1944'.

The photo was in fact, taken in April 1943 while the SAR were still in the United Kingdom.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Originally posted by Mark W. Tonner

Hi Rich;

This photo appears in the book 'SOUTH ALBERTAS, A CANADIAN REGIMENT AT WAR', by D.E. Graves. The photo credit is to 'DND' (Department of National Defence) and the caption reads:

"The media discover the SAR. Sergeant George Muehllehner (left) of Calgary poses for the Canadian Army photographer with Troopers Gerald Nelles of Edmonton and Rick Frankson of Camrose in April 1943 in a photo used to illustrate an article on the Regiment by Ross Munro. The vehicle is a Loyd carrier."

The caption goes on to say that Trooper Frankson was killed-in-action at Moerbrugge, Belgium, on 12 September 1944. This maybe why the photo you have is captioned 'Belgium 1944'.

The photo was in fact, taken in April 1943 while the SAR were still in the United Kingdom.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

Did the SAR actually go to war with a compliment of Loyds/6 pdrs? Seems a kind of strange kit for an armoured regiment... one would think the Loyds might have been redeployed to supporting infantry AT platoons...

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally posted by Geoff Winnington-Ball
Did the SAR actually go to war with a compliment of Loyds/6 pdrs?

Hi Geoff;

In the battery charger configuration, not as a 6 pdr tower.

Cheers

[Dirk Leegwater (RIP)]

Originally posted by Mark W. Tonner

The markings for the SAR Loyd carrier and Norton pictured would have been:

AoS: - figures '45' in white, on a background of green over blue (see left image)
Fmn Sign used: - 4th Canadian Armoured Division - yellow or gold maple leaf on a
background of green (see right image)

Thanks again Mark, we can start the painting job!
But, have the Canadian Army, Loyd Carriers used
in Holland ?

Tot ziens, Dirk

[Hendrik van Oorspronk]

Originally posted by Dirk Leegwater
Thanks again Mark, we can start the painting job!
But, have the Canadian Army, Loyd Carriers used
in Holland ?

Tot ziens, Dirk

Hello Dirk, I don't know, at our place the 6 pounder was towed by a F15A.

Groeten Hendrik

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally posted by Dirk Leegwater
Thanks again Mark, we can start the painting job!
But, have the Canadian Army, Loyd Carriers used
in Holland ?

Hi Dirk;

A question: - what configuration is your Loyd carrier in, is it configured as a battery charger?

Cheers

[Dirk Leegwater (RIP)]

Originally posted by Mark W. Tonner
A question: - what configuration is your Loyd carrier in,
is it configured as a battery charger?

Hi Mark, our Loyd Carrier is a real "towing carrier", well your conclusion
about the first two pictures from the Loyd Carriers in
Helmond (The Netherlands) is a nice advice :
================================================== The carriers belong to the 3rd Battalion, The Monmouthshire Regiment
of 159th Infantry Brigade, 11th Armoured Division.
==================================================
Mvg. Dirk

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally posted by Dirk Leegwater
Hi Mark, our Loyd Carrier is a real "towing carrier", well your conclusion
about the first two pictures from the Loyd Carriers in
Helmond (The Netherlands) is a nice advice :
================================================== The carriers belong to the 3rd Battalion, The Monmouthshire Regiment
of 159th Infantry Brigade, 11th Armoured Division.
==================================================
Mvg. Dirk

Hi Dirk;

The AoS for 3 Monmouths was '61' on a green background and the formation sign used was that of the 11th Armoured Division.

When I get home, I'll post an image of the 11th Armd Div Fmn Sign.

Cheers

[Dirk Leegwater (RIP)]

Originally posted by Mark W. Tonner
The AoS for 3 Monmouths was '61' on a green background and the formation
sign used was that of the 11th Armoured Division.

Hi Mark, thanks again for your advice. Steven's painting job is done, the Loyd Carrier plus
6-pdr is ready to go. See KTR 's poster in MLU's "Event" forum.

Mvg. Dirk

[Mike Timoshyk]

WOW! says it all.

[Lynn Eades]

Has T239590 as Carrier Tracked Towing No1 or No2 (4.2in. Mortar)

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally posted by Dirk Leegwater
Hi Mark, thanks again for your advice. Steven's painting job is done, the Loyd Carrier plus
6-pdr is ready to go. See KTR 's poster in MLU's "Event" forum.

Mvg. Dirk

Hi Dirk;

Glad I could help, the Loyd looks Great!, well done

Cheers

[Alex van de Wetering]

Great work Dirk and Stefan, also on the Fox!

Will you be driving the large tour on saterday of the KTR celebration?

Alex

[Dirk Leegwater (RIP)]

Originally posted by Alex van de Wetering
Great work Dirk and Stefan, also on the Fox!
Will you be driving the large tour on saterday of the KTR celebration?

Stefan will drive the large tour (100KM) with the Fox and the old
guy Dirk the easy tour with the Loyd. By the way, Stefan need / is looking
to a "pilot" in the turret. I know there are some veterans, but seen what happens.

Mvg. Dirk

[Barry Churcher]

Sorry I can't be there for this anniversary. I was lucky enough to attend the 25th and had a great time. I still have KTR Dollars to spend. It would also be great to stand in the turret and be Stefan's pilot. A kick in the left ear means turn left and in the right ear turn right. A kick in the back of the head means pay attention.
Barry

[Alex Blair (RIP)]

Originally posted by Barry Churcher
Sorry I can't be there for this anniversary. I was lucky enough to attend the 25th and had a great time. I still have KTR Dollars to spend. It would also be great to stand in the turret and be Stefan's pilot. A kick in the left ear means turn left and in the right ear turn right. A kick in the back of the head means pay attention.
Barry

Barry .
When Stephan gets tired of you kicking him in the head and he kicks you in the crotch...does that mean..."I quit..!!"
No Translation needed...

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Originally posted by Alex Blair
Barry .
When Stephan gets tired of you kicking him in the head and he kicks you in the crotch...does that mean..."I quit..!!"
No Translation needed...

That's the wonderful thing about the cramped driver's compartment in the Fox... by the time the driver manages to get out of his seat, the commander is long gone, laughing himself silly!

[Stefan Leegwater]

You're right Geoff, so maybe not too many good ideas of kickin' the driver in the neck

Cheers,

Stefan

(five days to go)

[Alex van de Wetering]

Guys,

I am about to leave for a short holiday, roughly in the direction of the KTR celebration. I hope to see you guys next saterday.

Is the Loyd ready for a photoshoot for the cover of Nigel's second Carrier book???

Stefan need / is looking to a "pilot" in the turret. I know there are some veterans, but seen what happens

You should really get a veteran in the turret. Those guys deserve it.

Alex