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  #1  
Old 06-03-03, 17:19
R Mark Davies R Mark Davies is offline
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Default Indian Pattern Carriers

Hi Gents,

I'm looking into the India Pattern Armoured Carriers (ACV-IP) used by the Indian & Commonwealth Forces. As I understand it, CMP chassis were sent to India, where they were fitted with armoured bodies in Indian workshops.

The Mk II and IIa are fairly well documented and these were basically a turretless armoured car - rather like a large Dingo, with Bren and Boys armament and a crew of three - mainly used as a Light Recce or Liaison Car, as well as an OP vehicle.

However, the Mk I seems to be very difficult to track down. From Indian cavalry organisations, it was clearly used as a light APC in lieu of the Universal Carrier in Recce Regiments. George Forty claims it was based on the experimental Guy Wheeled Carrier. He also states that the appearance varied depending on which workshop did the modifications.

I have a photo of the Guy Wheeled Carrier, but I can't find any photos or plans of the Mk I IP Carrier. Are the above comments correct? Was it basically a wheeled Universal-type troop/weapon carrier? Can anyone help?

Mark
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  #2  
Old 06-03-03, 17:40
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Default Carrier, Wheeled, 4x4 (Indian Pattern)

Mark,

The India Pattern Armoured Carriers are often referred to as "Carrier, Wheeled, 4x4 (Indian Pattern)" or "Armoured Carrier, Wheeled, Indian Pattern". Best source of info I know is Wheels & Tracks issue no.41; also check the following threads on the Old Forum:Hope this helps,
Hanno
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  #3  
Old 06-03-03, 19:25
R Mark Davies R Mark Davies is offline
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Default Thanks Hanno

Great pictures, Hanno! The Mk IV Carrier (the Afghan one) is interesting - it looks a lot like the original Guy Carrier.

Mark
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  #4  
Old 26-03-03, 16:25
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Default Re: Thanks Hanno

Quote:
Originally posted by R Mark Davies
The Mk IV Carrier (the Afghan one) is interesting - it looks a lot like the original Guy Carrier.
Mark, yes, it does, doesn't it

Here's a three-quarter rear view of the Guy Wheeled Carrier: http://ww2photo.mimerswell.com/tanks/gb/bil/guy/wc.htm

The Indian Pattern Wheeled Carrier is discussed in the thread "Revised 1942 S/M Contracts Listing" as well.

Cheers, Hanno
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  #5  
Old 17-12-03, 12:31
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Default Indian l.r.d.g. Unit 1943

See some interestings film stills of Indian Pattern Armoured Wheelded Carriers in the thread "LRGD indian units (4 pics) strange vehicle help !" at the Allied WWII AFV Discussion Group.

http://imagen.britishpathe.com/scrip...00000134&sif=0

The stills come from film 1815.15 "INDIAN L.R.D.G. UNIT 1943" at the British Pathť site.

Regards,
Hanno
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  #6  
Old 20-04-04, 15:40
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Default Re: Carrier, Wheeled, 4x4 (Indian Pattern)

Quote:
Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
also check the following threads on the Old Forum:
I've noticed some of the threads on the old forum have disappeared. The second one is gone already, so I'm copying the first one here before it gets lost as well:

Quote:

Carrier, Wheeled, 4x4 (Indian Pattern)
April 13 2002 at 4:46 PM Hanno Spoelstra

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

See the American Memory from the Library of Congress site for some fascinating wartime pictures. The search for "India Armoured Car" gave the following results:


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"Combat car in India. A newly completed armored combat car going through a rigid final test somewhere in India. The armored plate is put on the chasis in India. Lend-lease materials and equipment play a vital part in the manufacture of these cars."

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"United States "lend-lease" program in eastern India. An American "Do-All" machine saws armor plate for use in combat cars at an Indian factory. Lend-lease materials are essential in the manufacture of this super-tough steel."

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"United States "lend-lease" program in eastern India. A newly completed combat car on the testing ground "somewhere in India." The armor plate is put on the chassis in India. Lend-lease materials and equipment play a vital part in the manufacture of these cars."

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"United States "lend-lease" program in eastern India. An Indian workman, using an American welder which was supplied under lend-lease, welds an armor plate on a nearly completed combat car."

Last edited by Hanno Spoelstra; 11-11-20 at 12:17. Reason: edited to attach photos
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  #7  
Old 26-10-12, 11:47
Alex van de Wetering Alex van de Wetering is offline
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I came across this picture in the Dutch Army photo archive....no idea if it has been posted on the forum before, but better safe than sorry.

source: http://nimh-beeldbank.defensie.nl/nl...d/pantserwagen

Dutch East Indies 1947.

Alex
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  #8  
Old 26-10-12, 14:56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex van de Wetering View Post
I came across this picture in the Dutch Army photo archive....no idea if it has been posted on the forum before, but better safe than sorry.
Alex,

It did ring a bell so I had a search for it. Found it in the thread armoured vehicle query, which has more pictures of these types of carrier in the NEI.

Hanno
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  #9  
Old 30-09-19, 23:44
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Wheeled Armoured Carrier assembly line: "fit floor plate and floors" station (IWM IND 517)

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  #10  
Old 11-11-20, 12:31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex van de Wetering View Post
I came across this picture in the Dutch Army photo archive....no idea if it has been posted on the forum before, but better safe than sorry.

source: http://nimh-beeldbank.defensie.nl/nl...d/pantserwagen

Dutch East Indies 1947.
Here's another shot of the same type of wheeled carrier (may even the same example). Recently unearthed by Keith Webb from the Netherlands National Archives:
Quote:
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Collection / Archive Fotocollectie Dienst voor Legercontacten IndonesiŽ
Report / Series [DLC] Bezoek van professor Romme aan Medan
Description Dr. C.P.M. Romme (in licht overhemd) maakt tocht langs de "dodenweg" van Medan naar Belawan
Date 2 februari 1947
Location IndonesiŽ, Medan, Nederlands-IndiŽ, Sumatra
Person names Romme, C.P.M.
Photographer Fotograaf Onbekend / DLC
Copyright Holder Nationaal Archief, CC0
Physical Description Negatief (zwart/wit)
Catalog reference number 2.24.04.03
Inventory File Number 146-1-2
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  #11  
Old 14-11-20, 22:51
Ed Storey Ed Storey is offline
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Default Indian Pattern Carrier

My Father has owned this British booklet Our Men in Korea since 1955 and because of all the CMPs, this photograph has always been my favourite.

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  #12  
Old 15-11-20, 23:15
chrisgrove chrisgrove is offline
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Smile LPOPs

Those Indian Pattern Wheeled Carriers from Korea are New Zealand LPOPs (not entirely sure what that stands for). Very similar to the wartime Indian ones but just slightly different. Driver hatch is nearer the centre of the vehicle for one.
Chris
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  #13  
Old 18-11-20, 07:57
Andrew Rowe Andrew Rowe is offline
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Default Lpop

That picture is of New Zealand Wheeled Carriers in Korea, that were used as gun tractors for the 25pdr's. They did not find them that suitable as they were fairly wide for the dykes. They were fitted with a White Scout Car front roller before they were shipped to Korea, as this was not a Standard feature when they were manufactured in WW2, In New Zealand. 76 were manufactured in NZ during the War to full body status, even though 99 chassis's had been imported for the build program. The LPOP, stands for Local Pattern Observation Post.
It was modeled from the "Indian Pattern " wheeled Carrier with welding used to construct the bodies, where as the Indian ones were Riveted, Cheers Andrew.
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Last edited by Andrew Rowe; 18-11-20 at 18:55.
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  #14  
Old 18-11-20, 18:07
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Ed, great picture, thanks.

Chris, further to what Andrew wrote, I'd say LPOP stands for Local Pattern Observation Post. Many types of armoured vehicles were turned into OP's, e.g. Sherman and Ram tanks, but also Universal Carriers. In this case LP refers to the locally built version of the "Carrier, Wheeled, NZ Pattern Mk II"

Also see http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...137#post106137
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  #15  
Old 19-11-20, 20:23
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Just a small note. "Carrier, Observation Post" was a contract specification, meaning that Carriers were built as armoured oberservation posts. The first of them preceeding the universal carrier. (there were 95 built based on a Scout carrier) None appear to have survived. Then there was the MkII based on a riveted U.C., as was the MkIIIw (welded hull).
Just posted for clarity.
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  #16  
Old 20-11-20, 07:34
Andrew Rowe Andrew Rowe is offline
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"Just Posted for Clarity" ? I thought we were talking about Wheeled Carriers and NOT "Bren " Carriers? Cheers .
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  #17  
Old 21-11-20, 23:08
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Andrew, read Hanno's post above.
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Carrier Bren No2.Mk.I. NewZealand Railways. NZR.6.
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So many questions....
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