Oops!

[Keith Webb]

Just scanned this from a private album - no data available yet - looks like the UK.

Any deductions from the marking on the tank?

[Keith Webb]

A good opportunity for a "talk bubble" I would have thought. Perhaps we should start another caption contest...

[Ponysoldier]

Ahhhhhh I think a Ram ll. What happen to the left track?,
its gone.
ponysoldier

[Keith Webb]

Not sure what happened to it but I think if we could see a little further to the left it would probably be there all laid out nicely!

[DaveCox]

Originally posted by Keith Webb
A good opportunity for a "talk bubble" I would have thought. Perhaps we should start another caption contest...

A little "off-track" here Keith? LOL

I reckon the guy in the turret is shouting 'Oi mate - can you give us a push?'

[Ponysoldier]

Someone is in deep trouble,looks like its command track.
Is that the french tri color on side and rear I cant see
it very well.
ponysoldier

[John Tapsell]

Some thoughts:

It's a Canadian unit (obvious really with a CT serial)

The AoS looks like '175'

The 'tricolour' is actually the standard red/white/red AFV marking seen on many tanks in the UK.

It's a seaside town (sign over shop says ices and rocks)

The truck is interesting - looks almost like a Blitz - didn't somebody license build these in the UK in the 1930s?

Cheers,
John

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Originally posted by Ponysoldier
Someone is in deep trouble,looks like its command track.
Is that the french tri color on side and rear I cant see
it very well.
ponysoldier

Naw, the antennae you see are the usual 19-set A and B antennae. If this were an OP tank, you'd see double that.

As John mentioned, the red-white-red was a standard insignia which was carried through to the Mediterranean theatre, but NOT into NW Europe.

Hmmm... throwing a track in town... exciting! Given we can't see the track in the pic, he must have been going at quite a clip... even more exciting!

Given the regulation stowage (note the 1919A4 on the side of the turret) and lack of shipping stencils, it's obviously in service, not just in transit, and I suspect sometime in '43. Great pic, Keefy!

We need a 'then & now' pic! Who amongst you can identify the town?

G.

PS: Keefy, can you read that W/D number more clearly on your original scan?

[servicepub (RIP)]

Caption 1

"I know it was there when I drove off."

[RHClarke]

The CO's tendencies towards Left Flanking attacks has its consequences...

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

The white bars do look, and are positioned to be, the red/white/red recognition markings, but then why a similar white bar on the rear idler wheel? Note also the final "T" in the serial. Odd, and could it signify 'test' like aircraft that had a "G" for guard when secret stuff was on board. Is this the result of a wildly thrown track (ever seen one thrown that far?) or possibly a test of some sort?

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

I agree that the truck looks like an Opel Blitz! I know some were used by Civil Defence etc. during the war being requisitioned civilian trucks. All were imported by General Motors Limited but regrettably the Southampton Plant never did assemble any...Chevrolets (cars and trucks), possibly Pontiacs, and then in 1940 Ford & Chevrolet CMPs, Ford & Chevrolet sedans and trailers.

[servicepub (RIP)]

Originally posted by Bruce Parker
Note also the final "T" in the serial. Odd, and could it signify 'test' like aircraft that had a "G" for guard when secret stuff was on board.

I seem to remember reading somewhere at Archives that tanks which, under special authorisation, were retained for Training but which were not part of the unit's War Establishment had the letter "T" appended. There is also an "R" suffix that is seen on Churchills but I can't remember what it represents.

[John McGillivray]

The AoS 175 belongs to the Calgary Regiment (14CAR) of 1 Cdn Army Tank Brigade. They only had the Ram tanks for a few weeks in the spring of 1943. 1 Cdn Army Tk Bde was equipped with Churchill tanks up until March 1943 when they were replaced by Ram tanks. In April 1943 it was decided to send 1 Cdn Army Tk Bde along with 1 Cdn Inf Div, to Sicily for Operation "HUSKY". Soon after this decision was made the Rams were replaced by Sherman tanks.

[DaveCox]

A lot of Canadian forces were based in Sussex, and the Downs above Falmer, Brighton and Ringmer were used for tank training - some of the military roads still survive. The broad curve of the pavement and the tubular steel barrier are peculiar to a few Sussex seaside towns, especially Brighton, but why take a tank into the middle of the town?

[Richard Farrant]

Originally posted by John Tapsell
The truck is interesting - looks almost like a Blitz - didn't somebody license build these in the UK in the 1930s?

Looks like a Kew Dodge model 82, some were used by the RAF. The canopy frame and sheet appear to be of US design, not the same as British trucks used.

Richard

[Richard Farrant]

Originally posted by DaveCox
. The broad curve of the pavement and the tubular steel barrier are peculiar to a few Sussex seaside towns, especially Brighton, but why take a tank into the middle of the town?

You have to remeber that a lot of these towns did not have by-passes in those days and all through traffic had to negotiate town centres.

It looks like it could be Warmington-on-Sea, just along from the Novelty Rock Emporium

Richard

[DaveCox]

From the Operation History of the 6th Armoured (1st Hussars) with Ram IIs:

"6 Aug. 42: The regiment is moved to the Hove-Brighton area, in the Sussex region, and now becomes part of South Coast defenses. A rotating schedule is introduced. One squadron trains during 1st 1/2 of day, the second squdron during the 2nd 1/2, and the third squadron mans AA and observation posts.
29 Aug. 42: First excercise with 1st Canadian Armoured Brigade.
Sep. 42: Regiment moves around to various training centers in the area of South Downs.
Oct. 42: Training focuses on tactics.
19 Oct. 42: To Warren Camp, Crowborough. Poor terrain limits training.
7 Dec. 42: Brigade excersice boggs down in mud. Training in unditching vehicles would later prove invaluble in NW-Europe.
29 Dec. 42: Regiment moves back to the Hove area. "

Could this tank have been used in similar training exercises?
Hove has a couple of broad streets that could have been like this in wartime - have to try and find some old pics.........

[Keith Webb]

You can see by the track marks there were other tanks which turned left at this intersection.

[Keith Webb]

Although the precise location of this shot isn't mentioned, on the same reel are shots of a Blair Castle and the next reel shows pictures around Brighton.

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Originally posted by Keith Webb
Although the precise location of this shot isn't mentioned, on the same reel are shots of a Blair Castle and the next reel shows pictures around Brighton.

Sounds like a clue if I ever heard one.... c'mon guys, someone should be able to figure this out...

[John McGillivray]

I did a search on the web and found that the Calgary Regiment was in Worthing at around this time.

“Later the Regiment moved to Worthing where the Churchills were withdrawn and the unit was equiped with Rams.” (Source)

http://www.kingsown.org/kingsown/ser...y&template=ww2

“On 25 Apr, all officers of Brigade Headquarters were, however, recalled to their permanent station at WORTHING, SUSSEX, and the Brigade staff was advised that the units of the Brigade would go to Scotland for advanced training within the next week or ten days. (W.D., 1 Cdn Army Tk Bde, 25 Apr 43.” (Source para 4)

http://www.forces.gc.ca/dhh/downloads/cmhq/cmhq132.pdf

Hmmm ... which way do I blow ... which way do I blow ... Blair Castle or Brighton :

... :idea: ah what the hay ... exit stage LEFT-COAST at this inter-sec-tion ...

[DaveCox]

Originally posted by Vets Dottir
Hmmm ... which way do I blow ... which way do I blow ... Blair Castle or Brighton :

... :idea: ah what the hay ... exit stage LEFT-COAST at this inter-sec-tion ...

Blair Castle is the ancestral home of the Dukes of Atholl, in the highlands, so the pic wasn't taken there! Worthing though is a distinct possibility - cant remember the name of the road, but there is a similar looking crossroads in the current shopping centre about 300 yards from the sea!

[Gunner]

Hi All:

Having had the dubious pleasure of commanding an M113 when it peeled out of its left track at speed, I can relate to the poor crew commander's predicament. I suspect he wasn't going too fast, especially if he was about to turn or had started the turn when the track broke.

In the lower right corner of the big photo you can just make out a lump that may be the end of the track. If he came off and rolled straight ahead thats the most likely place for it to be sitting. There are no gouges in the macadam to indicate that he slewed to a stop.

As for the white bar on the idler... its highly polished steel reflecting light. The idlers on Rams were plain steel and would be absolutely gleaming after many miles of rubbing against the rubber backed track (the drive sprocket indicates that this Ram was not fitted with CDP track). T41 track (the most common on Rams) backside was metal and rubber so the idler would get well polished.

Is it possible that the CT number ends in 7 and it just looks like a "T"?

I won't even guess about the truck.

Cheers! Mike

[alleramilitaria]

thats a ram mk XXV with the ultra rare tetrarch drive system for driving on the roadway.



dave

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Originally posted by Gunner
Having had the dubious pleasure of commanding an M113 when it peeled out of its left track at speed, I can relate to the poor crew commander's predicament. I suspect he wasn't going too fast, especially if he was about to turn or had started the turn when the track broke.

I know what you mean! On a smaller scale, a friend of mine down in the States threw a track on his Universal Carrier at speed a few years ago, and without thinking calmly applied the brakes....

I have a picture of him grinning like a fool beside the carrier, which was about 45 degrees nose-down in the ditch beside the road. Oops! At least he was on a military reservation, so he got a local Engineer unit to haul him out. They helped him retrack the thing and he spent the rest of the day giving them all rides...

[Gunner]

Thank goodness my driver was very experienced... he down shifted the APC and coasted to a stop. Had he heaved on the tillers bars we would have been through the oncoming traffic like a knife through butter!

Then there was the student driver on a light track course I commanded, who was driving me through waist deep snow. Well, the snow built up in the track and slowly lifted the track so it was barely "on". I ordered 'track left' and he started a right turn... (unbeknownst to either of us the left track started to peel off) realising his mistake he pulled hard left... ever seen an M113 in deep snow with both tracks off? Four hours to get the tracks back on! And Shilo ain't that warm in January!

Keep 'em tight and drive straight ahead when your in the deep stuff!

, Mike

[Darrell Zinck]

Snicker!!

"lost a track on a 113" !! Oh my, that's funny, Mike!!

Snicker snicker!!

Anyway, I can't say it's ever happened to me in my Lynx time. 113's were "different" in many respects. They went in deep snow all right. Couldn't do that in a Lynx. We would take the Lynxs onto the Trans Canada from Pet to Cobden and get up to 50-55mph. No track breaks bur occasionally shed a track pad. That's where veh spacing comes into play as they arc up and back from the veh in front towards you. I once had a 577 up to 62mph. That was fun.

I finally pick up the book tomorrow.

regards
D

[Jon Skagfeld]

Darrell:

An M577 @ 62 kph!!!???

I'm impressed!!! ...and how long was it VOR after that episode?

BTW, HMCS Toronto was cruising up and down Lake Huron recently. She docked in at Goderich (close to Kincardine).

How come you wasn't there to pipe the boys on shore? (Ya couda seen the booger from 25 km away).