My 67 M38A1 CDN 2 and M100

mcafee · #1 01-11-09, 15:39

This is my projet this winter. I bought them 3 weeks ago now, although progress has been slow on one foot, broke an ankle at hockey, but that's a whole other thread..... The M38A1 is in pretty good shape, should be an easy restoration. Needs, brakes, batteries, front wheel bearings, and fresh paint. Other than that it should be good to roll.
The trailer is a 53 m100, CFR # 53-70236. It is in awesome shape, needs the convoy light wiring fixed, and some paint as well.
I am trying to find out anythign about the A1 though. I don't know the CAR #. The serial number is 97746, and it was delivered March of 68.

WayneR · #2 02-11-09, 03:09

That is a great looking project, it should turn out great. I have a 71 CDN3 that I am finishing off and was wondering if you had any close up photo's of the inside of the windshield showing the placement of all the hardware? Stuff like the corners where the superstructure attaches etc. Thanks and good luck, after your ankle heals I guess.

Wayne

maple_leaf_eh · #3 16-11-09, 04:15

I saw your photos and discussion on the G503 forum. (Pity I have so much trouble logging on there.)

From the looks of your Jeep let me make some speculations. It is the original semi-gloss paint. It left the service prior to the late 1970's, when camouflage paint was required colours. It has the correct turn signal switch. The canvas looks good but something suggests it is a replacement. It was probably sold off as uneconomical because the amount of parts and labour put into it reached a magical number. The term PCC'd comes to mind, but I don't think I ever knew what that meant. The guys here can run the serial number through the current DND vehicle records system (look either on the dash plate or on the right rear wheel well, near the passenger seat). Any story from the former owner?

Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP) · #4 16-11-09, 05:14

mcaffee, nice rig! I had a really nice '53 M38A1 which I used as a daily driver for more than three years 'back when', and I miss it.

Do you have a real name and location?

rob love · #5 16-11-09, 15:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by maple_leaf_eh

I saw your photos and discussion on the G503 forum. (Pity I have so much trouble logging on there.)

From the looks of your Jeep let me make some speculations. It is the original semi-gloss paint. It left the service prior to the late 1970's, when camouflage paint was required colours. It has the correct turn signal switch. The canvas looks good but something suggests it is a replacement. It was probably sold off as uneconomical because the amount of parts and labour put into it reached a magical number. The term PCC'd comes to mind, but I don't think I ever knew what that meant. The guys here can run the serial number through the current DND vehicle records system (look either on the dash plate or on the right rear wheel well, near the passenger seat). Any story from the former owner?

PCC means "provisional condemnation certificate". The uneconomical part was known as the REL or repair expenditure limit. Normally it was not used with SMPs unless they had severe frame or body damage. However I would concur that it was likely an early release or else was far off the beaten path and did not receive the modifications that were common on the. For instance the single round mirror. These were later replaced by rectangular mirrors and near the end were relocated halfway along the fenders on both sides. The turn signals were only replaced as they failed, and then were usually updated to the army solid state style flasher and the khaki plastic signal arm. This wasn't an official upgrade mind you, just one we regularly did. The camouflaging of the trucks was not mandatory either. We had one with signal sqn in Wpg which didn't see camo until it's last year of service. I even kept the original paint code decal from under the hood.

This jeep would appear to have had some body work done on the left rear corner, which is not uncommon. They were an area very prone to getting damage. I would guess at that because the seam is missing from the body, and as well several of the bolt holes appear to have been bondoed over.

I'll jot down the serial number and see what I can find on this truck. It might not be in the list if it was an early release. But for now I am going to make an uneducated guess that the serial number is 68-08479. I'll try and confirm that tomorrow.

mcafee · #6 16-11-09, 15:36

The previous owner resprayed the truck about 15 years ago. I have photos of when it left service, and it was indeed painted in 2 tone camo. After some further hunting around, the back left corner has been repaired, in one of the old photos of it,you can see where she took a bit of a hit. I know it was still in service in 83, as there is an overhaul tag on the block from Sept. 83. The previous owner bought it from the first civy owner, and thought it was sold of from the arm in 86 or so.

Geoff, real name is Tom McAfee, and I am in Tobermory, about 4 hours due north of Toronto.

Grant Bowker · #7 16-11-09, 16:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcafee

I know it was still in service in 83, as there is an overhaul tag on the block from Sept. 83. The previous owner bought it from the first civy owner, and thought it was sold of from the arm in 86 or so.

It is possible that a rebuilt motor was fitted after release from service. In this case it probably didn't happen because you have spoken with all owners between release and present.

Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP) · #8 16-11-09, 16:39

Unlikely a service rebuild would have been sold as a complete unit as the last of the jeeps were still in service back then, and civilian F-heads wouldn't have the tag. I'm betting this was the original engine rebuilt or a service replacement sometime (shortly) before the vehicle's release. Remember HMCS Bonaventure!

Tom, thanks for your info! We like to know who we're talking to, and your name could have been confused with the antivirus program...

Geoff

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grant Bowker

It is possible that a rebuilt motor was fitted after release from service. In this case it probably didn't happen because you have spoken with all owners between release and present.

Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP) · #9 16-11-09, 16:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcafee

... and I am in Tobermory, about 4 hours due north of Toronto.

BTW, you should touch base with Jon Skagfeld on this forum. He's just outside Owen Sound and has a nice M38A1CDN3.

Also, should you be entertaining ideas about parting with your trailer, talk to me first!

rob love · #10 17-11-09, 15:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcafee

The previous owner resprayed the truck about 15 years ago. I have photos of when it left service, and it was indeed painted in 2 tone camo. After some further hunting around, the back left corner has been repaired, in one of the old photos of it,you can see where she took a bit of a hit. I know it was still in service in 83, as there is an overhaul tag on the block from Sept. 83. The previous owner bought it from the first civy owner, and thought it was sold of from the arm in 86 or so.

86 is about right for the disposal. Doubtful that an 83 engine would still be around to surplus as new in 86, as there was a shelf life and a warranty involved in the rebuilt engines. There were complete engine assys sold off after the jeeps were gone, the rebuilder back then was Bennet and Hanson if I recall. The price of the complete rebuild engines was $2700 or so, just about the same price as the complete Cdn2 jeep just 20 years earlier.

I didn't have a chance to check on it today, but I will give it a shot tomorrow. The mirrors may have been a bit of a throw off as to the dates of release, particularly if the previous restorer was aiming for an earlier look. Personally, I did not like the fender mounted mirrors, and unless you put a third brace on them, they shook so bad they were useless anyway. I notice in a photo you show on another site, it does not have the HUGE turn signal flasher assembly which was original on the Cdn2. It was a box about 8X8inches on the firewall which contained a bunch of relays I think. I worked on the jeeps from 1978 until they were disposed of in 86, and most of those original signal units were long gone. The lack of it in your photo could indicate that the signal arm on it now may have also been a retrofit by the previous owner, back to the commercial type.

mcafee · #11 17-11-09, 17:51

I should get some better photos now that I have my walking cast. There hasn't been much progress on my end. I was up to Willys Acres this past Friday and picked up all the parts I need to redo the brake system.
The blinkers are a mystery to me, as they don't work at all. The rest of the lights do though. Not sure what I a going to do to sort that out yet.

Tom

edstorey · #12 18-11-09, 05:32

M38A1 67-08479 was disposed of 23 Sept 88 out of North Bay

M100 53-70236 was disposed of 08 Nov 89 out of London

ED

rob love · #13 18-11-09, 17:58

North Bay would possibly explain the lack of some of the normal mods, but then again it could have been changes by the previous owner. North Bay was a bit off the normal path for SMPs.

Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP) · #14 18-11-09, 18:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by edstorey

M100 53-70236 was disposed of 08 Nov 89 out of London

I'd like to find one of those in good shape, for a good price, if anyone knows of one. It would need to be original, as I DO have a pintle hook on my current [TJ] jeep, and preferably needing precious little further restoration because I don't have any place to work on it (I CAN sand and paint where I live).

mcafee · #15 02-01-10, 23:07

Made a fair bit of progress over the last few months. Axles rebuilt, engine tuned, all new brakes, body job, paint, new seats. etc. Still have lots of little things to do, needs new top bows, need to redo the tail lights as have the screws are broke off in the housings....

Anyways, less words more pics....
Still need to put the CFR number and other markings on her..

Jon Skagfeld · #16 03-01-10, 02:47

Looking good, McCaffee..

Ya need NDCC tyres, though.

Either you'll have to drive down from Tobermory or I'll have to drive up to you...and compare notes.

Hell, it's only an hour or so in a Jeep!

Just noticed...you also need a stencil on your bumper for ECC 121201.

mcafee · #17 03-01-10, 03:08

Hi Jon,

I am currently looking for some NDCC tires. Those are the ones that came with it. I am working on getting the markings back on it.. Haha, I think it might be a bit more than an hour to Owen Sound by jeep, unless yours goes a heck of a lot faster than my two.
I will be down to the Cruise nights this summer with it though. You should drive up for the Chicheemaun weekend car show this coming spring.
Tom

Oh ya Jon, any idea what that stencil would look like?

Jon Skagfeld · #18 03-01-10, 06:17

Stencil is 1" high bold pattern figures. Applied to right side front bumper.

If you're coming down for a Wednesday cruise night, gimme a call...I'll PM contact details.

Reference Chi Chemaun cruise night, advise timings...I'll be up there for sure the August long week-end for a Flowerpot Island Radio Club weekend.

mcafee · #19 18-01-10, 20:47

More pics as things progress. I know the top bows aren't right, bubba made them and the new ones aren't here yet. The backseat is another bubba, turns out it was a seat out of a Mutt, so I am looking for a rear seat frame.... It is fairly comfortable though, so it may stay..

Jon Skagfeld · #20 18-01-10, 21:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcafee

Hi Jon,

I am currently looking for some NDCC tires. Those are the ones that came with it. I am working on getting the markings back on it.. Haha, I think it might be a bit more than an hour to Owen Sound by jeep, unless yours goes a heck of a lot faster than my two.
I will be down to the Cruise nights this summer with it though. You should drive up for the Chicheemaun weekend car show this coming spring.
Tom

Oh ya Jon, any idea what that stencil would look like?

Tom...If you're still looking for NDCC tires, Doug at the Brian Pickett Ride Centre in Owen Sound sourced 4 new ones for me...overnight service from Quebec.Quote my name to Doug to jog his memory about the transaction.

My jeep is in storage so I can't confirm, but the tires are AST which I think is American Standard Tire...figure $225.00-$250.00 each.

Pete Z · #21 18-01-10, 22:56

Noticed in the pics that the RHS front fender on this jeep is different than the LHS in the fact that there is a "dip" in the outer edge on the right, but not the left. It almost looks like a spot for a reflector or marker light. The reason that I ask is b/c I am in the process of buying an M38A1CDN2 and it too has these apparently mis-matched front fenders. I assumed that the RHS on mine had been replaced with a civilian part, but now I'm wondering. Can sombody shed a little light on this?

BTW - I can't begin to describe how happy I was to find this forum. What a wealth of information! Should make the up-coming relationship with my M38 a fair bit easier!

mcafee · #22 19-01-10, 00:10

Pete, your right that the passenger side is different. It was replaced at some point. I know that it is cheaper to buy CJ5 fenders with the indent for a reflector, than the M38A1 fenders without. When I sanded it down, it was OD paint, so I don't know if the army replaced it like that, or if the next owner did.

Anyone else know if the army used the cheaper fenders with the reflectors?

Tom

Scott Bentley · #23 19-01-10, 01:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcafee

Pete, your right that the passenger side is different. It was replaced at some point. I know that it is cheaper to buy CJ5 fenders with the indent for a reflector, than the M38A1 fenders without. When I sanded it down, it was OD paint, so I don't know if the army replaced it like that, or if the next owner did.

Anyone else know if the army used the cheaper fenders with the reflectors?

Tom

My 67 Pattern also had a civvy right fender that was replaced while in service due to accident damage. Mine actually had a hole for a marker light in it as well.

Scotty

Grant Bowker · #24 19-01-10, 01:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Skagfeld

My jeep is in storage so I can't confirm, but the tires are AST which I think is American Standard Tire...figure $225.00-$250.00 each.

Is it possible that the tires are STA? (Specialty Tires of America) http://www.stausaonline.com/military/index.html They are the folks who made the 10.50x16 chevron pattern tires. Interesting to note that the chevron tires aren't listed on their site at the moment.

Jon Skagfeld · #25 19-01-10, 01:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grant Bowker

Is it possible that the tires are STA? (Specialty Tires of America) http://www.stausaonline.com/military/index.html They are the folks who made the 10.50x16 chevron pattern tires. Interesting to note that the chevron tires aren't listed on their site at the moment.

Absolutely correct, Grant.

jim fraser (RIP) · #26 19-01-10, 04:16

hi.in later years the mil was using off the shelf fenders from kaiser.ive had lots of them with indents on them.macfee give me a call about tires at the shop,613 623 7737,i was buying 700x16 ndt for just over the 110.00 dollar mark.regards jim.

mcafee · #27 05-02-10, 05:37

Well, finally got my M100 finished and hooked up to the A1.

Jon Skagfeld · #28 05-02-10, 06:20

Hey, Tom...I greatly admire your skill and ability to produce a great result in such a short time! $90.00 to Brian Asbury will get you a cam tarp for the M100.

Where's the drool key on my keyboard?

Are you still planning to attend cruise nite(s) at Heritage Mall in Owen Sound?

Question: Why did you register the vehicle with regular plates when you could have registered as HV for $18.00, plus about $140.00 for insurance?

Pete Z · #29 05-02-10, 16:50

Just wondering what paint did you use for your M38? Is that the semi-gloss OD that they originally came with?

On the subject of historic plates. Apparently if you have a historic plated vehicle you are only supposed to drive it in parades or to and from shows. No Sunday drives or trips to the corner store allowed. Who enforces this (law? rule? suggestion?) I have no idea, but it is the official word from the MTO.

The other thing with historic plates is that you can't get them personalized, so no matching the plate number to the CFR number of your HMV.

mcafee · #30 05-02-10, 21:20

Jon, thanks for the comments. I will definately be around the cruise nights this summer. When do they start up? Are you planning on coming up to Tobermory for the Chicheemaum weekend car show, there is usually 100 plus cars.

I went with the reasons Pete said for the regular plate, and I pay less than 140 for insurance...

Pete, I went with a flat Olive drab that I had access to. Not quite right, but I like the flat look more than the semi gloss, plus it doesn't show every little dent and ding as bad...