Calling Phil Waterman....

Bob Carriere · #1 17-01-07, 17:17

Bonjour mon ami....

Where are you with the rebuild of your 261....??

What size oil lines/holes are in your block???

Bob C.

Phil Waterman · #2 18-01-07, 19:46

Hi Bob

I've got both the 261 and the 235 all cleaned and ready to go to the rebuild shop. Hope to get them over there next week.

The 261 oil lines are "BIG" I'll go out to the shop and measure them to get the size.

Cheers Phil

servicepub (RIP) · #3 18-01-07, 22:27

Quote:

Originally posted by Bob Carriere

What size holes are in your block???

Sounds like a very personal question. No wonder Phil doesn't want to rely.

Bob Carriere · #4 19-01-07, 02:59

Sorry Phil...... some guys only have one hole in mind!!!

Will get you Tuesday Clive.....

Boob

Phil Waterman · #5 19-01-07, 22:40

Bob- If the engine you are looking at has small oil line fittings I think that it is either a 235 or if a 261 it is not the late 261. Take a look and see if one of the oil lines dumps straight back inside the block. (See picture of 235) On the engine that I know is a 261 both of the oil lines are huge nominally 24/32ns diameter you will see that one goes to the oil passage that travels down the side of the block while the other comes directly from the oil pump fitting inside the block. (See Picture 261)

Bob Carriere · #6 20-01-07, 04:24

....no indians....

Good photos Phil as usual....

According to David Hayward the serial ## denotes a Windsor built 261 late 1962..... will look for the cating date on the block this weekend when I get to look at it again.

No arguments that the larger holes are from larger HD trucks in the 6000 series... 5 tons... and those are full flow....

Here is a manual picture and will follow up with my actual engine...

Bob Carriere · #7 20-01-07, 04:42

Similar to Phil and the shop manual.

I have since connected the oil lines to the dual filters and got 42 pounds of oil pressure using a 3/8 electric drill driving the pump from the dissy hole...... at the same time truning the engine over with jumper cable with plugs removed... spins real good.

Bob Carriere · #8 20-01-07, 04:59

My best guess Phil is that on a 261 the oil comes out of the lower left hand side hole directly from a passage from the oil pump.... up through the filter and back into the oil galley on the upper ridge right hand side.....

Now on a by-pass system of the 235 it comes out of the right hand side pressurized oil galley....volume controlled by line size... to the by pass filter out of the filter to the bottom left hand side hole that drains into the block.

Upon careful examination of your pictures there are some differences in the ridges hidding the oil galleys ... smaller on the 235 and larger on the 261.

STEW.... wake up.. we need pictures of your "puny" little holes in your 261... origin unknown.....

I am convinced the block I have been shopping for is a 261... has Captians bar above starter.... casting block number matches the 58-62 sequence in GM records... and serial number tells it is Windsor made...... need to read the casting date for month year...

Meanwhile here is another shot of my engine showing the dual spin-on filters.....

Stewart Loy · #9 21-01-07, 01:04

Quote:

Originally posted by Bob Carriere

STEW.... wake up.. we need pictures of your "puny" little holes in your 261... origin unknown.....

Bob ( or is it Nacho? ),

I hope all is well despite your extra large holes(s).

I pulled the plastic wrap off my unit and had a peek out in the garage, and I am happy to confirm that I have small(ish) oil line holes.

Here is first snap. I took a black marker and coloured the plugs in the block black to make them stand out.

Stewart

Stewart Loy · #10 21-01-07, 01:09

BooBee,

Here is a shot of the distributor side of the 261 - captains bars and all.

When I found this engine ( 15 minutes away from home ) I checked the serial number and the block and head casting numbers. My rebuilder mechanic confirmed it as a 1962 vintage 261 inch Chevrolet with 235 heads. He indicated that this engine combo was a common pairing back when I was a toddler to give the Canadian Pontiacs ( and the other Chebby guys who needed more cubes ) a bit more beans to pound the Ford heads flat.

If I can keep up my feverish pace the 6 will be in the frame next Saturday. keep those pix coming, as all of my teardown pix were stolen when my computer vanished last February ( note to self - back up files!).

Stewart

Phil Waterman · #11 21-01-07, 17:34

Hi Guys

Here are a few more detail photos on my 261 which from the casting number 3769925 is 1959 to 1962 CHEVROLET TRUCK. It has the BARS behind the starter. The top photo shows the engine as removed from donor truck, the second shows the distributor side not the blank serial number boss by distributor, third show that no numbers were ever stamped in, the forth picture show the alternate serial number location under lip of valve cover. The serial number
Doesn’t make any senses, this is the second engine that I’ve encountered an engine with no real serial number. I speculate that this may mean that these were replacement engines or short blocks.

Phil Waterman · #12 21-01-07, 17:38

The system really doesn't like me today keep getting error messages.

Try once again to post the 3rd and 4th pictures

Bob Carriere · #13 22-01-07, 17:20

Phil

Blocks with no serial Numbers are usually replacements parts...or stolen...????

...on your other salvaged block... the 235...did it have an oil filter set..... I am asking because it also came from a larger truck..... wondering if it was full or by-pass.

Have you ever been tempted to keep the synchro tranny from the large truck........ is it feasible to fit to the transfer case with the resulting short space between the tranny output and the transfer case...... no more gear grinding sound s attractive.....

We have now taken possession of a alledgedly fully rebuilt 261 which we can now examine to our hearts content. Grant, the owner, is planning to remove the engine from the frame and at least remove the pan and a few cpas to make sure the rebuild was done properly..... at that point we will clearly establish it oil flitering capacity/system.

Keep trucking....

Phil Waterman · #14 22-01-07, 17:40

Hi Bob

As in both cases the distributor boss where the number should be was clean machined so I don’t think the engines were stolen, besides who would steal Chevy engine. So I suspect that the two were replacements.

Now as to the 235 see the picture the oil filter was bypass as it came off the end of the oil passage and then dumps back into the block through the side port that just dumps into the sump.

As to the transmission they are physically longer than the original CMP this might be made up in the short shaft.

Bob Carriere · #15 22-01-07, 17:56

Good picture Phil..... it clearly shows the difference of the 235.... the outlet is the top rhd one from the oil galley and the return is open to drip in the pan.......

... the 261 has the outlet from the pump is the lower lhd hole goes to the full flow filter and his piped in back to the top rhd hole which is the main oil galley....... opening the pan on Grant's 261 should show clearly how the oil is pumped to the filter assembly...... meanwhile we may just fit a small bypass oil line with clear vinyl hose and prime the sucker with a drill to see if we can get oil on all the bearings and top end.

when you reach that point, let us know how the 261 water pump will fit and whether an Hay-dapp-ter plate will be mandatory .....

HOw short can a connecting drive shaft me made an still retain the sliding joints/spline.....???

Bob