Daimler Ferret Restoration - Canadian Service

[Neil Smith]

In June of 2013 I thought I needed a project to fill up my spare time so I bought a Mark 1 Ferret that was ex Canadian Army from a guy here in the USA. My previous experience of vehicle restoration had been a 1956 Triumph Tiger T110 motorcycle, back in the 90's.

I decided to start this restoration thread because it has been 15 months since it arrived at my home and I wanted to share some of the experiences with anyone else that is crazy enough to need a project to fill up their spare time

Well, to tell you all the truth, there's a lot more to vehicle restoration than I thought. I learnt that there are a lot more systems that can go wrong, so you cannot just change the oil and spark plugs, squirt a bit of easy start in the carb and then tear off round the street in a 4 ton vehicle

I learnt that you really have to tear it all down to ensure that the brakes are going to work, that the fuel tank is sound, that the tire rubber isn't perished etc. etc.

I also learned that an armored vehicle has very heavy parts and I'm not as strong as I was before I turned 50! Try taking all four wheels off by yourself - that's a workout that the wife doesn't understand when you are complaining about just how sore some of your muscles are. She thinks your pulling a fast one to get off the home improvements list.

Anyway, I would strongly recommend you get a partner to work with you if you are attempting a restoration - preferably one who's in great shape, strong as an ox, limber as a leopard and with small hands to get into those fiddly spots.

Ok, for those of you who are laughing at my whining, the truth is that I have actually done quite a lot of work and have enjoyed nearly every minute of it.

So what have I accomplished so far? Well, I have finally stripped the interior and removed the engine and gearbox.

And what a good thing it was that I pulled the engine as here is a sample of the brake lines tucked under the rear bevel box where you could not see the damage

I'm going to end this post here so I can see if it comes out the way I intended.

[Neil Smith]

OK, looks like I got the pictures and text sorted out so to continue on a positive note I have met a lot of interesting folks that have helped me along the way and this and HMVF forums have been very helpful with information.

It can all be a bit overwhelming when you start by stripping one piece only to discover that you really need to go even further until eventually you discover that you are running out of space to store all the parts. I'm fortunate to live in sunny Florida so in my case the space problem was solved by moving the cars out of the double garage and parking them in the driveway - the Wife was understanding of this . She wasn't very understanding when I told her I needed to spend a large sum of money on a split unit air conditioner as my garage was unbearably hot in summer and my work output dropped

SO some lessons learnt so far:

Lesson 1 - there's no such thing as a simple restoration - it will end up being a complete restoration

Lesson 2 - You need a partner as you are not as young as you used to be.

Lesson 3 - Make sure you have a large enough working and storage place for your project - one that's useable all year round as time is precious.

[Neil Smith]

Here's some of the fun stuff - sifting through the dirt, slime and general filth that comes out from the hull. I took some pictures of the remnants found in the ferret - things that were jammed against all the working control rods adding to the friction !

Nuts, bolts and washers -



Ammunition and links



Odd bits and pieces



Coins



And beer bottle tops!

[Mrs Vampire]

all those bits and pieces deserve a glass display case of their own

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by Neil Smith

Here's some of the fun stuff - sifting through the dirt, slime and general filth that comes out from the hull. I took some pictures of the remnants found in the ferret - things that were jammed against all the working control rods adding to the friction !

Odd bits and pieces

Hi Neil,
The short chain with a split pin at each end is the safety pins to stop accidental release of side escape hatches. Essential !

regards, Richard

[rob love]

Usually there is a ratchet hiding in the hull, or at least a wrench or two. A rule of thumb in the ferret is what goes down usually stays down, at least until the next engine change.

[Lynn Eades]

Neil, I would liken your step from the motorbike to the ferret, as stepping from a bicycle to the space shuttle. (not a technology step, but a difficulty step)
There is a lesson in all those nuts and bolts in the hull. What you drop is gone!
Like working on a bulldozer. Did you not find any tools?

Edit. after posting I see Robs post re tools etc.

[Neil Smith]

It will probably be six months before I post again on here - this is a one day wonder!

Here are some pictures of some sheet metal parts that I have had rebuilt. The first picture is of the indicators. My ferret came with the typical later militia modification using US lights "scabbed" on to original light towers. I have chosen to go back to the light tower indicators and rebuilt the originals.



I took great pains to keep the section of plate that had the FV number on it



The next picture is of rebuilt antenna bases. These had been cut up to fit a later US style antenna base, but as I'm restoring to a late 60's Larkspur era, I restored them to fit the correct type of Larkspur mounts ( You can source NOS Larkspur bases from Tim Vibert in Australia).





Thanks to Colin MacGregor Stevens booklet on "The Ferret Scout Car in Canadian Service" I have seen a picture of the pattern of camouflage used by the Ft Garry Horse while in West Germany in the late 60's and as mine was one of the Ferrets sent by Canada to West Germany, I am now seeking more information or colored photographs of what appears to be a four color pattern. Can anyone help with this?

[Neil Smith]

Lynn, no tools found, but buckets full of good Canadian top soil!

[Robin Craig]

Dear Neil,

great progress your making, I envy you in sunny Florida as we approach another winter and I still don't have a garage.

I would suggest, that despite my dislike of the social media, joining the facebook pages of the unit associations that your vehicle served with may lead to some unexpected finds as far as history goes.

I'm not sure about the light tower change, but it is your vehicle after all.

FYI Militia is a term we use for the reserve part of the army.

I am very glad that you decided to do the right things and tear the vehicle down and found that brake line issue. I have been preaching that for a long time, start from a known baseline.

I assume you made up your own lifting frame for the pack removal.

R

[Neil Smith]

Richard, thanks for identifying the escape catch chain thingy. This ones a bit corroded but it will be a simple job to make up a new pair for my hatches.

Robin, good advice as always - I will look up the Fort Garry Horse on Facebook as well as the 8th Canadian Hussars.

I'm a bit confused - obviously about the use of the term militia wrt the Canadian forces. Post 1972 when the Ferrets in Germany were returned to Canada, I understood that they were sent to reserve units. I was using the term militia to refer to them being in a reserve unit - is this not the proper term?

Regarding the light towers, they were clearly fitted to my ferret by the Canadian Army and later modified to have the US style indicator lights fitted. I am speculating that as I have seen pictures of a few other Canadian service ferrets with these light towers that they may have been fitted while in service in Germany as they would have been common with British Army ferrets serving in West Germany around the early 70's. Pure speculation on my part and hence them not being standard with other Canadian ferrets.

I used the excellent drawings in the various manuals to make both the power pack lifting bar and the gearbox lifting frame. The bar is down with the motor in storage but I took a quick picture of the gearbox lifting frame.

[rob love]

The militia thing can be confusing, and in the case of units like the FGH, even more so. The reason being is that in this case, there was a regular force FGH and a militia FGH. The regular force FGH was reduced to nil strength in 1970 as part of the Liberal era force reduction.

The regular force had the ferrets, as well as the centurians. Most likely they had the Lynx too.

In the 70s there were occasionally loans of thingd like ferrets or Lynx to the militia units for them to train on, but those units would not have had them as part of their normal strength. For the most part the light recce militia had been relegated to using M38A1 Jeeps as their main vehicle.

The installation of the US pattern of lights was fairly common on the ferrets, although not on any mod instruction that I ever saw. As to those light towers, they were for the later style of lighting on the ferrets. Most likely, replacement parts for the ferrets ended up being the later pattern. It would have been the regular force that installed those lights, and likely so they could have turn signals. The militia had very little effective maintenance, aside from 3 or 4 regular force mechanics supporting each area. Having been one of those myself, I can tell you it was a challenge. So many vehicles, and so many unqualified operators.

There was also a modification to replace all the British style fire extinguishers with the Ansul extinguisher. As well, I recall seeing the old singnal stat turn signal arm mounted in the ferrets. I don't believe the early Mark one ferrets came with signals originally.

[Neil Smith]

Yesterday I finished stripping the interior of the hull with the exception of the wiring harness. I'll get to that later. Looks like I'm going to need to replace a number of the studs on the floor as some are missing and some are damaged by corrosion.

What do you guys do to replace studs? I have read up on what a stud welder is, but don't have one and will need to see who does. Alternatively, can you drill through the armor and weld in a bolt? Any advice will be appreciated.

Here's some pictures of the typical canadian jerrycan holder that was fitted, I'll have a go at repairing it while I gather information on the stud replacement.

[Robin Craig]

Dear Neil,

grand work and even better photos to document what you have and are doing.

I would say that there is no hard and fast rule on Canadian Ferrets and to be honest on any military vehicle for that matter.

The vehicle you have is full of differences that should be enjoyed and cherished.

Ad Rob Love says many things were done with no reference to "orders" or "'rules". It was all part of what worked for that unit or that vehicle that week.

My Canadian Ferret c/s31 had jerry can stowage on the rear but instead of a frame like yours mine used the SMP gas can holders and the loops for the web straps were welded to the top of the rear armour. There are many variations and anomalies and that is what gets confusing.

Do what you feel right for your vehicle.

As far as the studs needing replacement I think I may TIG weld my own in place. I don't think drilling the armour will be an option. Talk to a local welding company about a stud welder, it isn't something beyond learning how to use.

I'm about a year behind you.


Grand job.

R

[rob love]

As Robin says, do not drill through the floor. The tool that I saw listed in the CFTOs was basically a piece of brass roundstock drilled and tapped to accept the stud. As well, the end was tapered. You could then get in to the base of the stud and weld it in. I am planning to make up a few of these of various thread pitches and simply MIG them on.

Ideally I think you are supposed to heat up the armour a bit before welding so the weld does not crack away from the armour plate as it cools. I hope to be doing some of these this week, so I'll let you know how it goes. Primarily it will be the studs for the fenders to hull.

[chris vickery]

When I used to work for our plant we did a lot of stud welding.
Basically, the stud welder was a hand held trigger device with 3 protruding prongs
Which was the ground once placed firmly on the plate. In the center there were different changeable bushings which held both a weld stud and a flux ring depending on thread size.
When the trigger was pulled, current would flow through the stud to the steel plate for a predetermined time while the flux ring would shield and clean the area similar to how flux works on an ordinary welding rod.
As far as I know, the machines we had were made solely for this purpose. Perhaps some company makes an adapter to use an ordinary arc machine?
When I am on a field job, sometimes we need to replace studs we simply use a machined up stud which has been chamfered and arc weld in place. The only issue with this is the fact that we are talking large diameter of 1/2" plus.
I think I would opt for Robin's suggestion of tig welding smaller studs in place, at least this way you could at least obtain the correct filler rod to ensure a good clean weld. Alternatively, I suppose a couple quick hot tacks with a might setup and the correct wire and gas would also work.

[Neil Smith]

I've been distracted for the last few weeks, earning a living is getting in the way of my restoration

However, I have made some progress on the engine. It would not turn when removed but after some gentle persuasion with "Marvel Mystery Oil" and a lot of patience I have it turning over by hand and the compression in all cylinders is good. I thought I'd show you a picture of the engine test bed that I have made.

Now I've decided to use the switchboard and instrument cluster with the test bed. So the second picture is of the stand in which they will sit along with the batteries and fuel tank. My intention is to be able to run the complete unit out of the ferret so that I can test all the systems and address leaks prior to installation. Robin, you can see the engine lifting bar lying on top of the engine.

[jdmcm]

Little welding tip Neil on the armor plate....use a 307 stainless mig wire, mild steel wire will cool too fast and crack...learned this the hard way welding on the AVGP Cougar

John

[Neil Smith]

Thanks for the tip John. I managed to find a stud welder that I can borrow. It will handle up to 1/4" studs, so anything bigger will need to be welded with a mig.

[maple_leaf_eh]

The coin could not have gotten into the Ferret before 1960 (more likely 1961), and that was probably in Canada.

Labatt 50 is now sort of an old man's beer, in its day there were only two brands worth drinking. Labatts 50 and Molson Canadian.

Are those .22LR empties?

Finally, what is the headstamp on the blanks? I'm guessing DA.

[Neil Smith]

The cartridges are all stamped IVI which I believe is canadian manufacture from the Montreal area.

No .22 blank cases.

[maple_leaf_eh]

Originally Posted by Neil Smith

The cartridges are all stamped IVI which I believe is canadian manufacture from the Montreal area.

No .22 blank cases.

IVI is the old Dominion Arsenals (DA) plant between Valcartier base and the city of Quebec. They made $hit ammo for the longest time.

[Neil Smith]

I don't remember what the brass/copper looking things were, I'll dig through the bag later this week and see if I can ID them. Did you notice what I assume are military buttons next to them? I'm guessing they are from the uniform of the driver. Can anyone confirm the period from which that button would be?


I top a second look at the pictures after posting this and the brass/copper thingy is actually a female electrical connector.