CMP trucks used by US Forces

[Al Nickolson]

I found this photo at;

http://picasaweb.google.com/Randyand...canCoOpOrgSACO

Japanese occupied China, 1945, NGC, Sino-American Co-op Org (SACO)

Regards, Al

[Ryan]

Hi Al, your link doesn't work for me. Anybody else having the same trouble?
Intriguing photo though.

[Al Nickolson]

Try

http://picasaweb.google.com/RandyandBelleSmith

Japanese occupied China, 1945, NGC, Sino-American

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Thanks Al, excellent find!

Hanno

[Ryan]

Yes, that worked Al. Fasinating pictures.

[Colin Macgregor Stevens]

Very neat photo!

The US Army used Canadian Army trucks, Universal Carriers etc. in the Phillipines in 1941 after they were diverted from going to Hong Kong. All were eventually lost to the Japanese I believe.

[Brian Gough]

Currently on eBay there are 2 interesting photos of US Army Air Force CMP Fords, identified as "Rover Truck", both from the same seller.

1. Rover Truck - USAAF - Tunisia - Original Photo
Item number: 270343983267
http://cgi.ebay.com/ROVER-TRUCK-USAA...ayphotohosting

------------------

2. AAF Mobile Canteen Truck - Tunisia - Original Photo
Item number: 270343992900
http://cgi.ebay.com/AAF-MOBILE-CANTE...1%7C240%3A1318

I have no connection with the seller.

Brian

[cletrac (RIP)]

That's interesting as I didn't realize that the US used any CMPs. The one that's stuck is a 2 wheel drive Ford F15 with ID829720 stenciled on the front bumper. It has the 2B1 box which would make it a 1942 model.
The canteen truck is an F60 serving under the Delta Service Command, whatever that is. It doesn't have a roof hatch which is a little bit unusual for the time period but then a canteen truck at an air force base might not need it's own aircraft protection.
You can tell they're both Fords by the push bar setup. On the F15A you can also see the Ford horn and the shape of the grille emblem.

Why won't it let me post the pictures?
I was using my Firefox browser and it wouldn't show the Manage Attachments button so I tried my Netscape 9 browser and there it was. That's hard to figure!

[gordon]

In the US Government scheme of things, Service Commands were organisations that took over military / admin duties in an area when the units that were based there were posted overseas, things like recruitment and family admin and so on.

I ran across them as so many of the old interesting Dodges left in the USA were oddbal military types or civilian used by the military, in Service Command setups. Both my WC36 trucks were 8th Service Command based in Fort Sam Houston, Texas.

They covered the whole of the US and Alaska, I wasn't aware they existed outside the continental US but it might make sense if this was the admin organisation for, say, the Nile Delta area or whatever was the Tunisian equivalent?

[Keith Webb]

Just came across this interesting image on Facebook of a USN registered C15A in India. Looks like a local wooden body too.
Caption identifies the person in front of the truck: PHM1c Don Kerns

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Keith Webb

Just came across this interesting image on Facebook of a USN registered C15A in India. Looks like a local wooden body too.
Caption identifies the person in front of the truck: PHM1c Don Kerns

Keith,

I merged it with an earlier thread featuring the same truck. Glad to see this subject brought back to our attention: an wooden-bodied CMP in US Navy service in China - how rare can it get?!?

Caption according to link in first posting reads: "Smith in F15 Polsten Lorry and PHM1c Don Kerns in front of US Navy Hospital, X-Ray unit on sign".

H.

[Keith Webb]

Thanks for doing this Hanno!
Must be a function of age, repeating things! As you can see the original caption mis-identifies the vehicle model.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Keith Webb

Thanks for doing this Hanno!
Must be a function of age, repeating things! As you can see the original caption mis-identifies the vehicle model.

Not sure if you had seen it before, but somehow I recalled seeing that C15A with US Navy markings on MLU (yes, I should get a life ).

It opens a whole new - to me - chapter on WW2; I have just read a little more about the Sino-American Cooperative Organization on Wikipedia. Pictures I have found till now show US-built vehicles only, so how they came about a CMP will probably remain a mystery.

H.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

While looking for something else, I ran across this picture captioned:
"A Ford truck is parked next to a wrecked USAAF truck, North Africa (probably), 1942-43"

Source: http://ww2online.org/image/ford-truc...obably-1942-43


Plus the ones above from the same source:

"United States Army Air Forces Chevrolet truck, with enclosed cab and door with a pick up-sized box for cargo, which is stuck in the sand. Servicemen are standing near the rear of the truck. North Africa (probably). 1942-43"

Source: http://www.ww2online.org/image/unite...obably-1942-43


"Box body-type truck, probably a Chevrolet, with words on it that read "U. S. Army Air Force Mobile Canteen Service, Post Exchange Service, Delta Service Command." A serviceman is standing near the passenger door. North Africa (probably). 1942-43"

Source: http://www.ww2online.org/image/us-ar...obably-1942-43

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Two pictures of the same Ford F8 8-cwt:

"Serviceman and a United States Army Air Forces Chevrolet truck with enclosed cab and door with a pick up-sized, covered box for cargo. See also 2009.278.446. North Africa (probably). 1942-43"

Source: http://www.ww2online.org/image/servi...obably-1942-43

"Close up view of a United States Army Air Forces Chevrolet truck with enclosed cab and door with a pick up-sized, covered box for cargo. "War scenes. Checked 6/28/00 L. Air." See also 2009.278.445. North Africa (probably). 1942-43"

Source: http://www.ww2online.org/image/chevr...-probably-1942

[Hanno Spoelstra]

And then some:

"Many United States airmen, some wearing life jackets, climbing onto, and sitting in the bed of, a 2- ton truck/CCKW. North Africa (probably). 1942-43"

Source: http://www.ww2online.org/image/many-...obably-1942-43


"American truck convoy in a desert. "Horace Greely 'Go west, young man.' 12th G[rou]p convoy, Western Desert, Africa [19]43."
"'Go West young man.' Greeley. 12th G[rou]p on the move in the Western Desert of Africa. 1943." North Africa. 1943"

Source: http://www.ww2online.org/image/ameri...th-africa-1943

[Hanno Spoelstra]

If one searches for Ms. Patricia J. Williams site:ww2online.org, there is a host of interesting pictures to be found.

They were apparently made by Lloyd Anthony "Frenchie" Rogers who was assigned to the 434th Bombardment Squadron where he served as a crew chief on North American B-25 Mitchell bombers. He served in this capacity from McChord Field, Washington to Esler Field, Louisiana and to North Africa throughout the battle of El Alamein, Sicily, Italy, and the China-Burma-India (CBI) Theater of Operations.

Enjoy!
Hanno

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by Al Nickolson

I found this photo at;

http://picasaweb.google.com/Randyand...canCoOpOrgSACO

Japanese occupied China, 1945, NGC, Sino-American Co-op Org (SACO)

Regards, Al

The cab pictured is a Canadian built cab, but while perusing the AWM registers, I found notes referring to at least 2 Australian built C15A trucks transferred to the US Navy.

It seems they got them from a variety of sources!

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Tony Smith

The cab pictured is a Canadian built cab, but while perusing the AWM registers, I found notes referring to at least 2 Australian built C15A trucks transferred to the US Navy.

It seems they got them from a variety of sources!

Indeed, the one pictured in "Japanese occupied China, 1945, NGC, Sino-American Co-op Org (SACO)" is a Canadian-built chassis/cab, fitted with a body in India.

The ones you are referring were Australian built and supplied to the US Navy in Australia. Great find, BTW!

Guess they were sourcing (even scrounging) their vehicles locally, wherever they sailed and needed vehicles to do their business?

H.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

While looking for something else, I ran across this picture captioned:
"A Ford truck is parked next to a wrecked USAAF truck, North Africa (probably), 1942-43"
Attachment 100674
Source: http://ww2online.org/image/ford-truc...obably-1942-43

Ford F15 CMP 15-cwt truck with mine damage next to an Indian Pattern Ford MCP 3-ton truck, somewhere in the North African desert.
The F15 was in service with the USAAF, note the USA recognition star on the roof. The Ford MCP has a British roundel on the top and the front of the hood.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Seeing these photos begs the question why the USAAF was using CMP trucks in North Africa.

From the photo captions above we learn that Lloyd Anthony "Frenchie" Rogers (born on 16 May 1914 at Patterson, Louisiana) was assigned to the 434th Bombardment Squadron where he served as a crew chief on North American B-25 Mitchell bombers. He served in North Africa throughout the battle of El Alamein, Sicily, Italy, and the China-Burma-India (CBI) Theater of Operations.

From August 1942 to June 1943, the 434th supported the British Eighth Army as they advanced into Tunisia and later participated in the invasion of Sicily and Italy. The list of stations where the 434th served from in North Africa shows they were more often than not co-located on RAF bases.

Possibly, supporting the 8th Army and doing joint operations with the British, it could be they used their infrastructure much like in the UK? That could explain they got a number of CMP trucks assigned to them.

PS: the official listing of the 12 Operations Group (AETC) on the US Air Force Historical Research Agency does not show much more light on this matter: https://www.afhra.af.mil/About-Us/Fa...ns-group-aetc/

[Mike Cecil]

Hanno,

USA Services of Supply were supplied with hundreds of vehicles by the Australian government. These ranged from 10 hp 2-seat cars to large staff cars, and many trucks including CMPs. They were not free issue, but added to the Reciprocal Lend Lease (RLL) account at specified values. Same goes for the specialised vehicles built specifically for US forces, such as the S1 armoured car based on a CMP 15 cwt. Shipping was at a premium: made sense to obtain as much as possible as close to the battle front as possible.

These were all registered under the various schemes operated by the individual US service: USN, US Army and Air Force. When the draw-down of US Forces in Australia started to occur from about late 1943, many were returned to the Commonwealth and credited against the RLL account at an agreed value based upon condition.

Not many people realise that lend-lease was a two-way street, and that Australia provided a value of something like 75% of the total value of LL equipment provided to Australia, back to US Forces as RLL.

Mike

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Thanks Mike,

I was first made aware of that via one of the articles in Wheels & Tracks magazines.

Lend-Lease included supply not only of materiel (equipment) but also supplies of other resources like food and oil. It went both ways, as you say, although by the end of WW2 most countries had a deficit on their loan, so to speak.

So I am not surprised to see Austin K2 Ambulances of F15 HUPs on USAAF bases in the UK, or USAAF personnel driving Utes in Australia.

In this case it is about the use of equipment in theatres other than home operating bases. The fact that the USAAF unit listed above was supporting the Eight Army likely meant that vehicles were supplied by the British as the USAAF could then rely on their POW and spares supply lines.

Have you seen the USN CMP in China at the top of this thread?

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Ford F15 CMP 15-cwt truck with mine damage next to an Indian Pattern Ford MCP 3-ton truck, somewhere in the North African desert.
The F15 was in service with the USAAF, note the USA recognition star on the roof. The Ford MCP has a British roundel on the top and the front of the hood.

USAAF roundel: white star on blue circle

[David Dunlop]

Hanno.

On the Indian Pattern MCP in the last photo, is that the front of a wood slat stake box protruding out either side of the cab? It almost looks like the width of the wood box exceeds the width of the fenders on the cab, and the section of box sticking out on the left side of the cab looks quite distorted. Could this MCP also be a damaged vehicle pushed up beside the CMP to get it out of the way?

David

[Hanno Spoelstra]

David,

I think you are right. The front bumper on the MCP truck is crooked. It is not “parked”, no one would park it that close to a wrecked truck. They must have been shoved/ shunted together as only two wrecks would be.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

Not many people realise that lend-lease was a two-way street, and that Australia provided a value of something like 75% of the total value of LL equipment provided to Australia, back to US Forces as RLL.

More on Reverse Lend Lease:

Two-way Street

As an example of reverse lend-lease, the British have provided our forces in England with articles, equipment, facilities, and services necessary to the maintenance of an army on foreign soil.
In addition to articles and equipment, our men receive services and facilities from the British, including all United Kingdom communication, all transportation within the United Kingdom, and all heat, power, light, water, and gas used by the Army. The British do not inquire into the need for articles and services requested. They take the word of the American supply officer signing the requisition. The only considerations are those of availability and the effect on the British war economy.

Britain is not self-sufficient in foodstuffs. Yet the British have given us important quantities, and a few troops are supplied 100 percent from British rations. The remainder-on American rations-have their diet supplemented by fresh British home-grown vegetables, and by bread, tea, chocolate, candy, cereals, sugar, and many other items from British stocks.

Joint Planning
During the preparation of the African expedition, the British delegated two of their ranking supply officers, and their entire staffs, to the United States Service of Supply headquarters. The British said that they would supply any required article or service which was not readily obtainable from American stocks. They met our requests with great swiftness. Among other things, we received over 3,800 tons of ammunition, artillery for a United States division, 80,000 tons of coal, over 2,000 tons of British rations, and 30,000 tons of engineer equipment. Shortly before the expedition was launched, it was discovered that American planes destined for Africa required somewhat different radio equipment from that being used in the United Kingdom. The RAF stripped themselves to meet our need, turning over to us every last piece of radio equipment of the type proved to be satisfactory in the Middle East.
Necessary civilian personnel has been made available to us without stint. It has been estimated that as much as two-thirds of the civil and military labor available for military work services in Great Britain has been employed on work for the American Army as reciprocal aid.

Cranes and Dinghies
Here is a list of some of the articles and equipment received by our forces under reciprocal lend-lease:
Concrete mixers, cranes, flame throwers, hangars, huts, lumber, pile drivers, railroad equipment, bakeries, blankets, camouflage, clothing, clothing repair supplies, soap, tents, towels, warehouse equipment, cable-laying equipment, switchboards, automobiles, explosives, grenades, torpedoes, various types of harbor, assault, and combat boats, airplanes, defrosting and de-icing materials, parachutes, dinghies, gas detectors, eyeshields, and incendiaries. In short, the British have obligated themselves to deliver, and have delivered, to United States forces in the European theater, everything which could be made available.
Lend-lease in reverse has become an important reality sooner than many anticipated. It has become an integral part of the war of alliance-all for one and one for all. Outgoing lend-lease-goods and services from us to our allies-has grown from a trickling stream to a torrent since those critical March days of 1941. The flow of war supplies from the factories to the fighting fronts proceeds without being impeded by considerations of finance. Lend-lease in fact has fulfilled the President's original pledge to remove the dollar sign from war supply.

Read more here: https://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA...One/index.html