Normandy 2004

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Now's the time to talk about it, because - believe or not - space reservations are being gobbled up fast.

SUNRAY MINOR and myself will be going to England on the 25th of May next year, straight-away to Southampton where we'll encamp for Richard Notton's OVERLORD show the following weekend. On these special occasions, this is the jumping-off point for Normandy (as it was one 60 years ago), and we'll be headed there with the lads on 04 Jun. Is anyone else going, and if so, what arrangements have you already made? We'll definitely have to coordinate.

This is probably one of the last times you'll ever see the vets in situ, so it isn't to be missed if you can at all attend.

[Nigel Watson]

Had planned to take my Dingo to Normandy next year but according to the MVT over here the French aren't allowing any armour on their roads. So thats scuppered that, so I'll either be hitching a softskin lift or doing Arnheim later perhaps preceded by the Ursel Show.

Contigent of Scots vehicles set off tomorrow for Ursel show! Not going.

Nigel

[Ian McCallum]

Geoff,

Returned yesterday from our second Group recce to Normandy in preparation for 2004. As Secretary of the Norfolk Military Vehicle Group I was 'fine tuning' our accommodation needs for 31 vehicles and 76 participants. We have secured substantial ferry discounts via P&O so first task was to establish our transit route from Cherbourg down to Litteau (on the Bayeux St. Lo road).

We started planning in August 2002 and that was not early enough. All of our previous or preferred accommodation sites as you say had already been gobbled up, so we made a physical first recce into the area in April this year. Have now secured a camp site with 'bring your own camp gear', pre-erected tents, chalets, and mobile homes + three bed and breakfast type accommodations in close proximity. Camp site will be our HQ as it has an all important bar! Believe me if you have not booked already it is going to be tight. When speaking to the Tourist information in Bayeux they had only one place left on their books for next June 6 week!

There is now a 'Normandie Memoire 60 Anniversaire' publication out which is issued by a Committee responsible for events. They also have a website on which they will update info. as available as some localities have not yet finalised their involvement, or things are changing.

Web address is: www.normandiememoire.com
e-mail: info@normandiememoire.com

During this trip we were also 'sowing the seeds' with localities and trying to establish our participation in events. Suffice to say we have got the grounding for a good full week of events which I will happily furnish when complete. On the negative side these are mainly events organised by the French locals for veterans or supporting official events but the current programme makes no reference to formal attendance events, hopefully attended by the correct level of royal family of approriate governments representation. However if the 50 anniversary is anything to go by the programme we are proposing will keep us clear of the areas that were 'no go areas' on the 6th. June.

We are quite nicely sited within an hour of any of the beaches and many of the more inland sites where the real battles for Normandy took place. I personally would not like to be part of the 'official MVT tour' based at Falaise who have significant distances to travel even to reach the extremity of the British sector! For those in the majority with American interests its a hike of 2 hours plus, even cross county, to reach any of the sector sites.

Ian

[Snowtractor]

it is my plan to go to the 2004 anniversary , but I have no plans firmed up at this time. How many other Canadians are going?
Sean

[Nigel Watson]

Ian need a stretcher bearer for Normandy!!!!!!

Nigel

[Ian McCallum]

Originally posted by Nigel
Ian need a stretcher bearer for Normandy!!!!!!

Nigel

Afraid my 'casualty' is long past the expertise of a Casualty Clearing Station!. Still surprised however that decomposition has not yet set in!

Speak to you more at Scone, assuming I recieve entry information prior to leaving the sunny south.

Ian

Originally posted by Nigel
Had planned to take my Dingo to Normandy next year but according to the MVT over here the French aren't allowing any armour on their roads. So thats scuppered that, so I'll either be hitching a softskin lift or doing Arnheim later perhaps preceded by the Ursel Show.

That's not necessarily true; sure the French in an uncharacteristic bout of following the EU party line are banning the ownership of armour for French nationals, however, what is legal in your nation state of the EU is legal in France.

Here in England we are "still" allowed armour and so we can take it to France. Ask the MVT directly.

R.

[Danny Bosma]

R.

That's not always true.
For example : Ownership of a deactivated machine gun is in most EU countries no problem what so ever. But within the Netherlands it's heavily restricted and strict regulations are made.

Now although you can own and carry such a piece in your country you cann't enter the The Netherlands with it without prior arrangements. Would you do it you risk confiscation and jail.

Knowing that would you risk to take Armour into France given the situation ??

Is there anyone out there who actually knows what is going in France regarding this subject ??
Then I would like to hear it as nobody seems to be able to tell exactly what is allowed and what not.

Cheers,

Danny Bosma
The Netherlands

Originally posted by Danny Bosma
R.

That's not always true.
For example : Ownership of a deactivated machine gun is in most EU countries no problem what so ever. But within the Netherlands it's heavily restricted and strict regulations are made.

Now although you can own and carry such a piece in your country you cann't enter the The Netherlands with it without prior arrangements. Would you do it you risk confiscation and jail.

Knowing that would you risk to take Armour into France given the situation ??

Is there anyone out there who actually knows what is going in France regarding this subject ??
Then I would like to hear it as nobody seems to be able to tell exactly what is allowed and what not.

Cheers,

Danny Bosma
The Netherlands

The last and recent contact with the MVT itself suggested that the French ownership ban was just that, for French nationals. Obviously each member nation can apply different rules.

Those booked to go with the MVT have been cleared by the French authorities, it may be helpful to ask the MVT direct for some background information.

The only people who do actually know (allegedly) what is going on are the French themselves, why not ask them directly ? This would seem sensible for people visiting individually and not under the umberella of a recognised national body on an organised tour.

R.

[Nigel Watson]

Originally posted by FV623
That's not necessarily true; sure the French in an uncharacteristic bout of following the EU party line are banning the ownership of armour for French nationals, however, what is legal in your nation state of the EU is legal in France.

Here in England we are "still" allowed armour and so we can take it to France. Ask the MVT directly.

R.

Hi Richard
I did contact the MVT direct and was told that they are not taking any armour on their official tour and advised me not to take any either and risk it being impounded. So I'll restrict it to the great countries of Holland and Belgium and of course England....not forgetting Wales and Ireland!!! Gees...have to be so careful these days!!! and me with armour too!

Nigel

Originally posted by Nigel
Hi Richard
I did contact the MVT direct and was told that they are not taking any armour on their official tour and advised me not to take any either and risk it being impounded. So I'll restrict it to the great countries of Holland and Belgium and of course England....not forgetting Wales and Ireland!!! Gees...have to be so careful these days!!! and me with armour too!

Nigel

Well, I'd wish they'd make their mind up and sing off the same hymn sheet. They are also doing their best to sink one of the most important MVT Areas in a bout of thoughtlessness but you'll have to wait for the story to unfold in "Windscreen", if they print it that is.

Can't say too much just now.

R

[Nigel Watson]

My sentiments also Richard. Different folk whistling different tunes from the same whistle!! What a din!

Can't wait for the Windscreen to see what's been happening. Missed you lot at Beltring, didn't take my carrier.

Nigel

[Danny Bosma]

Originally posted by Nigel :
My sentiments also Richard. Different folk whistling different tunes from the same whistle!!

I am going to call the MVT as well but who did you speak with ?
It would be handy to know who said what and when.

Cheers,

Danny Bosma

Originally posted by Danny Bosma
I am going to call the MVT as well but who did you speak with ?
It would be handy to know who said what and when.

Cheers,

Danny Bosma

Rex Ward. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

R.

[Nigel Watson]

Originally posted by Danny Bosma
I am going to call the MVT as well but who did you speak with ?
It would be handy to know who said what and when.

Cheers,

Danny Bosma

I spoke to Colin Smith who is the MVT Normandy Tour 2004 Tour Administrator. His email is normandy.tour2004@ntlworld.com

Nigel

Originally posted by Nigel
I spoke to Colin Smith who is the MVT Normandy Tour 2004 Tour Administrator. His email is normandy.tour2004@ntlworld.com

Nigel

Also,
colin.smith14@ntlworld.com
We were being told the MVT tour was full some months ago, I hope you have managed to find space.

We have had our confidence a bit shaken here and I am dismayed to have been somewhat rudely dismissed by the MVT Vice-Chairman in an unwarranted manner.

I apologise for the following explanation but it contains a serious point for us in the UK; just to remind you, and it has been published, a change in the UK vehicle law last year saw one simple line quietly removed from the statute books with the effect that your vehicle, even off-road and not road registered, must carry third party minimum insurance where the public "have a reasonable right of access". That sounds like any MV show or other event to me.

Now, we were slightly miffed about the MVT ("Central") supported Kemble Show this year, the entry instructions stressed the absolute necessity to carry vehicle insurance and present this for scrutiny to gain entry to the show, without this you would be placed and not permitted to move at all for the duration. We all thought this a bit high-handed since the law and police here allow you 7 days to produce documents.

It gets worse, the Ballards have previously worked for years on light aircraft restorations and as a throw-away line mentioned that no vehicle insurer here covers you on an operating airfield, its a standard industry exclusion. I checked all the different _policies_ here, yup, sure enough hidden under "other general exclusions" you find the "Airside clause", I'd urge anyone to look very closely at theirs.


I emailed the MVT as below:

Now here's an interesting thing, you might want to quietly check.

As the SD is checking papers at Kemble perhaps bear in mind it is as it says in Para 3: "Please be aware that Kemble is an active airfield and therefore. . . ."

Now my chums who have been in light aviation for years professionally tell me that if you read your insurance small print it is the industry standard that the policy is void whilst within the curtilage of an operating airfield.

This small nuance is the bane of all airfield workers who drive to work apparently, it seems all aircraft, light medium and heavy, are not to be wholly trusted to do what the pilot commands.

Hmmmmmm.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Then I sent:

>
> Now my chums who have been in light aviation for years professionally tell me
> that if you read your insurance small print it is the industry standard that the
> policy is void whilst within the curtilage of an operating airfield.
>
Further to that please see the purple printed booklet from the excellent and cheap Footman James that the MVT sensibly promote: Page 18, para 1, fourth indented block.

Nobody will be moving anything then ?
__________________________________________________

So Colin replied for the MVT and my responses below:

Richard,
Everyone is busy as hell right now what with the Show and proper jobs, so back to me, again.
>
I know that feeling well.

>
The paragraph (I am told) refers to the restricted area in or on airports or airfields. We are not in or on any restricted area.
>
I take your point but I wouldn't like to argue it out with the insurers in court. They would likely refer to the area denoted by the land registry, if this is called XYZ airfield/aerodrome/airport and is operational then in the insurers usual way they would duck it.

There is a broader issue worth noting here, when you go to an air show, even Farnborough, the vehicle is uninsured. We have people here who are regularly invited to Goodwood and are asked to pose period vehicles with the parked aircraft; I'm sure they are in an iffy situation.

I have checked the other popular MV insurer - Roadsure; their (KGM) policy states:

"8. The underwriters shall not be liable for any accident,injury, loss, damage, consequential loss or any liability of whatsoever nature whilst the insured vehicle is in or on that part of an aerodrome, airport, airfield or military base provided for the take off and landing of aircraft or the movement of aircraft on the surface, aircraft parking aprons including the associated
service roads and ground equipment areas or those parts of passenger terminals of an international airport which come within the customs examination area."

Worth reading the above twice, slowly.

I did actually dig out my car policy from Royal Sun Alliance, same stuff.

>
The person who is best to refer any queries to is Alan Cogdell (MVT Treasurer) who I am sure will be able to help you on almost all insurance matters .
>

Sure, I wonder how many of us have actually read the fine print though and come to grips with the real inferences.

>
We, the MVT, have been organizing professionally run shows for many years now, and based on that experience, have put together what we consider the right rules and regulations in the interest of the members and the compliance with outside
suppliers of services.
>

I have no doubt, however, the firm statements made in the Kemble info is causing some reasonable grumbling. People do not take kindly to their club acting overtly more severely than the Police do and is required by English law. You can reasonably expect some comment at the show from some quarters I'm sure.

>
Look forward to seeing you at Kemble, if you are still going that is,
considering your e.mail!
>

Oh, Good Heavens, we're far more liberal than that. In fact I must run and finish strapping stuff in the Stalwart, truck arrives at 07:00 for us tomorrow.
__________________________________________________

Then I get this back:

> Good,
>
> Please forward all to Alan, I certainly have not got the time, or
> inclination, for all this nick picking, glad you are going to the Show.
>
Colin,

Sorry to have apparently trodden on some toes, I too generally have little time for the minutia which leads to waves of ennui, however, I would respectfully suggest the insurance companies see it somewhat differently and will rely on the exact detail of the written word.

Please also recognise this demand for production of papers is not of my making and would seem also to be quite generally held as nit-picking too.

Many thanks.

R.
__________________________________________________ _

Well, I regret taking up so much time of the MLU people to plod through this but:
a. I personally consider the legal requirement for insurance to be quite important.

b. I take exception to receive a quite insulting reply to what is actually a serious matter, I would have expected better from the MVT Vice-Chairman.

c. Be quite aware that when you (UK) go to an airshow in your car to say Farnborough, Biggin Hill, Duxford, Fairford or whatever then the moment you leave the public highway you are totally on your own and wholly uninsured both from others or against them.

d. Getting an "opinion" of the policy statement from the broker is worthless, when the poo hits the fan the insurers lawyer will invoke the formally printed policy word. Bet on it.

R.