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  #1  
Old 17-01-23, 01:30
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Default Museums Victoria photo archive

SEC Weapons Carrier ?


BAKER MOTORS Albury: opposite Hoyts. Hoyts was a cinema chain.

Note: Chevs 25 Pounds extra ! Wow


https://collections.museumsvictoria.com.au/items/761922

https://collections.museumsvictoria.com.au/items/762198

https://collections.museumsvictoria.com.au/items/762199

https://collections.museumsvictoria..../items/1469829

https://collections.museumsvictoria..../items/1469615

https://collections.museumsvictoria..../items/1469612

https://collections.museumsvictoria..../items/1469533

https://collections.museumsvictoria..../items/1714788

https://collections.museumsvictoria..../items/1689010

https://collections.museumsvictoria..../items/2097033

https://collections.museumsvictoria.com.au/items/763846

https://collections.museumsvictoria..../items/1469594

https://collections.museumsvictoria..../items/1469520

https://collections.museumsvictoria..../items/1469519

https://collections.museumsvictoria..../items/1469603

https://collections.museumsvictoria..../items/1833015

https://collections.museumsvictoria..../items/1919253

https://collections.museumsvictoria..../items/1813067

https://collections.museumsvictoria..../items/1484805

https://collections.museumsvictoria..../items/1484805

https://collections.museumsvictoria..../items/1469509

https://collections.museumsvictoria..../items/1469164

https://collections.museumsvictoria..../items/1469507

https://collections.museumsvictoria..../items/1469431

https://collections.museumsvictoria.com.au/items/764014

https://collections.museumsvictoria.com.au/items/772061

https://collections.museumsvictoria.com.au/items/792178

https://collections.museumsvictoria.com.au/items/792179

https://collections.museumsvictoria.com.au/items/760515

https://collections.museumsvictoria..../items/1755011

https://collections.museumsvictoria..../items/1755015

https://collections.museumsvictoria..../items/1469598

https://collections.museumsvictoria.com.au/items/771920

https://collections.museumsvictoria..../items/1819815
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Bakers-Albury.jpg   baker2.jpg   Baker3.jpg  
__________________
1940 cab 11 C8
1940 Morris-Commercial PU
1941 Morris-Commercial CS8
1940 Chev. 15cwt GS Van ( Aust.)
1942-45 Jeep salad

Last edited by Mike Kelly; 19-01-23 at 06:30.
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  #2  
Old 17-01-23, 11:33
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Default Baker

Mr. Baker inspecting his Tanks

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/a...er%20Motors%22

Australian built Cruiser tanks sold as scrap in 1946. Just a couple of years before 1946, all of the effort, research and manufacturing cost and it's thrown away as junk in such a short time. Madness. Were these tanks deemed to be obsolete in such a short time ? The buyer was selling crated Cadillac engines as disposals parts - these were probably spare Cruiser tank engines.
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baker4.jpg   baker5.jpg  
__________________
1940 cab 11 C8
1940 Morris-Commercial PU
1941 Morris-Commercial CS8
1940 Chev. 15cwt GS Van ( Aust.)
1942-45 Jeep salad

Last edited by Mike Kelly; 18-01-23 at 02:23.
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  #3  
Old 18-01-23, 11:03
Jakko Westerbeke Jakko Westerbeke is offline
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Kelly View Post
Australian built Cruiser tanks sold as scrap in 1946. Just a couple of years before 1946, all of the effort, research and manufacturing cost and it's thrown away as junk in such a short time. Madness. Were these tanks deemed to be obsolete in such a short time ?
Yes. The Sentinel was mostly inferior to tanks like the Sherman, and even the Grant and Lee in some ways. At the same time, any country that wanted tanks in 1946 could pretty much get as many Shermans as they liked, thereby also benefitting from the large amounts of spare parts available for them, unlike for the Sentinel. So, Australia had no need of Sentinels itself and no countries to sell them to either. Might as well just about give them away to anyone who thinks they have a use for them.
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  #4  
Old 18-01-23, 12:40
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Default training

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakko Westerbeke View Post
Yes. The Sentinel was mostly inferior to tanks like the Sherman, and even the Grant and Lee in some ways. At the same time, any country that wanted tanks in 1946 could pretty much get as many Shermans as they liked, thereby also benefitting from the large amounts of spare parts available for them, unlike for the Sentinel. So, Australia had no need of Sentinels itself and no countries to sell them to either. Might as well just about give them away to anyone who thinks they have a use for them.

You would think the Govt. could have put the Cruisers in storage or used them for training rather than scrapping them so quickly. The drawings for the manufacture of spare parts would have been available . I guess spares for the Cadillac engines would have been an issue ? Another thing is the small number that were built was probably why they decided to declare the type as surplus to needs. The Grant/Lee was thought of as being obsolete in some circles but they kept the diesel powered version in service until the mid 1950s I think.
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1940 cab 11 C8
1940 Morris-Commercial PU
1941 Morris-Commercial CS8
1940 Chev. 15cwt GS Van ( Aust.)
1942-45 Jeep salad
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  #5  
Old 18-01-23, 18:03
Mike Cecil Mike Cecil is offline
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Default Baker Bros

The 'as new' Cadillacs must have been those taken out of the tanks the Baker Motors purchased. They also advertised engines at 100 pounds each. Since they purchased over 30 AC1 tanks, that's more than 90 engines to sell. Crating the engines for interim storage and sale makes sense.

The new, unused Cadillacs were sold by the CDC for the flat rate of 150 pounds each.

Not one AC1 tank was ever completed to the staqe of being a reliable, combat-ready tank.

My take on the story of the development and demise of the Aust Cruiser tank is in the book design phase with Trackpad Publishing at the moment. Should be available in the next couple of months.

Mike
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  #6  
Old 19-01-23, 03:27
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Default Great

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Cecil View Post
The 'as new' Cadillacs must have been those taken out of the tanks the Baker Motors purchased. They also advertised engines at 100 pounds each. Since they purchased over 30 AC1 tanks, that's more than 90 engines to sell. Crating the engines for interim storage and sale makes sense.

The new, unused Cadillacs were sold by the CDC for the flat rate of 150 pounds each.

Not one AC1 tank was ever completed to the staqe of being a reliable, combat-ready tank.

My take on the story of the development and demise of the Aust Cruiser tank is in the book design phase with Trackpad Publishing at the moment. Should be available in the next couple of months.

Mike
Great , should be a good read !

I was mislead by this film of the AC1 tanks actually driving around. The army or somebody must have cobbled a few AC1 tanks into running condition for the Dept. of Information movie cameras and the visiting 'dignitaries' including Bob Menzies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzJ8mflCXQU
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1940 cab 11 C8
1940 Morris-Commercial PU
1941 Morris-Commercial CS8
1940 Chev. 15cwt GS Van ( Aust.)
1942-45 Jeep salad
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  #7  
Old 19-01-23, 03:53
Mike Cecil Mike Cecil is offline
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Default E series

Nice piece of footage. Several famous faces. Those are two of the Experimental series tanks, E1 with the big fake barrel and E2 with a 2-pdr, being demonstrated for the big wigs at Fisherman's Bend in early 1942. E1 retired hurt with a broken track. There were three AC-E series tanks built before the production run of 65 AC1 tanks.

Most of the 65 production AC tanks were assembled and drivable by the close of the project, but far from reliable or combat-ready. I'd like to think the book covers the subject in sufficient detail - it's about 100,000 words supported by 430-odd images. The ultimate judgement of that will be the readers, of course, but I've done my best.

Interesting to see a camouflaged Mortar carrier amongst the swarm of AFVs.

Mike
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  #8  
Old 19-01-23, 07:06
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Default Sad end

Sad end to WW1 aircraft.

Can anybody ID the 4 bladed aircraft in the background ?

https://collections.museumsvictoria..../items/1602920
Attached Thumbnails
photo-of-aust-war-museum-planes-and-bombs-417928-large.jpg  
__________________
1940 cab 11 C8
1940 Morris-Commercial PU
1941 Morris-Commercial CS8
1940 Chev. 15cwt GS Van ( Aust.)
1942-45 Jeep salad

Last edited by Mike Kelly; 19-01-23 at 12:24.
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  #9  
Old 19-01-23, 11:15
Jakko Westerbeke Jakko Westerbeke is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Kelly View Post
You would think the Govt. could have put the Cruisers in storage or used them for training rather than scrapping them so quickly.
I suspect they felt that storing tanks costs even more money, while selling them for scrap metal at least brings back some of the investments. Never underestimate beancounters …

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Kelly View Post
The drawings for the manufacture of spare parts would have been available
But who would want to tool up to make those parts if there are warehouses full of Sherman spares in the USA and elsewhere?
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  #10  
Old 19-01-23, 12:27
michaelkoudstaal michaelkoudstaal is offline
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Cecil View Post
Nice piece of footage. Several famous faces. Those are two of the Experimental series tanks, E1 with the big fake barrel and E2 with a 2-pdr, being demonstrated for the big wigs at Fisherman's Bend in early 1942. E1 retired hurt with a broken track. There were three AC-E series tanks built before the production run of 65 AC1 tanks.
All three if you look closely. Most of the footage is E1 and likely an incomplete E3, the one right at the end with no antennas or tool bins is probably the E2 being babied a bit as it was supposed to be sent of for gunnery trials the next day so you wouldn't want to break it.
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  #11  
Old 19-01-23, 17:06
Mike Cecil Mike Cecil is offline
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Default E1 & e2

Cannot agree, Michael: check the driver's hatch design for verification. This is E1 and E2. E3 was still being built at Eveleigh when this demo took place.

Mike
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  #12  
Old 20-01-23, 11:15
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Default https://collections.museumsvictoria.com.au/items/1469617

https://collections.museumsvictoria..../items/1469617

https://collections.museumsvictoria.com.au/items/775817

A side note: I spotted somebody selling four of these 4.2 inch Mortar rounds at the swap meet I was at recently , they were packed in their shipping box. The seller had a sign explaining how they were first used at El Alamein
Attached Thumbnails
truck-parking-area-420975-medium.jpg   unloading-mortar-bombs-for-scrap-aug-1948-9781-large.jpg  
__________________
1940 cab 11 C8
1940 Morris-Commercial PU
1941 Morris-Commercial CS8
1940 Chev. 15cwt GS Van ( Aust.)
1942-45 Jeep salad

Last edited by Mike Kelly; 21-01-23 at 13:01.
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  #13  
Old 20-01-23, 11:47
michaelkoudstaal michaelkoudstaal is offline
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Default

That is what the records say, E3 wasn't complete on that day. But there's three different looking tanks being driven around. You might explain away the loss of the partial sand shields, and the track guard toolbins, as simply "bits falling off" over the course of the run, but the antennas too? It's not like they're driving under trees or anything. I think they've been told to put on a show and while E3 wasn't finished it might have been drivable and that's what's in the film. I don't know that I'd put money on it, but that's what it looks like.
Click image for larger version

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Name:	E2.JPG
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ID:	132370

Last edited by michaelkoudstaal; 24-01-23 at 05:55. Reason: Removed incorrect ID
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  #14  
Old 21-01-23, 07:12
Mike Cecil Mike Cecil is offline
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Default E1 and E2 but not E3

Hi Michael,
We seem to be hijacking Mike K's thread here, but what the heck: Hanno will hive it off if he thinks it is inappropriate.

The three images:

E1 - agreed.
E2 - agreed. note that the short stretch of film has no other vehicles visible. This short section of film I suggest was taken on an earlier date, prior to the fitting of the items you point out. Also note the prominent forward-opening hatch on the driver's position, painted white on the inside face - a salient feature of E2, as E1 never had the hatch cover fitted to the opening, and E3 had a very different hatch design that did not fold forward.

E3- this is E2 on the day of the event, with the additional fittings. Note the big, white drivers hatch visible in the open position, just under & forward of the MG armoured housing. E3 did not have a forward opening driver's hatch: it had access via a double hatch on the flat above the driver's head.

Two other features to consider: E3 left Eveleigh fitted with Mk.2 suspension brackets, and the aerial mounts were on angle brackets welded one to each side of the turret, not on the back as on E2. The image you are saying is of E3 has Mk.1 suspension brackets and no angle bracket for the aerial on the turret side, but on the turret back as for E2.

Regards

Mike

Last edited by Mike Cecil; 21-01-23 at 07:47.
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  #15  
Old 21-01-23, 12:12
michaelkoudstaal michaelkoudstaal is offline
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Default

Gotcha, I've been led astray by tricky editing in of old footage. I'd thought I'd never seen a proper photo of E3, but from your description I'm pretty sure I know the one, but for clarity, it has what looks like unusual turret ring side protection, or something similar, fitted?
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  #16  
Old 21-01-23, 17:08
Mike Cecil Mike Cecil is offline
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Default E3

Yes, Michael, the image you refer to is E3 and the unusual turret ring protector is a trial fit using a piece of timber to show what it would look like.

Mike
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  #17  
Old 22-01-23, 03:41
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Default Melbourne Police cars

circa 1942


https://victoriancollections.net.au/...62f11c4432ce3e

https://victoriancollections.net.au/...62f11c4434e05b

https://victoriancollections.net.au/...62f11c889bf7e2

https://victoriancollections.net.au/...62f123684818ae

https://victoriancollections.net.au/...62f11c889c3177
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pol1.jpg   pol2.jpg   VictorianCollections-large.jpg   VictorianCollections-large (1)mon.jpg   VictorianCollections-large (1)99.jpg  

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1940 Morris-Commercial PU
1941 Morris-Commercial CS8
1940 Chev. 15cwt GS Van ( Aust.)
1942-45 Jeep salad

Last edited by Mike Kelly; 22-01-23 at 09:39.
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  #18  
Old 22-01-23, 09:42
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https://victoriancollections.net.au/...62f11c44390418

https://victoriancollections.net.au/...62f11c443789be

https://victoriancollections.net.au/...62f11c4437f5d4

https://victoriancollections.net.au/...704ed38a6f70b3

https://victoriancollections.net.au/...ea670f609a25d4
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VictorianCollections-large (1)coupe.jpg   VictorianCollections-large (1)merc.jpg   VictorianCollections-large (1)fl.jpg   VictorianCollections-large (2)anni.jpg   VictorianCollections-large (2)humb.jpg  

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Last edited by Mike Kelly; 22-01-23 at 09:57.
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Old 22-01-23, 10:02
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https://victoriancollections.net.au/...ea671e9c9398dc

https://victoriancollections.net.au/...ea690fc0d91d93
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Last edited by Mike Kelly; 22-01-23 at 10:13.
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Old 22-01-23, 10:17
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https://victoriancollections.net.au/...ore-collection

https://victoriancollections.net.au/...ea6b0f605b3b50

https://victoriancollections.net.au/...ea6d07bc1bc59f

https://victoriancollections.net.au/...ea670f40cd6e80
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1941 Morris-Commercial CS8
1940 Chev. 15cwt GS Van ( Aust.)
1942-45 Jeep salad

Last edited by Mike Kelly; 22-01-23 at 10:36.
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  #21  
Old 22-01-23, 10:41
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https://victoriancollections.net.au/...ea670f40c1b33a

https://victoriancollections.net.au/...ea6d14ac092a93

https://victoriancollections.net.au/...ea671378b75e77
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1940 Chev. 15cwt GS Van ( Aust.)
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Last edited by Mike Kelly; 22-01-23 at 11:11.
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Old 22-01-23, 11:14
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https://victoriancollections.net.au/...69f50f7c48433c

https://victoriancollections.net.au/...69f50f7c483f79
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1942-45 Jeep salad

Last edited by Mike Kelly; 22-01-23 at 11:22.
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