New Canadian Sniper Rifle..

[Alex Blair (RIP)]

Forces award Canadian sniper rifle contract
OTTAWA, May 26 /CNW Telbec/ - The Department of National Defence has
awarded PGW Defence Technologies Inc. a $4.5-million contract for the
provision of sniper rifles. The Winnipeg-based company will provide the
weapons system, training package, ammunition, spare parts and maintenance
support as part of the contract, signed May 13, 2005.
"As stated in the new Defence Policy, the government is committed to
providing new equipment to the Canadian Forces, assuring they can operate
effectively in today's challenging security environment," said Defence
Minister Bill Graham. "This contract is an example of how we are modernizing
our equipment with the assistance of Canadian expertise."
"This weapons system, one of the most accurate sniper rifles in the
world, is a part of our commitment to improving Canadian Forces capabilities
and equipment," said General Rick Hillier, Chief of the Defence Staff.
This medium range sniper weapon is 8.6mm (.338 calibre) and has a range
of 1500m - almost twice that of the C3A1 rifle it is replacing. The new system
includes the rifle, magazines, telescopic sight, stand, and carrying case.
Canadian Forces snipers from across the country trialed the rifle at
Canadian Forces Base Gagetown and were impressed with its performance. It was
also tested at the Canadian Forces Munitions Experimental Test Centre in
Valcartier, Que.
The Canadian Forces will begin taking delivery of this small arms system
in August 2005. It will be used by Regular Force infantry units across the
Army, in both training and operations.



For further information: (613) 996-2353/54, After hours: (613) 792-2973,
World Wide Web: http://www.forces.gc.ca

[Jon Skagfeld]

Hmmm...

.338 cal, 8.6mm round...another Logistics nightmare for re-supply.
I wonder whose Liberal riding this contract went to?

Effective out to 1500m, you say...Hey, what about the Sniper rifle used by our Canadian troops in the Middle East which picked off bad guys at a much greater distance, actions for which our troops were recommended for US decorations, but were turned down by our Canadian government?

This is not progress, in the sense of upgrading our Canadian Forces equipment and capability. Being a Conservative hawk in most military posits, I'm just waiting for the anti-war, left-lib usual idiots to declaim this procurement as an offensive gesture of the current government.

Vent/rant over.

So, how goes it in the rest of the Colonies?

[rob love]

I have had occasion to deal with PGW, and the two guys who run it are first rate. They have brought their rifles out to Shilo on some of the sniper matches and usually win. We are also fortunate to have some very ardent shooters/collectors in the LCMM positions for the weapons these days, and their choices are not arbitrary. It is recognized that the Lapua round will be an oddball cartridge but for the anount of rounds that snipers will fire in ops, it shouldn't be too hard to keep up with the demand.
PGW produces top rated competition firearms and it's nice to see the company get this contract. The only thing I worry about with a contract of this size going to a smaller scale producer is what happens to them after the contract runs out. Too often I have seen a DND contract result in the kiss of death, as a company expands to meet the commitment and then does not find enough work to sustain it afterwards. Also, one second of misfortune on the two primary guys can result in the death of the company, and consequently no long term support for the aquisition.
As to the .50 cal sniper rifles currently in use (in conjunctoin with the old C3) you can't always be dragging around the boheamoth of a 50 cal rifle and it's spare ammo around. The Lapua was destined for this role for a while now.
Prairie gun works was located in St.Boniface (Winnipeg) Manitoba, and I'm not sure what the political affiliation with that area is,but I think they are/have moved to a larger facility.
In the case of PGW, I believe that it is the quality of the firearm that won out over the size of the company, the non-std military cartridge, and any political locations.
They have a website hwere you can see some of their wares: http://www.pgwdti.com/

[Craig Tanner]

Just a couple of points regarding the new MRSW (medium range sniper weapon) 338.

There will be no logistical nightmares, as we will be buying 338 now, instead of 7.62 match ball.

There are 2 sniper weapons that the sniper detachment have at their disposal. The 338 that is now replacing the worn out C3, and the MacMillan TAC .50 (.50 Cal, Long Range Sniper Weapon or LRSW) which was used in Afghanstan in the story you spoke of. Both are superior, new to newer weapons which definitely has Canadian Snipers fielding more capabilities on operations, which is one of the aims of the current Army transformation.

The snipers that I have talked to, see the cup half full not half empty in this instance, a welcome step in the right direction.

Craig Tanner
Oromocto N.B.

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally posted by Craig Tanner
The snipers that I have talked to, see the cup half full not half empty in this instance, a welcome step in the right direction.

Having flash backs of 1 RCR Recce are we Craig ..........


"The Eyes and Ears of the Battalion" ..... to bad we're "Old, Blind and Deaf" now.....

[Craig Tanner]

Mark my old friend.....Yes! blind indeed, however some are older than others....... not meaning that you are older or anything like that..... any way they were not all bad flashbacks!! And speaking of flashbacks from Recce.... do you ever see Buzz Gomes around? If you do please say hi to him for me.


Take care

Craig

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally posted by Craig Tanner
Mark my old friend.....Yes! blind indeed, however some are older than others....... not meaning that you are older or anything like that..... any way they were not all bad flashbacks!! And speaking of flashbacks from Recce.... do you ever see Buzz Gomes around? If you do please say hi to him for me.


Take care

Craig

Hi Craig;

I'll pass on your regards to Buzz tomorrow, he'll probably be at the Assn AGM or in the Mess.

Cheers

[Snowtractor]

I can see the advantages to having both weapons . 1500m is still substantial and in bush , more than you need with a long range tap on the shoulder available should open space be found. Not to mention urban environments etc etc and the need for the bullet to stop sometime after hitting its soft target. The .50 is boss for punching through lightly armoured defenders and across valleys like it did in Afganistan . Just like my garage , different tools to fit the job, not Just one big hammer to do them all

My question is, does the DND use its snipers solely in one role, IE specialist with the .338 and specialist with the .50 or do they crosstrain and become equivalent snipers in both weapons? If so does the sniper have 2 weapons assigned to him, leaving one in the closet so to speak, or does he draw the weapon he needs when assignment is looming?
Sean

[Craig Tanner]

Sean!

The Canadian Army Sniper is extremely talented in both the C3 and the MacMillan Tac .50, and soon the 338. The weapons, are as you thought, mission specific tools and the mission will indicate which weapon(s) they will take. Without going into great detail, the snipers formally train on the weapons at the various formal sniper courses they attend. When not on formal course, the sniper will undergo constant unit training in shooting, field craft, etc, to maintain and enhance their basic skills especially on all of the sniper weapons.

Craig Tanner
Oromocto N.B.

[Snowtractor]

well that would explain that. As a gun enthusist , shh did I say that?, I can see the sense where they would be proficient in more than one weapon. But seeing sense in civilian life doesn't always transpose on to military ideals. I sure wish I had half the ammo to shoot , they do.
Thx for the reply
Sean

[Alex Blair (RIP)]

Originally posted by Snowtractor
well that would explain that. As a gun enthusist , shh did I say that?, I can see the sense where they would be proficient in more than one weapon. But seeing sense in civilian life doesn't always transpose on to military ideals. I sure wish I had half the ammo to shoot , they do.
Thx for the reply
Sean

Sean
Here is some info on the .338..
http://www.custer.com.au/Lap/pages/338Hist.html
I agree with you on the proficiency on all models..I can remember an afternoons shooting with a couple of lads from the Queens Own Rifles..On the pop up range at Wainright..
After the familiarization and qualifiying course on small arms for our junior ranks ,we fired the FN until the forstock was smoking and too hot to hold onto...
Of course we had to retreat to the Sgts mess to get medical attention by wrapping our blistered hands around many cold ones...
That is how you get to be proficent(In both shooting and beer drinking)...unlimited practice,once you know the basics..

[Snowtractor]

afford targets so we had to use the beer cans. A twofour of those and your aim was steady and true. Yup, never missed a shot after a few drinks
Sean

Originally posted by Jon Skagfeld
Hmmm...

So, how goes it in the rest of the Colonies?

I'm busy colonizing don't interrupt me with silly questions Cap'n-S-Suh.

[cmperry4]

Just for the record, PGW is on Marion St. in St Boniface, the francophone community of Winnipeg, which has virtually been a "yellow dog" Liberal riding ever since a Tory government hanged Louis Riel. (Although the Tories have taken it a few times). Current MP is a LIberal, Raymond Simard, a junior cabinet minister.

But as Rob L suggests, the firm got the contract on merit, and I'll go with that.

[servicepub (RIP)]

I had the opportunity to put some ammo down-range at the 2002 Sniper Concentration in Gagetown. While there I fired several of the Mid-Range Sniper Rifle trials rifles, including the PGW offering.
All of the rifles were impressive and, as I was not a trial officer, or qualified in any way to pass judgement on the merits of any one competitor, I won't. Enough to say that the Life Cycle Materiel Manager (LCMM) is extremely well qualified. The competition ran 2 1/2 years before the PGW was announced.
As to PGW, I have dealt with this company for several years and hold them in high regard on a professional level.
The .338 Lapua will be no harder to supply than Match grade .50 - which is still needed because the Mid-range .338 is supplementary to the Long-Range .50
I think that our snipers will be pleased to be so well equipped.