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  #1  
Old 25-02-16, 01:51
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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Default Wireless Set No 52 Canadian Production

Is anyone familiar with the production history of this Wireless Set?

It was an offshoot of Marconi Canada's efforts to improve the Wireless Set No.9, which had resulted in so many improvements/changes, the initial production was redesigned the Wireless Set No. 52 Canadian. What puzzles me is the ID plates used on the four major components: Receiver, PSU, Transmitter and Coil, Aerial Tuning Unit. In particular, the receiver.

The main set receiver has an ID plate on the front of it identifying the item as: Receiver, Wireless Set Canadian No. 52.

Somewhere years ago, I have seen a remote receiver assembly with an ID plate on the front of it showing either, "Receiver Remote, Wireless Set Canadian No. 52" or, Remote Receiver, Wireless Set Canadian No. 52".

The remote and main set receivers are virtually identical in design and can apparently be swapped out for one another with no problem.

In the past year or two, several remote receivers have showed up for sale in different locations on the internet and all of them are completely lacking in data plates. Screws can be seen on the front panel blanking out the holes where the data plate would normally be attached. Not sure if this represents, a production change, or is simply a result of post military service souvenir hunting, or perhaps a shortage of receivers at some point so remote units were put into service in main sets and the ID plates removed to avoid confusion.

Not sure how many 52 Set experts are out there compared to the 19-Set and others, but thought I would toss it out in case somebody has information to share.

Cheers,


David
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  #2  
Old 25-02-16, 09:17
Bruce MacMillan Bruce MacMillan is offline
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The WS52 began life in 1943 as the WS9 Mk II. In January 1944 the set was renamed the WS52 to avoid confusion with the earlier #9 sets. The first shipment to the UK was 79 sets and these went to the UK War Dept. A total of 475 sets were ordered with most going to 21st Army Group. Canadian demands were made from British stores.

These were used for bgd/div level, ASSU units and in LCVs. Having a stand alone receiver gave the ability to monitor your signal when operating remotely. Also could monitor other radio nets.

Nothing definite on why plates were removed unless they were initially badged as WS9 MK II. Plates removed but not replaced.

Nice set being used into the 1950s.
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  #3  
Old 26-02-16, 02:37
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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Thanks, Bruce.

Any indication if the production number you mention was 52-set identified units or included earlier production No 9 Mk II sets as well? Seems a rather small run unless they 'hid' more complete sets in the spares inventory.

Not certain how many were still active in Canada at the time, but I have a Canadian Army publication with a date of 23 April 1963 that lists two M152Cdn vehicles with the 52-Set. One pure 52-set and the second a 19/52 combo setup.

David
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  #4  
Old 26-02-16, 17:36
Bruce MacMillan Bruce MacMillan is offline
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The 475 were part of an order for 639 sets. The initial shipment was destined for the CMHQ but diverted to UK needs. In fact the UK wanted all they could get, see photo.

Looking at serial numbers there were a lot made, into the thousands. Where they went isn't reported as my date cuts off in 1945. The Canadian Army used them in Korea and post war Germany. The installation instructions for my M152CDN was dated 1961. I couldn't find a 52 set so settled for a 19 set and two C42s in rebroadcast roll.

I wouldn't mind one but I'm getting to old to hump these around the shack!
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ws52UK.jpg  
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  #5  
Old 02-12-16, 02:53
Jacques Fortin Jacques Fortin is offline
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Default Wireless Set No 52 Canadian Production

Does any of you have clues about the serial number range of those 475/639 units ??
I am just trying to know the total quantity of Canadian WS # 52 made.
Any help you can provide will be appreciated.

Jacques
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  #6  
Old 09-05-20, 22:38
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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A couple of years after Jacques’ query on this thread, regarding production numbers for the 52-Set, he started a Data Base of any known surviving 52-Set equipment to see what that would tell us. He sent me some preliminary results this afternoon.

The lowest Serial Number he has found to date is 5002 and the highest is 9006. That is a total known run so far of 4,004.

The complete number of sets so far is 11, but we are not certain if all of those have original Carriers No. 4. Further details to be determined on that.

By far the commonest item is the 52-Set Remote Receiver at 19. The ZE-12 Remote Receiver Supply is the least surviving item with a known count of only 3.

If anyone has a complete 52-Set, or components thereof, with surviving Data Plates on them, and has not provided the serial numbers to Jacques, can you please do so, and indicate if your complete set has the Carriers No. 4 with it.

Jacques is looking for Serial Numbers from the following components:

Receiver:
Supply Unit: (and if it has Workshop Rebuild stickers the Shop and year rebuilt.}
Sender:
Coil, Aerial Tuning:
Remote Supply (ZE-12):

A big thanks to all who have contributed so far!

David
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  #7  
Old 10-05-20, 00:58
Bruce Parker Bruce Parker is offline
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I think Jacques has mine, thus explaining the high 9006 serial.

Sender 8342
Supply Unit 8253
Receiver 5824
Coil, Aerial Tuning No.2A 9006
Has the carrier
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  #8  
Old 10-05-20, 01:57
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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He does indeed, Bruce, and thanks so much for contributing to this Data Base!

David
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  #9  
Old 14-06-20, 00:53
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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Several decades ago, Chris Bisaillion, ordered a number of copies of microfilm reels from the Public Archives of Canada, related to wartime wireless set production, and also obtained a microfilm reader. His main interest was the Wireless Set No. 19 at the time, but reading the films was a challenge because a lot of the image quality was so poor. He eventually transferred all the microfilm to DVD’s in the hopes of improved readability via computers but eventually gave up on the project and the DVD’s sat filed away.

Chris recently sent the DVD’s to Jacques Fortin, and Jacques has been busy in his spare time in lockdown going through the reels, trying to make sense of them. A lot of the images are too poor to work with, even with the help of modern computer software: either too dark, or too washed out. Adding to the problem is nothing is grouped by wireless set. Reel contents list only what is on the reel. But information on all sets listed is randomly scattered throughout the reel and each reel contains several thousand images. Jacques is starting off by going through the reels searching for documentation on the Wireless Set No. 52. It does not help matters this set was referred to as No. 9 Mk II, Wireless Set No. 52 Canadian, 52-Set and C52. And then there is the problem of a number of different date codes applied to the Military documents that make deciphering the actual dates a bit of a challenge. This impacts getting the proper chronological order sorted out to make sense of ongoing communications between various parties.

At the end of each reel of film, there is an image of an Affidavit completed by the person who scanned the documents. Most of the files Jacques has looked at so far were microfilmed in 1954, and it has become evident processing quantity was the driving force behind the project, not quality. For example, one Affidavit showed just over 3,000 file pages scanned in just over 5 hours. To get those kinds of numbers, individual camera adjustments for each page were kicked to the curb. The camera was set to ‘average settings’ and the scanning commenced regardless of quality.

Another issue that has come to light with Jacques work so far. Many of these files contained supporting photographs or negatives in glassine envelopes. At the time of scanning the files in 1954, these images were removed from their envelopes and sent to a photographic archive. The empty envelope was then so marked and returned empty to its original file. It is not clear if the photo archive, wherever it may be, has the ability to reference back any of these images to their original files, or if that link has been lost forever.

All that being said by way of qualifying what is being done, and file size permitting, I am going to attempt posting some of these documents here, as they become available from Jacques. Some posts might be one or more individual documents. Others might be small, acceptable PDF files that are self-contained, I am still thinking about how to handle the much larger PDF files. This seemed like the appropriate thread to use as all the documents relate in some way to the production of the Wireless Set No. 52 Canadian. So stay tuned.

David
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  #10  
Old 14-06-20, 01:02
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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To get an idea of the scope of this project Jacques is working on, here is a list of the Microfilm Reels Chris obtained copies of years ago from the Public Archives of Canada, and the contents of each as listed by PAC.



C-5770 No 19 Set
C-5787 Webbing Canadian Manufacture
C-5815 No 9, 10, 11
C-5816 No 12, 18, 19, 22, 27, 29, 32
C-5817 No 33, 34, 38, 39, 42, 43, 46, 52, 53, 58, 62, 63, 1143, 4332, 78, 82, 86, 88
C-5818 Receivers VRL, 106, 107, AR88, R103, 208, 101, 109, 216, 209
C-5819 Batteries, Generator 300W
C-5820 Functional Tests 19 Set, Wavemeters
C-5821 Cipher Apparatus


Jacques is starting with the obvious reels indicating possible useful material, but will eventually end up checking all reels for any hidden information.


David
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  #11  
Old 14-06-20, 01:09
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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Default Change of Name and Initial Order Information

Here are a couple of single page files dated 7 January 1944.


David
Attached Files
File Type: pdf WS52_No9MkII_NameChange.pdf (464.3 KB, 6 views)
File Type: pdf WS52_InitialOrders.pdf (526.9 KB, 5 views)
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  #12  
Old 14-06-20, 08:02
Bruce MacMillan Bruce MacMillan is offline
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These files (and more) are available on the Canadiana Heritage website.
http://heritage.canadiana.ca/view/oo...c_mikan_133092

As David said each file can be 3000-5000 pages and there are about 450 files. You do the math. I've been trolling these for a number of months. They cover every facit of the army from war diaries to supply of materiel, even personnel selected for the SOE.
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  #13  
Old 14-06-20, 15:06
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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Default 25 April 1944

There seems to have been a lot of communications activity around this time regarding the 52-Set.

Here are some files related to the Flick Drives.

David
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File Type: pdf WS52_Critics.pdf (1.30 MB, 8 views)
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  #14  
Old 14-06-20, 15:10
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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Default 25 April 1944

As we know, the early Dynamotors in the Supply Unit of the 52-Set had some issues.

Here is some supporting files regarding the problem and the modifications implemented until the manufacturer could deliver the upgraded units that finally resolved the problems.

David
Attached Files
File Type: pdf WS52_DynamotorsProblem.pdf (1.10 MB, 5 views)
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  #15  
Old 14-06-20, 15:19
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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Hello Bruce.

I went on line this morning and had a look at Microfilm Reel C-1587. it appears identical, warts and all, to the copy Chris obtained years back. Lots of unreadable pages. Makes one wonder what the point of attempting to save ones Heritage is, if what you save cannot ever be referenced/used by the future generations. My thought is the microfilm project was implemented to get vaster access to the archive material. Hundreds of film prints could be made and distributed for viewing as opposed to a single original only available to one researcher at a time.

Also makes me wonder if the paperwork went back into long term storage after being microfilmed in the 1950's, or was destroyed. Be nice if still in storage as the possibility of being able to pull illegible documents and re-image them would still be a possibility.

David

Last edited by David Dunlop; 14-06-20 at 17:33. Reason: Fixing Auto Correct.
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  #16  
Old 07-07-20, 23:22
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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Jacques has been busy during lockdown, wading through more microfilm reels. This time around, what he has been reviewing has all been from 1943 and all the information located so far has been in reference to the then identified CMC Wireless Set No. 9 Mk II Canadian.

He has assembled seven more documents from what he has found to date. Four of these have dates on them, three are unknown but are likely from 1943 because of the names of the set being referred to in them.

This first one attached is 'Preliminary Information' and is undated.

David
Attached Files
File Type: pdf WS9MkII_PreliminaryInformation.pdf (690.7 KB, 1 views)
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  #17  
Old 07-07-20, 23:27
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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This second document is dated 16 August 1943 and related to the HI POWER LOCK being designed into the Sender.

David
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File Type: pdf WS9MkII_HighPowerLock.pdf (315.3 KB, 2 views)
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  #18  
Old 07-07-20, 23:32
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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This third document is an interesting one. It is also dated 16 August 1943 and relates to the design of an AC Power Supply being designed by CMC for the WS. No. 9 Mk II.

Some more documents to follow later.

David
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File Type: pdf WS9MkII_ACpowerSupply.pdf (1.32 MB, 5 views)
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  #19  
Old 12-07-20, 04:00
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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This is the fourth document of the recent batch assembled by Jacques Fortin. It is identified as MEMORANDUM No. 8 and dated 27 October 1943.

At the very beginning, this memorandum lists five members of Canadian Marconi Company in attendance at the relevant meeting concerning the Wireless Set No. 9 Mk II Cdn. No titles provided but if anyone can identify who they were, it would be really interesting to find out who was actually there from CMC.

The other tidbit can be found in the MECHANICAL DETAIL Section of the memo. There, it states that a small compartment will be fitted to the top of the Carrier to accommodate the Instruction Manual and Tuning Chart.

This is the first time I have ever heard of the small metal chart being included here. I went and found mine to try it out. Width is perfect, but length if one half inch too long. this one has the 12 holes punched around the perimeter of it for mounting in a location close at hand to the wireless set. If the holes were not punched in it, it appears it could be shortened enough to fit the compartment.

As usual, you find a new bit of information, and more questions pop up. Was there an earlier version of the metal tuning chart with no holes that fit into the compartment with the manual? Did the manual originally not have a foldout tuning chart inside it? Given the set came with a rain cover for the front of the Carrier, there is a certain logic to having a metal chart to avoid getting the manual wet needlessly.Did they switch to a slightly longer metal chart to allow it to be readily mounted? Interesting mystery.

David
Attached Files
File Type: pdf WS9MkII_MemorandumNo8.pdf (765.7 KB, 2 views)

Last edited by David Dunlop; 12-07-20 at 04:05.
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  #20  
Old 12-07-20, 20:21
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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Number 5 in the latest release. This document is dated 26 November 1943 and is a tabulated summary of the Performance Differences to be found between the Wireless Set No. 9 Mk. I Canadian and the Wireless Set No. 9 Mk II Canadian.

David
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File Type: pdf WS9MkII_PerformanceData.pdf (731.8 KB, 3 views)
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  #21  
Old 13-07-20, 18:52
Bruce MacMillan Bruce MacMillan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Dunlop View Post
At the very beginning, this memorandum lists five members of Canadian Marconi Company in attendance at the relevant meeting concerning the Wireless Set No. 9 Mk II Cdn. No titles provided but if anyone can identify who they were, it would be really interesting to find out who was actually there from CMC.
David
I've been able to track three of them down. These are pre-war positions. F.T. Winter was the manager of the Maritimes region in Halifax. Jackson was the manager of the radio and appliance division and Bird was the Technical Liaison officer. I suspect the other two were in management as well.

Prior to the war Canadian Marconi had a lot invested in marine radio so Winter's experience with the marine crowd in Halifax was useful.
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  #22  
Old 15-07-20, 15:21
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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Thanks for that, Bruce. I find it interesting how the various parts of large corporations come together on major projects.

David
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  #23  
Old 16-07-20, 01:18
Chris Suslowicz Chris Suslowicz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Dunlop View Post
The other tidbit can be found in the MECHANICAL DETAIL Section of the memo. There, it states that a small compartment will be fitted to the top of the Carrier to accommodate the Instruction Manual and Tuning Chart.

This is the first time I have ever heard of the small metal chart being included here. I went and found mine to try it out. Width is perfect, but length if one half inch too long. this one has the 12 holes punched around the perimeter of it for mounting in a location close at hand to the wireless set. If the holes were not punched in it, it appears it could be shortened enough to fit the compartment.

As usual, you find a new bit of information, and more questions pop up. Was there an earlier version of the metal tuning chart with no holes that fit into the compartment with the manual? Did the manual originally not have a foldout tuning chart inside it? Given the set came with a rain cover for the front of the Carrier, there is a certain logic to having a metal chart to avoid getting the manual wet needlessly.Did they switch to a slightly longer metal chart to allow it to be readily mounted? Interesting mystery.

David
It's quite likely that the original chart was like the metal "Working Instructions" plates or instruction card, the same size as the manual, and would fit the storage compartment (possibly along with the Unit Record Log), but they later decided it would be more useful screwed to the wall (etc.) close to the aerial tuning unit for easy (and hands-free) reference.

Chris.
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  #24  
Old 19-07-20, 15:14
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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Hi Chris.

It does get interesting when unknown little tidbits pop up about these sets in production. Makes me wonder just how dynamic the development and production of other sets might have been, like the No. 19 Set Mk III.

David
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  #25  
Old 19-07-20, 15:19
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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This file is also out of the 1943 Microfilm Reels, but the actual date of it is unknown.

It is a proposed draft for the COMPLETE STATION LIST for the Wireless Set No.9 MK II.

David
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File Type: pdf WS9MkII_CompleteStationList.pdf (1.39 MB, 2 views)
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  #26  
Old 19-09-20, 17:01
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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Default WS 52 First Report Sept. 14th, 1944

A lot of dark pages in this file, so I have had to split it into six packets to keep the file size within limits. I will do two back-to-back posts of three files each.

Although this report was filed on Sept. 14, 1944, you will note the evaluation itself was completed some time earlier in the year. It is also interesting that the Shipping Manifest Lists were included in the report. They appear at the end of the second packet.

CMC even provided a CMP Wireless Lorry for the evaluation and it would be interesting if that particular vehicle was found to still be alive and well today, somewhere in England. Also along that line, CMC also included the Serial Numbers of each piece of Wireless Equipment sent over for the evaluation. I wonder if any of them have survived today as well?

David
Attached Files
File Type: pdf WS52 First Report Set 14, 1944 A.pdf (866.5 KB, 1 views)
File Type: pdf WS52 First Report Set 14, 1944 B.pdf (1.13 MB, 0 views)
File Type: pdf WS52 First Report Set 14, 1944 C.pdf (1.02 MB, 0 views)
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  #27  
Old 19-09-20, 17:03
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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Default WS 52 First Report Sept. 14th, 1944

Second portion.

David
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File Type: pdf WS52 First Report Set 14, 1944 D.pdf (1.03 MB, 0 views)
File Type: pdf WS52 First Report Set 14, 1944 E.pdf (1.10 MB, 0 views)
File Type: pdf WS52 First Report Set 14, 1944 F.pdf (372.7 KB, 2 views)
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