Colour of markings for 36th Battery, Canadian 23rd Field Regiment RCA?

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Roy Aalderson in the Netherlands is restoring a Sexton GPO and he would like to mark it as this Sexton GPO.

Can anyone help with the colours of the markings?

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Sexton GPO (Gun Position Officer) “DARLING” of D Troop, 36th Battery, Canadian 23rd Field Regiment on parade in the Netherlands at the end of the war in 1945. It looks like this GPO was converted from a Sexton Mk.I (note the 3-piece final drive asssembly and M4 bogie and regular VVSS track).

Archive caption: "Sexton self-propelled howitzers passing in front of a reviewing stand at a parade. Date: 1945. This shows a parade (likely a VE-day parade in Holland) where a battery of Sexton self-propelled howitzers are being reviewed. The vehicles are from the 23rd Field Regiment, Royal Canadian Artillery, 4th Canadian Armoured Division. The vehicle closest to the stand is a Gun Position Officer variant of the Sexton."

Source: http://central.bac-lac.gc.ca/.redire...07966&lang=eng

[Alex van de Wetering]

4th Canadian Division would mean a Gold maple leaf over a green background.

"76" would be on a square with top half in red, lower half in blue.

"TLD" (Troop leader of D troop) would be on a blue and red square. From what I read on the web, 36th Battery was the second battery in the 23rd Field regiment. This would mean that "TLD" would be on a blue square, with a smaller red square in the lower right corner.
The TLD tactical sign also appears on the sides of the vehicle.

[maple_leaf_eh]

D Troop, 36th Battery, Canadian 23rd Field Regiment:

From my copy of Jean Bouchery's full colour book, "From D-Day to VE-Day, The Canadian Soldier" let me add to the conversation.

Would the War Department number start with CT for Tanks and Carriers versus S for Self-Propelled Gun? Whichever, white letters on the right rear side, above and between the rear idler and last roadwheel / or on the opposite side same location / or on the front left upper side beside the driver's shoulder.

A yellow circle with black surround and bridge classification number on the front right of the final drive. Bouchery shows a Sexton SPG with 30 as the weight.

Above the right front mudguard on the forward slope of the hull, 76 in white on a red over blue arm of service for artillery.

On the opposite side in the same location, the gold maple leaf on a coloured square. Not sure which colour background for that division.

The two upper hull markings are repeated reversed on the rear hull, the arm of service on the left and the maple leaf on the right.

Someone smarter than me will make corrections, and narrow down the particulars.

[Alex van de Wetering]

Attached is what I think the markings and colours would be. Please note that I only used a generic font to make this quick graphic, so it't not a perfect match with the picture!

Also attached is a picture of a Sexton from B troop, 23rd Field Regiment, which would be 31st Battery. Picture taken in Diepenheim 1945, source:https://mijnstadmijndorp.nl/app/old-...7&id=324200179

Also attached is a picture of a Sexton from F troop, 23rd Field Regiment, 83rd Battery. Picture posted here on the forum by Bryan Naylor in this thread:
http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...d.php?p=100364

Both pictures give an idea of the location of the markings, but Bryans picture also shows the Tactical sign of F troop, with the red square in the lower left corner of the blue background, this matches the info on the Wiki page (3rd battery in 23rd Field regiment with Easy and Fox troops) :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/23rd_Field_Regiment,_RCA

This would mean that indeed the red square for "Darling" would be in the lower right corner of the tactical sign, as 36th battery is the 2nd battery in 23rd Field regiment.

last picture attached is a screenshot from the "The Royal Artillery 1939-1945" website. source: https://ra39-45.co.uk/formations-and...hicle-markings

[Alex van de Wetering]

Originally Posted by maple_leaf_eh

Would the War Department number start with CT for Tanks and Carriers versus S for Self-Propelled Gun?

Terry, the "T" prefix on this GPO is indeed a bit "surprising" (This was also noticed by KevinT on the WW2talk), as the normal prefix for a Sexton would be CS or S. Most likely the prefix "T" was used as this Sexton GPO has no gun, and was therefor marked as a "normal" tracked vehicle.

I can't see a star or a Bridge classification on "Darling".....and the paintwork looks really neat. It could be that the vehicle was repainted for the parade in 1945, painting over the bridge classification.....or that it was only just put into service and the marking was never applied????

Two other GPO's pictured in Goor in 1945, also don't seem to show a Bridge classification (ref. http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...858#post269858).


Pictures from this thread: https://ww2talk.com/index.php?thread...-sp-rca.35244/

These threads are also interesting regarding 23rd Field artillery:
http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/showthread.php?t=6168
http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...d.php?p=100364
http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...324#post272324

And this one on WW2talk:
https://ww2talk.com/index.php?thread...-sp-rca.35244/

And Bryans movies on youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...4903B6AEF316A8

[Alex van de Wetering]

Also posted here on the forum is a nice picture of A troop :



from this thread: http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...654#post275654

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Thanks all for the extensive info!

I will ask Roy for a recent photo of his Sexton GPO project.

[maple_leaf_eh]

Originally Posted by Alex van de Wetering

Terry, the "T" prefix on this GPO is indeed a bit "surprising" (This was also noticed by KevinT on the WW2talk), as the normal prefix for a Sexton would be CS or S. Most likely the prefix "T" was used as this Sexton GPO has no gun, and was therefor marked as a "normal" tracked vehicle.

.....

As I started my posting, I'm reading one source. The author has a little table of letter prefixes and their application. As we know, not every publication is correct and end-to-end consistent. A tracked armoured observation vehicle is neither fish or fowl.

A Ambulance
C Motorbike
F Heavy Engineering Vehicle
H Armoured Car
H Tractor or articulated lorry
L Lorry over one ton
M Light Car, ie Jeep
P Amphibious Vehicle
S Self Propelled Gun
T Tank or Bren Carrier (his spelling and model name choice)
V Van (RASC)
X Vehicle towing a lorry
Z Small lorry

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by maple_leaf_eh

As I started my posting, I'm reading one source. The author has a little table of letter prefixes and their application. As we know, not every publication is correct and end-to-end consistent. A tracked armoured observation vehicle is neither fish or fowl.

A Ambulance
C Motorbike
F Heavy Engineering Vehicle
H Armoured Car
H Tractor or articulated lorry
L Lorry over one ton
M Light Car, ie Jeep
P Amphibious Vehicle
S Self Propelled Gun
T Tank or Bren Carrier (his spelling and model name choice)
V Van (RASC)
X Vehicle towing a lorry
Z Small lorry

This is the correct list of letter prefixes identifying the type of vehicle (source):

CA Ambulance
CM Car (staff car, jeep, etc.)
CC Motorcycle
CS Self-Propelled Gun
CF Armoured Car or Scout Car
CT Universal Carrier or Tank
CH Tractors (ie Artillery tractors)
CX Trailers of all types
CL Lorry (30 cwt or heavier)
CZ Truck (15 cwt and smaller)

So it makes sense that the Sexton GPO, as an tracked armoured vehicle, had a (C)T number.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

“Darling” is coming along nicely

[Alex van de Wetering]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

“Darling” is coming along nicely

Attachment 139179

Excellent! Good to see a picture of the progress.