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  #1  
Old 10-09-13, 06:02
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Jon Bradshaw Jon Bradshaw is offline
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Default I have begun my carrier's transformation

As I said in a previous post I am planning on making a Vickers Light Command tank out of a beat up old T16 "Bathtub". I made the trip to Ontario to get it in a new to me truck and bought a new to me trailer to haul it back.
More money than brains I know I know....
I have wanted a tank for a long time and this seems the way to get one.
I started by cutting out left over bits from the original fire wall and engine mounts.
Blasting the interior and applying grey primer to keep the rust away.
Then on to the engine. My first choice was a Jeep grand Cherokee for its "bullet proof engine". After finding one that was in good shape I tore it apart. Getting the engine and wiring harness out was a bit of a chore. Rad was rotten so need another but heater core was good so at least I can make it warm inside.
After a few weekends of frustration I am now stuck with an engine that ran well until I pulled it. Now it won't do anything. The computer needs a good talking to by a tech more familiar with it than myself.
I am using an old standard truck transmission to reverse the drive direction so that the front of the carrier will now be the back.
I have many pics but will need to try another way to post them as they are not loading right now.

Click image for larger version

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ID:	60258 Name:  after sand blasting.jpg
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  #2  
Old 12-09-13, 07:07
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Default Engine is sorted.

I had a friend who is better at wiring than me come over and after about 30 minutes he had traced the reason it was dead. The previous owner had wired in a ignition cut out switch. It looked like a regular switch to me and I had not considered it anything so important.
Attached are a few more pics of my carrier and the mods to it so far.

I know this will not be a favorite of the hard core carrier crowd, but it was pretty far gone when I got it.

This is another way of saving a hull that might have been scrapped.

I have a few hulls so will put at least one back right in the future.
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0_1 (5).jpg   0_1 (2).jpg   0_1 (4).jpg  
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  #3  
Old 12-09-13, 10:30
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Robin Craig Robin Craig is offline
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Default

Congratulations on having a go at such a project where it would appear that none survive in the public domain.

Look forward to watching your progress.

R
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  #4  
Old 12-09-13, 22:29
Hans Mulder Hans Mulder is offline
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You will get no such flak from me...there are (relatively) many carriers around, not so many of the light tanks.
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  #5  
Old 14-09-15, 04:37
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Jon Bradshaw Jon Bradshaw is offline
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Default Update

I have been working away on the reproduction tank for a while now. The engine has been sorted by an actual mechanic. It has had it's first and second test drives and then gone out for an hour long field test to see what it will do. I am happy to say that it is now at a metal shop getting steel cut for all the outside armour. The plywood is only temporary to give the metal guys a good idea of what it looks like.I have high hopes for the final product.
Thanks Peter Duggan for the poke to remind me to post pics.

Pictures are very hard to upload. Seems only the ones off my phone will go.
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20150731_203434.jpg   20150418_105446.jpg   20150731_210218.jpg  
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  #6  
Old 14-09-15, 15:03
Peter Duggan Peter Duggan is offline
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Default Great Project

Jon,

Great looking replica. This is a period in the evolution of light tanks that doesn't have many survivors. Looking forward to your updates.

Peter
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  #7  
Old 15-09-15, 01:10
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gary_bath_jr gary_bath_jr is offline
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Default Pictures

Hey Jon

The project is looking great so far, I have a tub of a carrier that I should do the same thing with. As to your pictures not loading the issue could be the file size, I have found that if they are too large they simply do not load and you never get an error or anything. If you can try reducing the size and try again.

Gary
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  #8  
Old 16-09-15, 23:31
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Jon-I went thru the same learning curve with a panzer mk1 I built on a carrier chassis. I ended up building a second panzer tank and in order to get the drive right, I flipped the axle upside down to reverse the direction. this saved having to go thru another transmission that was put in reverse. I like the new driveline a lot better. I also used hydraulic steering on the second one-a big improvement!

John
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  #9  
Old 17-09-15, 03:06
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Default Driveline

If I could post the pics I could show you how I did the drive-line. The original plan of using the second tranny was a bust when I did the math on the gearing ratio it worked out to a very slow machine. I used an engine and trans out of a 1996 Jeep Cherokee (4L inline 6cyl) and left the transfer case attached. This machine runs on the front wheel drive portion of the T case and has plenty of power and speed. I will likely do another one in the future but need to decide on a model of tank..... This one is on a T16 chassis so the steering was no issue as it is already tiller bars. The driving in reverse on the diff only worries me in that the steering brakes are "grabbing" in the wrong direction. Any thoughts on this are welcome.
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  #10  
Old 17-09-15, 04:04
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Jon-the brakes might be grabbing due to rust, oil contamination or lack of use. Or maybe you could use some new brake linings. I wouldn't worry about it. You can check them the next time you break the track for some reason.

John
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  #11  
Old 17-09-15, 06:43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Bradshaw View Post
If I could post the pics I could show you how I did the drive-line.
Jon, I'm no expert on computers, but I usually have the same problem posting pictures here and other forums, as my camera takes pictures that are too high a resolution. I simply email the desired pictures to myself first and reduce the size of them to medium (in my case) then save them and use those smaller pictures for posting.........Maybe a computer whiz can explain an easier way?

Ron
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  #12  
Old 17-09-15, 14:30
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hrpearce hrpearce is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Pier View Post
Jon, I'm no expert on computers, but I usually have the same problem posting pictures here and other forums, as my camera takes pictures that are too high a resolution. I simply email the desired pictures to myself first and reduce the size of them to medium (in my case) then save them and use those smaller pictures for posting.........Maybe a computer whiz can explain an easier way?

Ron
Ron, right click on the photo in your album, select EDIT, select Resize, select Pixels, in the horizontal and vertical fields replace the largest number with 700, click OK, Save the new picture and it will fit on MLU.
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  #13  
Old 17-09-15, 21:32
Hans Mulder Hans Mulder is offline
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Jon, can you switch the pads to opposite ends of the axle to rectify how they "grab" to ensure they have effective braking for the new "forward"? I have a T16 axle on my carrier, so maybe I'll have a look next time I break track and see if it can be done, if you haven't already considered it.
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  #14  
Old 18-09-15, 05:38
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Default Brakes

The brakes I am referring to are the steering brakes inside the differential housing. I see no way to change them around without redesigning the mounts on the inside. They work OK but it is noticeable that they work better when I back up.
The normal drum brakes are just fine for stopping. I made pedals for the drum brakes instead of using the 4 tillers of the T16. I then joined the pedals together to give me straight stopping rather than run the risk of one turning me at a time when I need to stop. I made them separate in case I decide to try steering with them, don't see the need most of the time but if I broke a linkage pin....... might be the only way to get back to the barn for repairs. I am always planning for worst case scenarios....
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  #15  
Old 18-09-15, 05:50
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Default PIC's as I can get them to work.

To try to explain what I have done here are a few pics of the steering I made. Yes it is tight in there with that big engine. The drivers compartment is an even 24 inches from armour to fire wall.
The white stick running up the middle in the picture was for me to line up the drive shaft before I had it made.
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IMG_0815.jpg   IMG_0836.jpg  
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  #16  
Old 18-09-15, 20:23
maple_leaf_eh maple_leaf_eh is offline
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Default

Why does the seat bottom in the second photo look suspiciously like a kitchen bread board ...?

Looks like you are having fun with the conversion without the restrictions of a true-to-the-drawings restoration.
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  #17  
Old 18-09-15, 21:33
Hans Mulder Hans Mulder is offline
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Oh, I understand - I was thinking of the "outer" brakes, not the "inners". I haven't ever taken mine apart myself - I'm a little hesitant too, as I haven't been able to find a resource on teardown and rebuild, but the diff is leaking so it is in the plans sometime.

I like what you did with the pedals - like an old tractor - I have been kicking around doing something similar myself.
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  #18  
Old 19-09-15, 08:32
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Default Funny but true.

Hans-
An old tractor is exactly where I had seen it done before. Gave me the idea. So far it works well.

Terry-
It was actually from a cutting board I had on the back deck, it fit, so I had something to kneel or stand on. I thought one of you guys might comment on it.
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  #19  
Old 15-10-15, 16:46
curtis 13 curtis 13 is offline
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what did you do to couple the transmission to the rear end Thanks
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  #20  
Old 30-10-15, 06:09
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Default Matching rear to transmission

Curtis

I used an old truck transmission that had the correct cog on the shaft and removed the cog. I then took it to the drive line shop and had the drive shaft maker weld it onto the end. The drive shaft fits onto the end it was made for, with the cog welded to that.
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  #21  
Old 31-10-15, 18:07
curtis 13 curtis 13 is offline
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thats awsome good work im glad to see it come together
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  #22  
Old 01-11-15, 19:57
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Default updated pics.

Here are some pics I took yesterday of the progress on the steel. I am trying to match the steel sheets as close as possible. I will make hundreds of holes in it to match the bolt/rivet patterns on the hull. Turret should be done this week. Then all the steel gets taken off, blasted and painted. This should be looking good by spring.... As long as my job doesn't keep me away constantly (which it does).
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left side steel.jpg   front right.jpg  
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  #23  
Old 15-12-15, 07:01
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Jon Bradshaw Jon Bradshaw is offline
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Default Paint color question.

I am getting ready to paint the outside of the armour and am facing a dilemma in paint choices. Since this would have been made by Vickers in 1936/37 and was for the export market I don't know exactly what to think for color.... The colorized photos are not very reliable for shades. Also most of the pics have it as a camouflaged tri-color so I might do that later, was just thinking green for now.
So- Was it more green or was it more brown?
Any thoughts on this would be welcome.... Would like to paint in the next two weeks.
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  #24  
Old 15-12-15, 09:38
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I think as a general rule, until the outbreak of war, the standard WD colour was a gloss Brunswick Green. The two in the 'Tank Museum' were plain Brunswick for years. But both have been re-painted in recent times. I would say that it wouldn't hurt to go with Brunswick now and add to, or change the scheme at a later date. Personally I can't see the point of camo unless the vehicle is being depicted in a theatre of operation. Ron
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v0_bov_high.jpg   v0_bov_high (1).jpg  
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  #25  
Old 16-12-15, 17:42
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Default I hate "Shiny Green"

Thanks for the answer Ron.
This may have been discussed before but I am not sure. I haven't seen it here yet.
I thought the general consensus was that the "early restorations" (1970's and 1980's) used a glossy finish so it would look good on display? That may have been my misunderstanding? I can't believe that anyone in the army would endorse using a shiny vehicle when going into battle....
Then I have heard guys in the army talk about oiling their trucks so they would look clean for inspections..... Silly.
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  #26  
Old 16-12-15, 18:47
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Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Bradshaw View Post
I thought the general consensus was that the "early restorations" (1970's and 1980's) used a glossy finish so it would look good on display? That may have been my misunderstanding? I can't believe that anyone in the army would endorse using a shiny vehicle when going into battle....
Jon,

Actually "up till 1939 an overall gloss colour of Deep Bronze Green No.24 was the usual finish for all vehicles" - quote from Mike Starmer's British Vehicle Camouflage, 1939-45.

If you hate "shiny green", you could opt to choose the Vickers camouflage scheme as seen on the Dutchman tank posted by Ron. If I recall correctly it was Vicker's own because as a commercial company, they tried to make their products as attractive as possible to increase the sales of their tanks. There is a story to be told with your replica Vickers....

HTH,
Hanno
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  #27  
Old 16-12-15, 19:39
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Yes my mistake. The colour was gloss deep bronze green as Hanno stated. Not Brunswick. I was thinking of the Engine colour for the pre and early war Morris engines.

And of course the colour was quickly changed at the outbreak of war to Mat Khaki Gas Proof No3 (KG3). But I don't know if the Vickers Light Tanks were ever deployed in WW2?? Ron
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  #28  
Old 16-12-15, 21:17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Pier View Post
But I don't know if the Vickers Light Tanks were ever deployed in WW2??
Yes they were by the Netherlands East Indies Army. Other Eastern European countries used them in action too. Even the Germans used captured ones. See other threads on this forum.

The British army used Dutchman tanks for traning only. When the NEI capitulated the remainder of the order which had not yet been shipped were taken over by the British WD. Hence the name Dutchman.
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  #29  
Old 16-12-15, 22:13
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Well done Hanno. Not a subject I've studied to any degree! Ron
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  #30  
Old 17-12-15, 00:24
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Don't forget the Australian ones. The AWM has photos of them. I think they are in North Africa?
Also, I think (not 100% sure) they show up in some of the Dunkirk photos as well.
Hanno?
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