#31
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At that price you you might as well consider buying ALL W&T's with CMP articles (click to follow link). Rick, thanks for the heads up. Hanno
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Regards, Hanno -------------------------- |
#32
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Good idea Hanno, will do! Thanks again, I'll let you know how I go.
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One of the original Australian CMP hunters. |
#33
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Bart took an interest in Dolly and came for a look (before my ownership) after seeing Maurice Doncker's one (Issue 43). He's signed one of the manuals that came with her. His investigation is probably where the mention in the vehicle directory comes from. I wish we knew more of what he found.
Incidentally you can see the carrier on Hanno's page in the photo. It's got a H50 box in it which is pretty well spot on for size (although there's more depth available). An H50 (2x303 ammo boxes) case doesn't make a whole lot of sense to carry there though, so it's probably meant fir something else. It's been a mystery to everyone who's owned her. |
#34
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Interesting, but I have no clue either. Could it have come from a British truck? H.
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#35
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So, what do we have here?
Picture was taken in South Sumatra, Indonesia, somewhere during 1946-1948. This CMP truck is in use with Dutch troops, who inherited a lot of vehicles from the British Indian Army units which first occupied Indonesia in 1945. http://nimh-beeldbank.defensie.nl/me...1-13966e870614
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Regards, Hanno -------------------------- Last edited by Hanno Spoelstra; 09-11-16 at 14:47. Reason: added second picture |
#36
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Hi Hanno,
As per my Facebook post the CMP type pictured is C291Q.L-W Lorry, 30cwt, 4x4, Water. Here’s my general take on this type with known images.
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One of the original Australian CMP hunters. |
#37
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Yes, we need to do some more research on Ford's 1945 C291Q models. I think we should go back and study: 1) available source documentation to get a clear listing of contracts and corresponding vehicle configurations; 2) a field survey of known surviving examples; 3) "counting heads" or the ongoing study of period photographs (as you have done above). Due to the limited nature of available reference sources, there is a risk of "educated guesswork". If we have made any assumptions, we should make note of them. In this case it, is vital to state that the designation "1945 C291Q.L-W Lorry, 30cwt, 4x4, Water" you have labelled the above photos with, is your own interpretation of what "C291Q.L-W" stands for. Thanks, Hanno
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#38
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Hanno I've posted this message verbatim on Keith's Facebook page to avoid potential confusion. Cheers, Tony.
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One of the original Australian CMP hunters. Last edited by Tony Wheeler; 05-12-17 at 15:35. |
#39
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I was preparing a proper answer to your posting, but I see you have since changed it. Frankly, I am a bit miffed by your demeanour to all concerned and how you address this very important research topic. It is solely because of your attitude that I don't feel I need to discuss this any further with you. I was hoping we could have gone to the bottom and turn the last stone on this subject. Alas. I have removed my postings on FB regarding what you think is a mythical vehicle anyway. Have a good day.
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#40
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No worries Hanno, I figured this discussion would end in tears. That’s why I’ve avoided the subject for three years. You guys have too much vested interest for frank and fearless discussion. Like I said, no skin off my nose, it’s purely academic for me.
Cheers, Tony.
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One of the original Australian CMP hunters. |
#41
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Brian purchased this vehicle almost 40 years ago as a disused tow truck, so he had no idea of the original configuration. His only clue was the previous owner’s recollection of having bought two trucks at auction many years earlier, one of them a Water Bowser and the other fitted with a steel GS body. Brian guessed it had been the GS bodied truck, and speculated on its purpose: “Well, basically this vehicle is a F15A with a few uprated bits and pieces, to make it a little bit more suited for towing a gun.” Thus was born the “winchless FAT” theory. In hindsight the far simpler explanation is that Brian purchased the former Water Bowser, designated “Lorry, 30cwt, 4x4, Water” on the contract card, and the other truck was F15A. Brian of course had no inkling of the “Lorry, 30cwt, 4x4, Water”, so his “winchless FAT” theory seemed reasonable at the time, and we’ve all entertained it over the years. However, now that we have Lauren’s contract card info, it does not take a rocket scientist to join the dots, all the way back to the forgotten Water Bowser. Once joined, everything about this vehicle as found makes sense, including the previously unexplained PTO. Following excerpt from Brian’s account of the purchase on Hanno’s “F22” webpage: "I purchased the vehicle back in 1979/80 from a garage in Hampshire, where it had stood unwanted and unloved for about 15 years. The garage owner told me that he had bought two Ford V8 trucks at an auction, one was fitted with a GS steel body, and the other was a Water Bowser. Both bodies were removed by him, and the trucks were fitted out with a Harvey Frost crane and winch fitted to the back for use as a tow truck….The garage owner could not remember which vehicle was fitted with which body”. Repeat: The garage owner could not remember which vehicle was fitted with which body.
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One of the original Australian CMP hunters. |
#42
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Idée fixe!
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Tony, Misconstrued is the operative word here. I am no longer going to continue to debate on this matter with you. Others have done so already, or may do so in the future, that is up to them to decide. 1) But I have to stand up for Peter Ford here, as he is no longer with us to defend himself against you twisting and turning his words. I quoted him as follows from a number of emails we exchanged on this subject: Quote:
If one reads carefully, one can see Peter and I were openly discussing the possibilities, and also that Peter both delved into his knowledge of known facts (like the model codes) and his extended thoughts on what “.L” and “F.22” could mean. So it is you, Tony Wheeler, who turned Peter Ford’s extended thoughts on the “.L” suffix being the “Lorry version of a C291Q” into “the official Ford designation”. Peter Ford never said it was any official designation - it was his “gut feeling”. Enough about Peter Ford, may he Rest in Peace. 2) The same holds true for Brian Nunn. He is not on this forum and I am not even sure he is still alive. Therefore I am going to speak up for him too, or at least for his words as printed by me on my webpage 17 years ago. You say “his “winchless FAT” theory seemed reasonable at the time”. I see you toned down from “myth” to “theory”. This I will take as the start of an apology towards Brian. 3) I resent your remark “You guys have too much vested interest for frank and fearless discussion”. In fact it is you who made the “logical interpretation for C291Q.L-W would be "Lorry, 30 cwt, 4x4, Water"” (ref. your quote below), based upon which only you drew the conclusion that Brian’s truck must be a Water Lorry and could not have been anything else. 4) Let me end my posting with this: anyone can have a strong opinion, but once you start vehemently accrediting them to other people, you are crossing a line. Also, your posts are bordering on the just plain rude and offensive and by doing this, you have alienated respected members of this forum at least twice. In the interest of MLU Forum, let me be clear about my warning: if you do this again, you leave me no option but apply the “three strikes you’re out” ruling. So for the record - you have been warned. PS: I have closed this thread to prevent it to derail any further. Contact me via email if you feel the need to vent your opinion. Hanno MLU Administrator Quote:
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Regards, Hanno -------------------------- |
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