help with engine swap to 8BA engine

[Keith Webb]

If it has a transfer case cross member and the gearbox bolts into the member in front of that rather than onto it then it is a 4X4 chassis.

[Jason Linders]

I might have another look next time im in dalby and see it just didnt look like blitz diff or front axle, and the one i found down their turned out to be a blitz cab mounted to a ford truck chassis and had been rego'd like that too

[Jason Linders]

Tried Ross tonight and no luck their was told to try Ken smith so sent a PM see how i go

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Keith Webb

No good to you if it is a F15 4x2 chassis which is completely different.

I wouldn't rule it out in this case, because it involves chassis alterations anyway. You'd just have to do a few more with the F15 chassis, ie:

1. provide cutout in front crossmember for diff clearance
2. fit transfer case crossmember
3. fit 4x4 rear spring hangers
4. fit 4x4 gearbox crossmember

Off the top of my head that's all that's required, the only difficulty being absence of pre-stamped rivet holes. That's certainly not insurmountable, and if it's the only chassis available I see no reason to hold up the project. However I'd be checking with Keith who has intimate knowledge of the F15 chassis.

Ideally of course you'd start with an F15A chassis, firstly because you don't have to do the above work, and secondly because the pre-stamped holes for the winch crossmember and the relocated midsection crossmember are present, and thirdly because you get a set of high ratio diffs (assuming it's a rolling chassis). For these reasons it's worth paying a bit more if necessary.

[Jason Linders]

If i have to remove all my crossmembers thats fine i have a good mate of mine thats a engineer but does all the old school blacksmithing so has the tooling and gear to do the hot riveting, but if i can find a F15A it would be better, but no luck as of yet just dont seem to be able to find one up here in QLD

[Keith Webb]

The F15 has longer front springs (and different hangers) and although I don't have one handy to check I think the front part of the chassis is different too.

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Jason Linders

if i can find a F15A it would be better, but no luck as of yet just dont seem to be able to find one up here in QLD

I was just saying to Keith the other day they're getting hard to find down here. Maybe you should grab the F15 as a back up in case nothing turns up. The chassis rails are the same so at least you know it can be done, it's just a question of work. Of course as soon as you do there'll be any number of F15A chassis available!

[Jason Linders]

Yes that seems to always happen to me , i settle then one turns up and for better money

[Jason Linders]

So the rails are the same will i have to drill anymore holes for anything else like the fuel tank brakets if i go down the path of the F15 chassis and are we sure its the same chassis rails all i need really are the rails so i will be removing all my gearbox members and stuff and just replacing the rails if it works.

[Jason Linders]

Can anyone tell me if they are the same rails , if i have to go down this path i will remove my rails and replace them and keep my FGT centre cross members

[Grant Bowker]

According to the parts books (not confirmed by actual observation) each of FGT and F15A had several different frame assemblies with corresponding frame rails. The differences in these seem to have been in mounting holes for different components. Ford or Delco shock absorbers, different steering gears, different winch fairleads/rollers, early and late cab.
Although the changes in F15A and FGT frames seem to parallel each other (except winches are FGT only in the 101.25" WB frames) there are separate part numbers for the FGT and F15A frame assemblies and rails. The difference in the numbers is the prefix designating the vehicle model C011WQF for F15A and C011QF for FGT.
In general, the prefix seems to reflect the first vehicle to use a given part and any other vehicles that use the same part reference the part using the original prefix. For example there are many parts in both the F15A and FGT lists that are prefixed C01QF (either F30 or F60S).
Based on the above (again - not confirmed by actual observation) my opinion is that there is some difference between the frame rails used on F15As and FGTs.
Now for speculation - you may be able to use FGT rails on a F15A without much change (possibly adjustments for mounting a full cab as opposed to FGT body) and F15A rails on a FGT (probably with opposite adjustments for body/cab and added holes needed for FGT use to mount the winch and other equipment).
It might be effective to find/borrow one of each frame, stack them on top of each other, photograph this and hand it to several of your knowledgable friends and ask them to play spot-the-differences. Even better to do this with both side views, top, bottom, front and back as well.

[cletrac (RIP)]

I think the gun tractors have extra gussets from frame rail to crossmember so there'd be extra holes drilled. No big deal.

[Jason Linders]

Thanks for that guys, just another question would F15 rail be the same as F15A rail just the rails i can swap every cross member if nee be thats no big deal but i think my rails are just way to passed fixing, i have a mate that thinks he can fix them but how far do you go before its just not worth it and
the back from the rear spring hanger is just too smashed

[Jason Linders]

Here is some pics of the rear and the cracks in the rails

[Jason Linders]

So my mate said we would have to remove everything that is bolted to the rails and realign the rails weld the cracks the reinforce the rails on the inside
properly and remove all rubbish welds and plates and start again, i think it
can be done but i think rear i end is a little passed it but if i cut the mess of the leave the 200mil of the rear is that a big problem and then we would have to hot rivet it all back togeather, this is what im looking at, at a worse case no chassis avalable.
Just talking here if i can find a chassis nothing ubove matters its only if i cannot
What does everyone else think.

[Grant Bowker]

The frame rails fo rthe F15 have different part numbers from both the F15A and FGT. Once again I can't tell you what the diffeence is, only that the frame rails for the F15 were unique to the F15.
Your mate is a braver man than I am to take on those cracks. For my welding skill (or lack thereof), those cracks are closer to other things (cross members, spring hangers etc.) attached to the frame than I know how to reinforce. I've also seen quite a few frames that ended up cracking right beside the repair weld. I don't know if that was a result of poor preparation, poor technique, weld heat and metalurgy making the area prone to crack again or something else. The Ford CMP maintenance manual does give advice on frame repair.
If you add reinforcement inside the frame, you will need to allow for the thickness at each crossmember to avoid having the frame wider in some areas than others. you might also run into issues with parts that mount to the frame spannig its width (due to the new width of the frame being slightly greater due to you reinforcement being sandwiched between crossmembers and frame rails) such as springs/axles, cab, bumperreak hitch spring (although it is a loose enough fit that i don't think it would be a problem) rear body (not likely to be a problem for GS bodies given the mounting system). Maybe I worry too much???

[Jason Linders]

Thanks for that Grant any info is better that nothing, just seeing what everyone else has to say becouse its very hard to find a chassis i have had no luck for the last 12 months and the only way i could see a way around it was to repair whats their, my mate is a welder and blacksmith by trade
and without a chassis the blitz is dead in the water.
Does anyone think its a bad idea to try and repair the chassis

[Keith Webb]

It's a lot of work to repair a chassis, I realise you have been trying for 12 months to find one, surely one of us in your general area can assist you to find a good F15A chassis?

C'mon MLU-ers!

[Jason Linders]

I really didnt wont to repair it so ill hang on and see what comes up

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Jason Linders

Does anyone think its a bad idea to try and repair the chassis

The word "bad" doesn't quite cover it Jason. "Sheer lunacy" goes a bit closer!

If you're prepared to do that kind of work there's a far better option, namely shorten a F60S or F60L chassis, which are easy to find. That would simply mean removing the midsection and joining the end sections together. You only have one side rail weld to worry about, and if done properly the chassis will be stronger than the original FGT chassis, which is only single skin. By "properly" I mean cutting the inner and outer skins in different locations, as far apart as possible to maximize chassis strength. That shouldn't be too difficult, because the inner skin is only stitch welded to the outer one.

This mod is sometimes seen in the wild, done crudely to repair a broken F60L chassis, and the PMG did the reverse mod to lengthen the F15A chassis. In your case it may be preferable to using the F15 chassis, as the crossmembers are already in place. Conveniently the FGT midsection crossmember uses a spacer, which can simply be omitted to accommodate the double skin.

[Jason Linders]

Tony the F60 is the way to go if all else fails and all i have to do is work out were to cut the chassis so it aligns were it should

[Jason Linders]

And what is the differance between the 60s and the 60l

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Grant Bowker

In general, the prefix seems to reflect the first vehicle to use a given part......It might be effective to find/borrow one of each frame, stack them on top of each other, photograph this and hand it to several of your knowledgable friends and ask them to play spot-the-differences.

No need Grant, I have 3 FGT chassis and 4 F15A chassis in my backyard, and I've spent innumerable hours poring over them looking for differences! All I can find on the siderails is an extra set of holes for the fuel tank brackets, which on forensic examination prove to be drilled rather than stamped, with lines scored from the adjacent stamped hole set for accurate measurement. Evidently this was necessary to fit the running boards unique to Australian pattern FGTs.

All other differences relate to additional and/or relocated crossmembers and fishplates, which I've catalogued in post #39 here:

http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...?t=1929&page=2


I wonder if the two different siderail prefixes arise from early parts before the alternative rivet holes were included to simplify production. Also of course there are differences between Cab 12 and Cab 13 side rails, and in the case of Cab 12 chassis I believe the FAT preceded the F15A in development.

[Jason Linders]

All good got the wheel base

F60S - 115IN WHEEL BASE
F60L - 158IN WHEEL BASE
FGT - 101.25IN

[Tony Wheeler]

Slight correction Jason, the F60S is 134 1/4". Not that it makes any difference in this case! Ultimately it will depend on what's available, and don't forget it's only the rear section you're concerned with, as you'll be reusing your FGT front section.

[Jason Linders]

F60L I would be removing 57in
F60S I would be removing 14in
will all holes for fuel tank brakets and every other hole be still staped into the
two chassis

[Jason Linders]

Now i am with you Tony all i really need is the rear

[ccooperaus]

Hello. Where in Qld are you. Have a F15A cab/chassis with 10.5x16 tyres. helper springs on rear axle. On Gold Coast. Charlie.

[Jason Linders]

Hi Charlie i live near toowoomba.
so not really that far

just sent PM

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Jason Linders

will all holes for fuel tank brakets and every other hole be still staped into the two chassis

Yes, they used a common stamping jig for ease of production. The result being that all F60S and F60L chassis have rivet holes for F15A and FGT fuel tank brackets and midsection crossmembers.

Edit: The above does not apply for Cab 12 chassis. Evidently production had not yet been standardized.