2009 at the Hammond Barn - Page 4

Col Tigwell · #91 21-04-09, 04:54

I really enjoy watching all your efforts, its guys like you stop the history of the world going back to dust and into the ground.

I also note with keen interest that you have troops in reserve and under training and ready to take over when your bones just cannot answer the call.

Next time you have photos you are posting, can you post some of the children from base reserve, I am sure I am not the only one who enjoys watching them grow up.

Best of luck with the latest four wheel baby, many people I am sure appreciate your efforts.

Regards

Col

RHClarke · #92 27-04-09, 02:32

Saturday: Bob and Grant (along with a neighbour) cut wood. Not satisfied that they had worked up enough sweat they then removed the front axle from the Dodge ambulance...
Sunday: After some shelter repairs (we had high winds on Saturday afternoon), Bob worked on some welding while I tinkered with the accelerator linkage for the 45 HUP. Come to learn that the transplanted 235 and the original linkage are not compatible - when I moved the gas pedal the engine side arm slightly tapped the fuel pump sight glass and it was rude enough to shatter. It would appear that I will have to use the non-sight glass fuel pump... I also played with the light pots for the 45. There seems to be a variety of pots available, but we were able to find a set that wasn't too rusty or bent up.

Still no mosquitoes!!!! Still no roll out...maybe next weekend...

maple_leaf_eh · #93 27-04-09, 04:20

Did Guy Vapeur choose his choce of canvas? I will need some sewing on M38A1 side curtains and doors.

Phil Waterman · #94 27-04-09, 16:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by RHClarke

Saturday: ......

Still no mosquitoes!!!! Still no roll out...maybe next weekend...

Hi Rob

I can send you up a box of black flies and mosquitoes? Do you want them in separate boxes or just one large box.

We went from having cold weather to 91 in three days so the black flies hatched out all at once and the mosquitoes are starting to hatch.

Cheers Phil

Keith Webb · #95 27-04-09, 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Waterman

Hi Rob

I can send you up a box of black flies and mosquitoes? Do you want them in separate boxes or just one large box.

We went from having cold weather to 91 in three days so the black flies hatched out all at once and the mosquitoes are starting to hatch.

Cheers Phil

We've just got rid of ours, thank goodness! You can keep them to yourselves to enjoy all Spring and Summer.

Phil Waterman · #96 27-04-09, 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith Webb

We've just got rid of ours, thank goodness! You can keep them to yourselves to enjoy all Spring and Summer.

Hi Keith-

Just came in from out side another hot day, bugs are getting bigger so instead of boxing them up and sending out to you, pointed a swarm towards Australia they should arrive in a couple days under their own power.

Cheers Phil

Gunner · #97 01-05-09, 16:51

Rob:

Finally able to find some MLU time for me-self!!!

Congrats on the acquisition... you may now style yourself; "HUP Bookender": the prototype and one of the last ones made! Wow!

With Brian holding the lifelong title of "HUP Meister", perhaps we should call you, "Unter HUP Meister, or perhaps "Stafs Feld HUP Meister".

Looking forward to seeing the wee beasties side by each!

from sunny Kenya!

Mike

RHClarke · #98 05-05-09, 02:29

We all know that...but what I meant was that Bob enjoyed the company of visitors this weekend past. Bob may post some info on this later.

On Sunday I pretty much had the barn to myself. The next step in the HUP restoration process was the refurbishing and fitting of the headlight pots (or pans if you wish). The original pots for my HUP were in sad shape, but there now seems to be plenty of spare HUP parts around, so I cleaned up and painted a pair of replacements.

Clockwise from top left - replacement pot (prior to clean up and painting), finished opening, end result and clips installed:

While the freshly painted pots dried in the warm breeze (which kept Phil's bugs down to a minimum), I opened the gasket kit for the pots, which I got via Grant. I think he ordered the kits from Jim Carters. The gaskets fit perfectly and the kit included new fast nuts/clips and odd metal screws that had a weird slot pattern. Bob stopped by and we put the roto-tiller onto the tractor - part of his "honey-do" list. After that task, he inspected my work and indicated that the screws were "secure" screws that required a special bit. I found some normal screws in the barn and fitted both pots to the nose.

The trouble with the fuel pump sight glass continued. I test fit a non sight glass fuel pump to the block and it did not want to fit properly. Can't say why...even if it fit there would still be interference from the linkage arm. So, I took the arm into the shop for some grinding, but came to the realization that I had to shift the whole mechanism to the right about 1/8th inch (the lugs are quite "delicate" and did not offer too much room for filing). Next weekend, I'll cut off the existing mounting lugs and weld them so that I get the necessary clearance.

To finish the morning off with a small victory, I found two hold downs and mounted them to the nose.

I like the results and remain encouraged about the spring roll out...

cmperry4 · #99 05-05-09, 04:29

- and I was calling those things headlight baskets. I got all the new bits for mine, found one of them dinged, however the heck that would have happened. Cleaning up and reinstalling them is one of my next jobs when I get back at it. Got a fence to build, though.

RHClarke · #**100** 06-05-09, 00:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunner

Rob: Congrats on the acquisition... you may now style yourself; "HUP Bookender": the prototype and one of the last ones made! Wow! With Brian holding the lifelong title of "HUP Meister", perhaps we should call you, "Unter HUP Meister, or perhaps "Stafs Feld HUP Meister".
Looking forward to seeing the wee beasties side by each! Mike

Gunner,

Good to hear from you. I suspect you have been prowling the local area for rusted steel hulks (and, one might presume, doing the MTAP thing). When is your RTU in Canada?

I bought the prototype for the express purpose of having two restored (eventually) "bookend" HUPs. One pre-production prototype and one of the last girls from the one of the last production runs.

The long term plan includes acquisition and restoration of a 42, 43, and 44 HUP. Shhhh! Don't tell the wife! But if you do, we will serve goat for your dinner in your honour...

RHClarke · #**101** 12-05-09, 23:07

While conducting the "pre-firing" checks, I noted with chagrin that a leak had developed on the front of the engine block. I pulled the rad (again) and spotted the trouble. The water pump was weeping at the lower right side bolt. I pulled the water pump (again) and the stain on the block confirmed that there was a problem.

It seems that there was a leak between the water pump housing and backing plate - the rust on the block started below the pump housing, and so I removed the backing plate (again). I think I will go with a thicker gasket between both the housing, backing plate and the block. I will also check flatness and the torque specs.

Anyone have a similar problem, and if you used some, did leak sealer work?

Phil Waterman · #**102** 12-05-09, 23:35

Yup had the same problem on the `1953 216 engine that is in my C60L Pattern 12 and also had similar problem with both the 235 and the 261 on first assembly.

My problem I think came from assembling engines with gasket coated with silicon gasket cement. One case was not being quick enough get it assembled and bolted down and or old gasket cement. The other was not really having the cement and all the parts above 60 degrees. On the 261 when I pulled it apart you could see areas where the cement just had not bonded.

Fortunately in all three cases the problems showed up during the test stand running not after the engines were in the truck with the radiator in the way.

Now I clean the surfaces with a buffing pad on the air grinder (not sanding disk) degrease with brake cleaner coat the gaskets assemble tight evenly then leave alone for 24 - 48 hours. I've never had good luck using the silicone gasket stuff on something I have to run right away. For field repairs I use Peratex non-hardening.

Bob Carriere · #**103** 13-05-09, 05:49

....Rob did you have any sealer like plumber cement on that bolt thread that went into the block.... maybe the pump is fine and it is just a bolt leaking....

On a lighter note...... I used the rolling C15a frame to actually pull a M101a trailer since the tractor was tied up with a rototiller on the back.....

worked nice....but..... it seems that the pintle / ring sizes have changed over the years..... the trailer ring was a very tight fit on the CMP pintle and had a bithc of a time removing it..... unfortunetaly was alone so have no pictures.

Over the weekend will need to do photos and measure the difference between CMP trailer rings and M101a circa 1953 trailer ring....

Was this a pure coincidence or have others expereinced the same thing..?

Bob C.

Grant Bowker · #**104** 13-05-09, 12:12

Bob, was the truck/trailer combination on uneven ground? CMP trailers had lunette eyes that were able to swivel to allow for rough ground (and fixed, except for slop in the spring mounts, tow hooks). The US standard was the other way around, fixed lunette and swiveling hook. Just for fun, did you measure the ID of the CMP tow eyes compared to the US standard to see how different the fit is? I know that when I towed the red frame around with my 10,000 pound rated hook the fit was quite loose. The CMP hook has always struck me as oversized for its rated load.

Normally people think of the problems of having both able to swivel (the whole hitch can end up upside down) but with a reasonably close fit between hook and eye to reduce slop in the hookup, uneven ground can cause binding. To avoid this most modern pintle setups (at laeast the light weight ones) have some built in slop and as a result, some people criticize them for being a rough tow.

Mike Timoshyk · #**105** 13-05-09, 12:46

Rob....I have a couple of Double Sheave jobs on my rig....no leaks so far...

Myke in Ford country

Oh ya....and I got some spare chain....

RHClarke · #**106** 13-05-09, 17:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Timoshyk

Oh ya....and I got some spare chain....

Myke, Good one. Thanks for the offer, but I am sure that you will make more use of it than me...once I get rolling, that is...

RHClarke · #**107** 13-05-09, 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Carriere

...Rob did you have any sealer like plumber cement on that bolt thread that went into the block.... maybe the pump is fine and it is just a bolt leaking...Bob C.

Bob, There may have been some silicone on the end of the bolt, but nothing else was added. I suspect you are correct given the rust stain location. I will cut new gaskets and put the goo to the block and gaskets and I will add some of the recommended plumber's dope...

Bob Carriere · #**108** 13-05-09, 21:09

... we run a tap in the thread and similarly a die with the bolt before we goop them up..... or use new bolts.... and lock washers.....

Lots of proper gasket material around in the barn......

Bob C.

Bob Carriere · #**109** 13-05-09, 21:19

Last Saturday, being wet, Grant and I jacked up the C15a frame and did a brake adjustment on the beast.

Pedal had gone soft over the Winter. woerked according to the manual by raising all four wheels....... even ran the engine to see if they braked evenly.

Had a persisting problem with the front wheel cylinder not releasing properly...

Off came the wheel.... cylinder removed and checked for rust or dirt..... cleaned and re-installed....... voila.... except the brass junction block kept leaking ever so much..... tried various size and thickness of copper gaskets.... filed some burrs on the brass facings.... in all we assembled and reassembled about 5 times..... last one was lucky and it stopped leaking.....

I now have good brakes ....but.... still require one good pump to get a hard pedal........ I am asking too much of the old CMP......

We adjusted the lower cams and center snail cams on all four wheels and bleed each corner extensively....... why is it soft... I mean why is the brake pedal still soft to the first pump....... ???

We are talking SS sleeved master cyl. .... 4 new wheel cyl... new linings and arced drum to match lining profile....running synthetic brake fluid...

Do we need to bleed again.....?

Comments / suggestions welcomed......

BooBee

Phil Waterman · #**110** 13-05-09, 21:57

Hi Bob

Don't know what the problem is but none of my trucks have to have the peddle pumped to get peddle. Never have had that problem, peddle is always at the same spot. About 1-2 inch free travel on the HUP and a little bit more for the other two trucks with boosters.

With all the care you have put into braking system it is hard to think of what could be causing the problem. But I'm almost willing to bet in the end it going to be something simple that everybody will say oh of course. Some place I've got some 1930s brake system books I'll try and find them and start thinking simple.

When you say "still require one good pump to get a hard pedal." do you mean each time the brake is applied or only when you first start to drive then it works OK?

Only consistent brake problem I have had is with my HUP after it has sat for a week or so in damp weather, then the left rear wheel will grab. I've pulled the drum a couple of times, the only thing I have ever found is a light rust on the drum face. Now I know to drag the brakes for a moment under power and it goes away. None of the other drums ever do this.

Cheers Phil

Bob Carriere · #**111** 14-05-09, 19:03

Hi Phil......

It seems that each time I use the brakes it seems to need one fullpump before it starts getting what I would escribe as a good hard feel 1 /1/2 from rest.

In talking with Grant last night...... when we removed and reinstalled the driver's side front wheel cylinder.... we did bleed the front wheels each time.... but ... maybe some air travelled into the rear circuit......

We will have another crack at it this weekend...... Grant as some kind of
"power bleeder" device that we will attempt to fit on the CMP.....

You are right it is probably something very simple...... like an air bubble trapped in high/low section of the circuit that is just moving back and forth but never gets bleed out completely.....

Stay tuned and thanks for all you time and effort....

Bob C

S LATHERON · #**112** 14-05-09, 23:40

Has the MASTER CYLINDER got any adjustment on the pushrod. I had similar problems on a Long Wheelbase Land rover.
Traced the problem to the push rod on the Master Cylinder being to far into the Cylinder. This has the effect of reducing the amount of fluid compressed at first stroke.Stripped Master Cylinder down, Cleaned all moving parts and re assembled making sure that the Piston was as close to the Rubber boot at the back of the Cylinder as possible.
Brake actuation improved greatly having a full charge of the fluid pushed through the whole system at first push.
Also if the Piston is to far forward at the start of its operation there is the danger of it not being fully retracted when you remove your foot from the brake pedal.The Piston covers the return port. The fluid in the system cannot return to the Cylinder Resevoir properley and you can end up with brakes binding and overheating.
Does the Master Cylinder top / filler have a vent hole to let Air into the Reservoir to replace Fluid that has been used.Try brake actuation with the cap OFF and then On see if it makes any difference.
good luck and let us know how you go with this problem.

Walde Libera · #**113** 14-05-09, 23:52

Bob

Had similar problem on my CGT; with booster and silicon brake fluid.

Leak issues were resolved but I was still not happy with pedal travel, almost hitting the floor. Certainly not safe or comfortable driving it.

So redid all 4 brake shoe adjustments, jacked up each wheel seperately and adjusted as tight as you can go and just enough back to free spin the wheel.
It is easy to get disoriented doing this job, as you are looking at a mirror image from the backing plate side.

The pedal is now hard came right up and is consistanly firm at a mid travel position.

Walde

Bob Carriere · #**114** 15-05-09, 03:42

Let me first deal with S. comments and suggestions....

I can remember if the CMP Chev Master Cyl. has a screwed adjustment.... remember doing just that on an old car some yeras back..... so you have given me something to look at..... it might also explain the dragging front axle cyl. that did not seem to release..... might explain quite a bit......

Grant to take note for this rainy Saturday....

Master Cyl cover does have a air hole and was placed on loosely just enough to prevent fluid form being squirted up from the reservoir while pumping.... but will check again with a blow gun to make sure it is vented.....

Walde...... yes we did have the truck on 4 axle stand and readjusted all four wheels to slight dragging.....using the small window slot on the brake drum allows to see the tight fit of both brake shoes.....

We may well do the whole process all over again if the rain is just preventing anyother activity......

We actually started the engine and engaged the gears to see the wheels spin.... and noticed that the differentials were working by spinning the less dragging wheel of each axle........ carefully applying the work boot tot he spinning axle usually caused the far side to start spinning.....

I am gambling on push rod adjustment for the moment.... or the overall linkage system for the brakes with all the clevis and adjustments.

BUt..... I also plan to do a full bleeding cycle on all four wheels again..... thank God Grant is very patient and very exacting in such an exercise. He calls it gaining experience for when we do his cab 13.......

Really appreciate your help...... don't be shy to comment.... like Phil said it may be the most simple thing that we have overlooked and need to be reminded.

We are learning all the way.

Boob

Bob Carriere · #**115** 15-05-09, 04:06

Just a quick follow up......

The typical Dodge M37 trailer... the M101a lunette is 6 1/4 inch across compared to 5 or 5 3/16 on two different CMP trailers...... the cross section of the ring/lunette is 2 1/16 for the M101a compared to 1 1/14 to 1 3/8 for the CMP trailers......

That implies that the M101a lunette is a very tight fit on a CMP pintle..... almost to the point of eliminating any typical rattling associated with pintle towing.

I have attached a hand drawn sketch of the cross section, viewed from above, of both pintles which have noticeable differences......

The CMP design is such that the lunette curve of the ring fits much tighter than the reverse open M37 style..... and they call it progress. In the CMP model any braking or decellaration would be better captured by the curved feature of the pintle....

Bob

Bob Carriere · #**116** 19-05-09, 15:22

A big Hammond thank you to S Latheron........ Nothing like a 3000km diagnostic......

We removed the front floor section for easier access and turned the push rod 1 1/2 turn..... re-assembled..... and voila...... good brakes....... by shortening the push rod I assume that the return hole now clears the piston cup and the pedal gets hard after an inch or so......

Drove in the back field...... brakes will easily stall the engine and does not require pumping... amazing how tight the turning radius of the C15a can be.... feel like a large Jeep.......

.....to Phil Waterman... you were right it is always the most obvious that we overlook.......

Now if only someone could give me a solution to the spot welder....

Thanks again guys..... were would we be without the MLU....

BooBee

S LATHERON · #**117** 19-05-09, 23:30

3000 MILES AT 150 CDN DOLLARS or A CONTAINER LOAD OF F60 BITS

JOKING OF COURSE.!!!!

Glad that the cause of the problem has been found and rectified. I did forget to ask if there is a lock nut on the push rod!
My Landrover brakes started out ok but I had not pinched the lock nut up tight in the master Cylinder on the push rod. The rod went out of adjustment. the brake fluid got trapped in the lines after a run down some hills. Brakes locked on in city centre. LOW Four wheel drive to lurch out of traffic lane. I was in the middle of 3 lanes on an up hill section when the brakes locked up. 1 wrecked 1/2 shaft end and 20 minutes trying to get moving, Finally released brake union and let fluid out onto car park [ 30 years ago] Statue of limitations applies Guv.
Moved to safer spot and went through checking for cause at my leisure. Laid on ground under drivers floor and used hands to operate Brake pedal lever, soon saw and heard problem as the system hydrauliced in about 2 strokes of pedal, Removed clevis as you did, Wound push rod to reduce rod length, REMEMBERED TO TIGHTEN LOCK NUT and re attached clevis.The brake actuation was much more positive. I also added a second return spring to the linkage to ensure the pedal fully returned on time every time.
The half shaft was changed a week or so later as it had broken off at Hub end,
Regards Stephen

Bob Carriere · #**118** 20-05-09, 02:37

Hi Stephen

Takes so little to sort out some problems.

...and I should have known better..... statute of limitation applies.....

In the 70s I offered to clean up a friends driveway while he was away in FLorida for Xmas..... using an old M43 Dodge ambulance..... it would work for a while then the brakes would lock up..... with 12 inches of wet rainy snow to clean and not wanting it to turn to cement whenit froze I finished the job by repeatedly crawling underneath and releasing teh pressure from teh bleeder valves and adding more fluid.

Got the job done....soaked to the skin in icy water......and spent New Years in bed with total deafness, ear infection and sore throat......

The owner laughed at me for not re adjusting the master cylinder rod... a new Mc had just been installed before he left for vacation..... you would think I owul dhave remembered....DUH !!!!!!

There are NO lock nuts on the CMP MC but there is a lock nut near the clevis which was loose and was promptly tighened. A new return spring may be in order as I am using a 1940 original.....

Thanks again for your insight..... wish you were closer!!!

Bob C.

RHClarke · #**119** 24-05-09, 01:34

A man's fancy turns to ... HUPs!

The day started off somewhat gloomy, but it quickly heated up at the barn. This was the first weekend where the mosquitoes showed up in force. Grant and I figure that we knocked off at least two air wings each of the nasty little pests.

Grant worked over a set of 20 inch rims, Bob fulfiled his honeydo list and I played with the HUP in preparation for its roll out scheduled for today. A quick check of of the cooling system and some electrical trouble shooting, later, the HUP fired up. I still need to connect the vacuum lines and do some general lubrication and tightening, but the engine sounded OK. I have some excessive rattling in the head, but everything else seems to work alright.

Bob heard the HUP's purring and joined us for the event. Unfortunately, I forgot my camcorder, but Bob captured part of the event on his digital camera. The video can be seen here:

http://s143.photobucket.com/albums/r...t=HPIM8909.flv

"Whoo-hoo" sums it up for me. Grant and I then headed out to lunch at Mike's Place in Hammond. After lunch, I recruited Bob to do some gorilla welding. He was kind enough to weld my POW cans onto the arse of the HUP. I must say, the old girl is starting to look like her factory photos. Thanks to Bob for the welding and to Grant for the assist in getting the HUP on the road.

The rest of the afternoon was spent fiddling with the 20 inch rims, some general puttering around and chatting about upcoming road trips. Bob and Grant are hitting the road tomorrow for a secret rendezvous somewhere north of the city...all will be revealed.

It was a great HUP-Day at the barn. After leaving some grafitti on the barn doors, I headed back to the city for dinner and a boys night in for hockey.

cmperry4 · #**120** 24-05-09, 05:25

Nice to see the HUP progress. I have dimensions and a basic drawing for the rear oil can racks and plan to have my brother brake the bits up for me in his shop. Remind me to bug you about specs and dimensions for the underneath tool box - Something else far down the road, but still planning to do on the thing.
Hoping to make some progress after next week, during a couple weeks of vacation, but 600 feet of log rail fence have to come first, and girlfriend is also taking vacation time, so some activities more to her liking will also have to come into the picture.